I just think the city should concentrate on making urban KCMO the place to be again. Continue to get some density back in the city and not worry about rail to far flung locations especially KCI.
I agree. I don't think far flung regional rail accomplishes the goal. That's why my initial ask was about urban streetcar.
But if we're saying streetcar in the urban core needs to densify some area's first before expansion (which is fine) then I think our next big urban project needs to start being highway capping and removals. In terms of public projects, we already got the airport, a starter transit line, the new bridge, and the Royals will run their own course.
I think the next big focus has to be the highway removals. I really think is by far the most beneficial thing we can do now.
Id call it less of a circle and more of an out and back- It is proven this is a better argument alignment because its easier for people to know where to get on/off the discussion.
I agree with the idea of concentrating on making urban KCMO the best it can be and build from the "heart of the Metro" outward. Fix those issues and spur development there and it has a ripple effect out or even better those in the outer suburbs will have a high to desire to be connected to that vibrant inner core. That's really how you are going to see it prosper over time.
The street car is what it is right now. Primarily a tourist attraction that does a nice job of connecting places and people along the route. It is transit by definition but not sure what the % of ridership is of transit vs. recreational use (ie riding it to entertainment destinations, etc.)
Not sure if expanding East into those Urban areas will change much. Perhaps increase ridership for ppl trying to get to work. But again I'm not sure what the numbers look like for current bus ridership for ppl coming downtown area for work. I do like the idea of going West down 39th street or servicing the KU MED area. I would think something of a spur to service Hospital hill area would be good and having it connected to main line for options into downtown.
The recent proposal of the development corridor from Independence to KC via Indp Ave and State Ave is intriguing. The electric BRT idea is neat, especially if it is a dedicated thing with right of way to make travel times quick.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:07 am
Is it kind of fitting that the streetcar thread seems to always go around and around in a circle?
Yes. But when Rag's been dead for two weeks, I decide to stir the pot in either streetcar, stadiums or airport so we atleast have something to talk about.
Linwood, Truman Rd are both worthless ideas. NOBODY walks or does business on these streets.
I understand that Northeast rejected the first expansion on Independence Avenue, but it is easily the most urban, pedestrian and retail packed east-west street we have in KC. Period. Truman west of Hardesty is a veritable wasteland and is nothing more than a highway in and out of downtown. Linwood would be an infinitely better route than Truman. But Independence Avenue is by far the best route. Is the Avenue bus ridership high? I think Northeast may vote differently now. Maybe I'm just hoping.
Karambit25 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:52 pm
Linwood, Truman Rd are both worthless ideas. NOBODY walks or does business on these streets.
I understand that Northeast rejected the first expansion on Independence Avenue, but it is easily the most urban, pedestrian and retail packed east-west street we have in KC. Period. Truman west of Hardesty is a veritable wasteland and is nothing more than a highway in and out of downtown. Linwood would be an infinitely better route than Truman. But Independence Avenue is by far the best route. Is the Avenue bus ridership high? I think Northeast may vote differently now. Maybe I'm just hoping.
The Ave has some of the highest ridership in the region by far. When I was in town recently the bus was still packed each time I used it. I actually gotta couple crazy ideas focused on Truman Rd, starting with turning it to a Blvd similar to what is happening to Colorado Blvd between North Hollywood and Pasadena.
Karambit25 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:52 pm
Linwood, Truman Rd are both worthless ideas. NOBODY walks or does business on these streets.
I understand that Northeast rejected the first expansion on Independence Avenue, but it is easily the most urban, pedestrian and retail packed east-west street we have in KC. Period. Truman west of Hardesty is a veritable wasteland and is nothing more than a highway in and out of downtown. Linwood would be an infinitely better route than Truman. But Independence Avenue is by far the best route. Is the Avenue bus ridership high? I think Northeast may vote differently now. Maybe I'm just hoping.
Would Truman have less push back to redevelopment?
Karambit25 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:52 pm
Linwood, Truman Rd are both worthless ideas. NOBODY walks or does business on these streets.
I understand that Northeast rejected the first expansion on Independence Avenue, but it is easily the most urban, pedestrian and retail packed east-west street we have in KC. Period. Truman west of Hardesty is a veritable wasteland and is nothing more than a highway in and out of downtown. Linwood would be an infinitely better route than Truman. But Independence Avenue is by far the best route. Is the Avenue bus ridership high? I think Northeast may vote differently now. Maybe I'm just hoping.
