KCRag Forum

Because I suspect* committing local funds to a first-wave expansion is exactly the kind of thing that puts you higher on the list for federal funds in the future. Even if the Chastain thing were to pass and get built to whatever extent it could be, it would still leave most people and destinations unserved and need vast additional expansion to even begin to fill that gap. Just get it done now to the furthest extent we can, and if/when there is a more favorable federal climate, hit them up to help with the next expansion, or commuter rail or whatever. It would, I think, be foolish to take the proverbial foot off the proverbial gas pedal just because federal funds may not be available. The momentum is there, why squander it?

That said, it may also be foolish to vote YES on anything in any way tied to Chastain, but that's a whole different discussion.

*Is this true or am I just making shit up?

You're right. The Chastain plan is going to need a federal match anyway to ever do the whole thing. Might was well use the tax source to make up the streetcar's match and keep things moving.

Yes, but if you spend all the local taxes first without the match, there will have to be another tax for the Feds to match to finish the plan. The federal government isn't going to match money already spent years previous.

So if we're going to do this, can we start a discussion on how to actually make it good for people that live downtown?

I rarely take it because it's awful. I tried to take it today because I had to get to union station. I outwalked it again. In what world is a streetcar a functioning form of transportation when you can walk faster than it? I got to the first stop and it said 8mins, next 6 mins, next 4 mins, etc. I kept looking behind me to see if it was coming, but nope.

I finally stopped before truman just to see. And it said arriving. And as it pulled up, the fucking light turned red to red someone jwalk behind it. So all of the people sat there looking at the streetcar, waiting for it to come, at red light that no one was using.

If it passes...

My thought is to spend some of it and have the whole plan engineered and "shovel ready." The first phase of studies are mostly done for the cooridors covered so could move onto actual engineering quickly.

Since legally the chastain plan and the streetcar plans can overlap as described the best way to keep things moving is to fund to UMKC from this bucket and go from there. This would reduce the amount of match needed to do the rest of the plan because you have less to build that needs a match. I can imagine aiming for NKC and northland county money as part of the whole picture. One corridor is to go to the stadiums, so could aim for Jackson county to help here, since this advances the commuter cooridor plans.

Going to the feds for a smaller match seems like a winning plan.

WoodDraw wrote:So if we're going to do this, can we start a discussion on how to actually make it good for people that live downtown?

I rarely take it because it's awful. I tried to take it today because I had to get to union station. I outwalked it again. In what world is a streetcar a functioning form of transportation when you can walk faster than it? I got to the first stop and it said 8mins, next 6 mins, next 4 mins, etc. I kept looking behind me to see if it was coming, but nope.

I finally stopped before truman just to see. And it said arriving. And as it pulled up, the fucking light turned red to red someone jwalk behind it. So all of the people sat there looking at the streetcar, waiting for it to come, at red light that no one was using.

Thn system runs over 125 hours per week and you are likely describing the worst 5 hours of the week.

It's been covered before, the fix for the worst time is the extra trains that are on order. The math backs it up

flyingember wrote: Going to the feds for a smaller match seems like a winning plan.

Ok, but you do realize that going for a match for just part of it and fully funding the begin on our own means, either:

1. A higher tax rate.
2. A longer tax term, or
3. A smaller build out, right?

beautyfromashes wrote:

flyingember wrote: Going to the feds for a smaller match seems like a winning plan.

Ok, but you do realize that going for a match for just part of it and fully funding the begin on our own means, either:

1. A higher tax rate.
2. A longer tax term, or
3. A smaller build out, right?

Not when you actually read what I wrote.

I was saying to find more sources, not just federal.

Can anyone explain this picture from KC Lightrail Twitter.

"YES on Question 2 this Tuesday for more bus & #KCstreetcar! Here's what you could build (with existing TDDs & add'l $ from KCK/NKC)"

flyingember wrote: I was saying to find more sources, not just federal.

Sure isn't going to come from Greitens or the State of Missouri! What other sources did you have in mind?

flyingember wrote:

WoodDraw wrote:So if we're going to do this, can we start a discussion on how to actually make it good for people that live downtown?

