Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

[aknowledgeableperson]

The tax for light rail starts in 2009.  Unless some City programs are cut big time the City will not have the funds to do much with this until then. 
Engineering has to be done.
Decisions have to be made on what part to be started first.
A political process to change the route if it is changed.
Construction plans drawn up.
Construction time.
And other needed steps, let alone the process to secure any matching funds from other political bodies.

[ShowMeKC]

Most of those don't take more than 2 years to do. And they don't always have to cut funds... Where do you think the 3-4 billion dollars in DT redevelopment is coming from? I know much is from private developers, but the city does have to pays some.

No offense akp, but I'd rather hear from someone who has a degree in things like this.

[KCPowercat]

Don't worry ShowMe....this was his same argument for the sprint center.  Just let the old man be...sitting yelling at squirrels.

[ShowMeKC]

I remember that KCP, that is why I'm so much of a skeptic to his comments.
But I thought it'd just be rude to ignore him when he was talking to me trying answering questions.

It's not that I don't like you akp, I just don't agree with you, and don't agree with the way you've handled issues in the past. I can see why you feel the way you do, but I definitely don't agree with it.

[kcmetro]

The ROW needed for LTR is a fraction of that needed for a freeway, so this thing shouldn't take too long to plan and get construction underway. It's not like we'll need to knock down blocks and blocks of housing. If they put it along streets, then it's perfect. The only thing that would slow it up is if they needed to tunnel underground for part of it, and I don't see that happening.

[aknowledgeableperson]

It looks like in Dallas there was an election in 1983 and the line opened in 1996.
13 years

In Minneapolis the period is from 1985 to 2004.
19 years

Not sure about the start time in Denver but the date could be 1969 and opening in 1994.
25 years

So given Dallas time frame light rail will operate in KCMO in 2019.  Given Denver's, it will open in 2031.  My guess is KCMO will have light rail sometime between these years.

[anniewarbucks]

What I can not figure out about projects all over the country. When a major sports team goes to the final game the shirt and cap manufacturers have both sets ready to go when the team whoever it is wins the contest. But in the outside world when we vote on an issue like the light Rail initiatiave, it takes months or even years before we see a speck of dirt turned. The day after the election the bulldozers and crews should be on the jobsite ready to go. no questions asked. The permits pulled, the homeowners notified etc. We see this time and time again in business, public projects, and even politics where it takes time to see the results. Come on start the project the day after the election.

[ShowMeKC]

akp, you refuse to take into account the status of KC's economy, and the fact that the idea of light rail has been around for years, even though it hasn't been approved.

[Burton]

It looks like in Dallas there was an election in 1983 and the line opened in 1996.
13 years

In Minneapolis the period is from 1985 to 2004.
19 years

Not sure about the start time in Denver but the date could be 1969 and opening in 1994.
25 years

So given Dallas time frame light rail will operate in KCMO in 2019.  Given Denver's, it will open in 2031.  My guess is KCMO will have light rail sometime between these years.

KC has been doing LRT and even heavy rail transit studies since 1970.

[KCPowercat]

Good think we got started then.

Any sources on your numbers AKP?

[aknowledgeableperson]

The status of KC's economy has nothing to do with it.  And light rail being around for years probably applied to these cities also.  Or do you believe that nothing was done for light rail before the elections in those cities?

You refuse to take into account that until the tax funds are collected starting in 2009, not now, and it is unlikely that there will be a big pot of funds to pay for expenses until then.  Or do you expect the vendor's to work for no pay until then?
You refuse to take into account that the route that will be finally selected may be different than the one on the ballot.  Another voting process is very likely.
You refuse to take into account that it will take time to get matching funds from the other government sources.
And on and on.

Just think.  What was the amount of time from when the vote on the Sprint Center was passed until it opens in the Fall of 2007.  And the light rail project is way more complex and so much larger than that.

[ddw334umkc]

How long will it take the engineers to draft up the blueprints?

[aknowledgeableperson]

KC has been doing LRT and even heavy rail transit studies since 1970.

So.  Not for this route though.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Good think we got started then.

Any sources on your numbers AKP?

From looking at Buton's post at 11:14
Dallas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Area_Rapid_Transit

Denver: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_T ... n_District

MPLS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiawatha_Line

[ShowMeKC]

akp, you are ignoring the fact that the 3/8 cent sales tax extension won't be the only source of funding. Besides, like I said, no offense, but I'm not going to listen to you. You ruined your chances of influencing me at all back at the arena issue, and you certainly aren't helping your side now.

I'm just going to ignore you from now on, because you aren't going to budge, and I'm not going to be convinced by you. So I'm jsut going to take KCP's advice and let you "yell at the squirrels"

BTW, I was typing a reply, but deleted it, realizing you wouldn't care anyways.

You have a similar opinion to the old people in the rural areas of this city. "We can't do it, were Kansas City" "I don't think it'll happen, at least for a long time because were Kansas City" All of whom, while I respect, I don't listen to on these issues.

[kcmetro]

How long will it take the engineers to draft up the blueprints?

Not sure, but that should be one of the quickest things to get done.

[Burton]

So.  Not for this route though.

True, not for this exact route. But I've seen several MARC studies that looked at many different routes, all followed the same general North-South spine. There is plenty of research and planning that has already taken place, though while dated, could be very valuable now.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Most of those don't take more than 2 years to do. And they don't always have to cut funds... Where do you think the 3-4 billion dollars in DT redevelopment is coming from? I know much is from private developers, but the city does have to pays some.

No offense akp, but I'd rather hear from someone who has a degree in things like this.

The city funds mainly come from bonds issued to support the projects.  Funds to pay for the bonds come from the taxes generated from the projects.  Don't forget, it took some time for Council support for many of these projects and the bonds being voted for approval.

How long do you think it will take for the City to receive Federal and State funds as called for in the ballot issue?  And it is not a slam dunk that the City will receive any matching funds at this point.

And, of course, there is an assumption being made that this is now a #1 priority matter for the City.  It is a hot item now but will it have staying power?

And what kind of degree in what subject are you thinking about is needed?

[aknowledgeableperson]

Do you think KC will have a different experience than this?  From Dallas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Area_Rapid_Transit

Before the 1983 election, DART had a plan for 160 miles of rail. After the election, the plan was pared down to 147 miles when Duncanville, Grand Prairie and Mesquite, who would have had rail lines, didn't opt to join the agency. DART chose light rail transit as it's primary mode of rail transportation in 1984. The plan was pared down again to 93 miles before the 1988 bond vote. After the vote, the agency again pared down the regional rail system to 66 miles. That plan would be amended after the starter system finished to the current plan that keeps evolving today.

And:
The year 1990 was a turning point for the agency when DART broke ground on its light rail system. The light rail system began service on time and on budget in June 1996

And:
The 20 mile starter system opened on June 14, 1996,

Yes, KC may not have a 20 mile starter system but we are a long way from even starting construction. 

[ddw334umkc]

If KCATA can come together with MARC and MoDOT,  expect this light rail project to be congruous with the I-29/35 expansion as this may ultimately affect MoDot's final Paseo Bridge design.  I would imagine that they will design for the train to travel down the middle of the freeway.  In retrospect, the Bruce R. Watkins Drive was originally designed to accomodate light rail down the huge median, according to one of the senior engineers.