Would Truman have less push back to redevelopment?
Truman is basically an empty canvas for new development, so that's why it should be considered. That's quite a stretch that could be developed very close to downtown and it's wide enough to design something proper from the ground up (dedicated RoW, bike lanes, landscaping etc.).
I know it's a pipe dream for the most part and there are probably other corridors that need streetcar investment first, but I feel like Indep Ave, Linwood etc will get all stupid with the anti gentrification movement (which may kill Main street before it even gets a chance to really take off).
Truman has massive potential for sure. I think it would have to be developed as a mixed income corridor to appease the current residents who may fear gentrification.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:01 pm
I actually gotta couple crazy ideas focused on Truman Rd, starting with turning it to a Blvd similar to what is happening to Colorado Blvd between North Hollywood and Pasadena.
Truman should certainly be considered for rail and redevelopment in the long term. First of all, it's an insult to our former native president in its' present state. It needs to be revamped with more street trees, lane reductions, and rezoning into a lot more higher-density residential. Some sort of rail should be considered to redevelop it. Whether that is a streetcar, or a dedicated light rail line, I don't know. I think it could handle a faster, dedicated rail line with fewer stops.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:38 pm
It has the capacity to change dramatically with little effect to traffic and simultaneously be a far better pedestrian experience.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:38 pm
It has the capacity to change dramatically with little effect to traffic and simultaneously be a far better pedestrian experience.
Explain more detail on your idea please?
It would start with a simple Boulevard designation for Truman, exemption from parking minimums, and re zoning then focus on redevelopment of the remaining buildings to build momentum before building mixed use projects on the vacant lots. After the re population happens you created demand to bring back transit to Truman, either in the form of a streetcar or BRT, which is a great case to re do the streetscape, preferably with ROW, cycle track, widened sidewalks, street trees, bumpouts, raised crosswalks, trash cans, and proper seating weather for leisure or travel purpose. You could even consider a median with ornate lighting and give it a mini Paseo feel. I mean it seems possible and I really wanna work towards it in the near future.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:38 pm
It has the capacity to change dramatically with little effect to traffic and simultaneously be a far better pedestrian experience.
daGOAT wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:38 pm
It has the capacity to change dramatically with little effect to traffic and simultaneously be a far better pedestrian experience.
Explain more detail on your idea please?
It would start with a simple Boulevard designation for Truman, exemption from parking minimums, and re zoning then focus on redevelopment of the remaining buildings to build momentum before building mixed use projects on the vacant lots. After the re population happens you created demand to bring back transit to Truman, either in the form of a streetcar or BRT, which is a great case to re do the streetscape, preferably with ROW, cycle track, widened sidewalks, street trees, bumpouts, raised crosswalks, trash cans, and proper seating weather for leisure or travel purpose. You could even consider a median with ornate lighting and give it a mini Paseo feel. I mean it seems possible and I really wanna work towards it in the near future.
I think it's a great idea. Couldn't the same concept be done through a north loop boulevard and through Independence Ave?
daGOAT wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:38 pm
It has the capacity to change dramatically with little effect to traffic and simultaneously be a far better pedestrian experience.
This is what I have been proposing for Truman for years. I think a LRT from downtown to the TSC and on to Independence etc. Truman is the perfect connection. A developed Truman with LRT makes a ton of sense. And then it starts to make more sense to put the stadium in the vine District (but it would also help east village).
Do not make Truman a Blvd though. That brings in the parks department and then things get political.
This is what I have been proposing for Truman for years. I think a LRT from downtown to the TSC and on to Independence etc. Truman is the perfect connection. A developed Truman with LRT makes a ton of sense. And then it starts to make more sense to put the stadium in the vine District (but it would also help east village).
Do not make Truman a Blvd though. That brings in the parks department and then things get political.
This. Though I think the only problem with Truman Rd redevelopment is the fact I-70 right next to it.
Some Kansas Citians may consider that an amenity lol. It would probably inflate costs to properly soundproof but I believe if the Cityscape development pulled it off abutting I-35 it can happen.