I rarely take it because it's awful. I tried to take it today because I had to get to union station. I outwalked it again. In what world is a streetcar a functioning form of transportation when you can walk faster than it? I got to the first stop and it said 8mins, next 6 mins, next 4 mins, etc. I kept looking behind me to see if it was coming, but nope.

I finally stopped before truman just to see. And it said arriving. And as it pulled up, the fucking light turned red to red someone jwalk behind it. So all of the people sat there looking at the streetcar, waiting for it to come, at red light that no one was using.

Thn system runs over 125 hours per week and you are likely describing the worst 5 hours of the week.

It's been covered before, the fix for the worst time is the extra trains that are on order. The math backs it up

I literally live right next to it.

beautyfromashes wrote:Yes, but if you spend all the local taxes first without the match, there will have to be another tax for the Feds to match to finish the plan. The federal government isn't going to match money already spent years previous.

I don't think this is the case. If Chastain needs $500 million for his whole plan, we're not going to need more because we completed part of the plan.

The feds encourage cities to spend local money on transit, not sit on it.

beautyfromashes wrote:

flyingember wrote: I was saying to find more sources, not just federal.

Sure isn't going to come from Greitens or the State of Missouri! What other sources did you have in mind?

State money could come for a bridge crossing portion. If it uses the HOA bridge need to reconfigure it so help to change the road layout and beef it up could be realistic. Same with redoing the N Oak and I-29 bridge which is too low, and hasn't been redesigned since the 1960s. Basically get help with train positive projects, not the train itself

NKC has a transit tax on their books, but not being collected.

I picture clay and platte putting a little in because a bridge crossing makes commuter rail to places like Liberty doable

Gladstone if there's a chance rail can get that far north.

Jackson county wants to do commuter rail so I could see them helping with the portion that follows the rock island cooridor to the stadiums, maybe even bundling that into commuter line funding

ldai_phs wrote:Can anyone explain this picture from KC Lightrail Twitter.

"YES on Question 2 this Tuesday for more bus & #KCstreetcar! Here's what you could build (with existing TDDs & add'l $ from KCK/NKC)"

It's not a direct match to the project, it's closer to a MARC proposed transit cooridor map where you connect priority transit cooridors to downtown

It's a fine map because it's a reasonable way to sell the "something for everyone" approach this project takes and it would advance those goals

http://www.marc.org/Transportation/Spec ... ogram/Maps

flyingember wrote:

ldai_phs wrote:Can anyone explain this picture from KC Lightrail Twitter.

"YES on Question 2 this Tuesday for more bus & #KCstreetcar! Here's what you could build (with existing TDDs & add'l $ from KCK/NKC)"

It's not a direct match to the project, it's closer to a MARC proposed transit cooridor map where you connect priority transit cooridors to downtown

It's a fine map because it's a reasonable way to sell the "something for everyone" approach this project takes and it would advance those goals

http://www.marc.org/Transportation/Spec ... ogram/Maps

Is the solid color routes what could be easily built, then dotted routes buses? Or is dotted routes future rail expansions?

ldai_phs wrote:Is the solid color routes what could be easily built, then dotted routes buses? Or is dotted routes future rail expansions?

dotted routes are electric bus connections from rail. the ballot language doesn't specify the terminus for each rail line, so this is a decent assumption on how far you could go with federal funding for all extensions and additional funding mechanisms for KCK and NKC.

nothing on this map is in conflict with the smartmoves regional transit plan or the city's previous streetcar expansion work.

No matter what can we also run track right through Sherry DeJanes backyard? That would be glorious.

JBmidtown wrote:No matter what can we also run track right through Sherry DeJanes backyard? That would be glorious.

Sure, why not! She's squatting on government property!

Curious, Dave, was she one of your ballots that were determined to be invalid? I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to vote even though she doesn't live in the district.

ldai_phs wrote:Can anyone explain this picture from KC Lightrail Twitter.

"YES on Question 2 this Tuesday for more bus & #KCstreetcar! Here's what you could build (with existing TDDs & add'l $ from KCK/NKC)"

I like how this has a separate route through downtown from the streetcar, down what I assume is Oak (keeps it off Grand so Sprint Center events can still close Grand Ave). The Main ST streetcar route is far too slow to be part of the greater light rail line IMO. Just have stops at city market, sprint center, and crown center. You can transfer to the streetcar if you want in between stops.