KCRag Forum

You aren't going to get many people to move when commute times in the KC Metro average around 20 or 30 minutes overall.

Where it becomes more problematic is when employees commute with a spouse who works nearby and maintains similar hours. If the job move takes them a reasonable distance from the commuting spouse, this requires the second spouse to also drive. This increases their costs to work, and reduces their take-home salary.

People tend to make housing location decisions based on their job location when they buy the house, but like Highland says, it's a big hassle to move. There are also tax implications if they were to move across the state line for some--especially if each spouse works in a different state. If kids are involved, there is also uprooting from schools.

KANSAS VS. KANSAS!

Perceptive Software to move from Shawnee to Lenexa City Center

The Lenexa Planning Commission is scheduled to review a proposal next week that calls for a four-story building and 540-stall parking garage, along with surface parking, to be located at the southwest corner of 87th Street Parkway and Renner Boulevard in the City Center development...

The proposed Perceptive Software project calls for $15.1 million in tax-increment financing assistance to be repaid by a portion of the additional taxes the development is expected to generate. The first office building would be completed in 2013, according to the application submitted to Lenexa.

$15 million to move six miles. Awesome.

KCMO vs KCMO

How much was H&R Block given to move 30 blocks within the same city? From one TIF project to another TIF project.

KCMax wrote:KANSAS VS. KANSAS!
$15 million to move six miles. Awesome.

That's $39.72 per inch.

chaglang wrote: That's $39.72 per inch.

And with that, folks, there is nothing left worth saying!

I'll call it a week.

How much was H&R Block given to move 30 blocks within the same city? From one TIF project to another TIF project.


Really? What has been built in Lenexa City Center? What has H&R
Block's move helped spur? Where the hell is Lenexa City Center? Is there anything there except more roads/freeways? I know you think H&R Block had no impact on P&L district, but what has Lenexa City Center done? What can people do in Lenexa City Center or within close proximity? Museums? Arenas?
Just curious.

Let's attract companies with our workers, not with subsidies

Makes two points - (1) offering infrastructure upgrades (transit, schools) will attract workers more than subsidies; and (2) subsidies should require job growth from those receiving subsidies.

I can only imagine how much worse P&L would be doing if H&R Block wasn't there with their hundreds of employees, and business lunches. Some of the H&R Block employees probably live in downtown apartments as well.

And, If I'm not mistaken, American Century took over the former H&R Block building on Main through expansion.

Putting highly skilled employees downtown is a long-range goal of rebuilding the health of the central business core. More people will live downtown if there are higher paying jobs that they can walk to from their apartments.

The TIF for H&R Block accomplishes that as well as other large investments like Sprint Center, the grocery store, movie theater, Copaken Stage, Midland, KC Live, the downtown library, a school, and PAC that creates a "value" district that attracts people with interests in entertainment and culture as well as a good job. A streetcar line will add to this overall investment. The Conservatory of Music and Dance will also add to this mix--if it pans out.

The H&R Block TIF was a strategic move to try and begin centralizing jobs in the central business district again, instead of having them spread all over the City in various retail cores. This also true for the Andrews McNeel Universal subsidy, and those for Populous and J.E. Dunn. Centralizing federal jobs also helps build this mix. It's stabilizing and maintaining the work force until downtown reaches a tipping point, and can survive on its' own merits.

People can criticize this investment, but it is really no different than spending $250 million on the Grandview Triangle rebuilding to deal with congestion from commuting workers into the central city from other suburban municipalities. In many ways, it's a better investment because it means less need to build highway and interchanges in the future if more people return to the core instead of living on the edge.

The maintenance of the downtown worker population is also important because companies will be much less likely to leave downtown if 40-50 percent live downtown or in nearby neighborhoods.

"Project Apple" is KCMO's attempt to lure Freightquote across State Line.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... 2012-06-25

What's it cost to ship an apple to MO? I guess we'll find out.

What a joke.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:

FangKC wrote:They are having to pay tens of thousands of dollars per worker to get companies to move a few miles.

Are they actually "paying"? What I mean, is money being taken from current revenue streams?
When the company is located in MO the KS residents will pay most of their income tax from their salary to MO, and of course the MO residents' income tax will also go to MO. Now the company shifts to KS. The KS residents' income tax (95%) goes from MO to the company so no pay from KS. For the MO residents their income tax (again 95%) goes to the company instead of MO so no pay from KS. The State of KS ends up with a 5% gain, the company gains, and MO loses.
Basically KS is giving up 95% of a future revenue stream. Compare that to a 50% give up with a TIF and 100% give up with a Super TIF.

Not saying KS isn't hurt in the future but at least the cost of the incentive comes from future "new" revenues so that the state does not see the full benefit of the jobs move.

I just don't understand how people say Missouri/KCMO should just sit back and let the jobs go to Kansas? Don't try any incentives to get the companies back. Missouri has actually won quite a few jobs over the past couple of years. If this continues where Missouri can go toe-to-toe, it's likely that Kansas would agree to a cease fire because it's readily apparent the only ones winning are the companies receiving incentives. The issue has been that Kansas has overwhelmingly been winning jobs with incentives up until the past year or two. If current trends continue, Kansas will decide it doesn't make sense.

Think about the $5 billion of investment downtown. KCMO got a few IRS jobs because a bureaucrat relocated them out of Kansas and there was a nice tech company that moved downtown from OP, but outside of that, the biggest wins were KCMO companies relocating. Over that period of time, there's still been far greater numbers in job losses (AMC, Key Bank, JP Morgan, etc.) weakening the core to the point you had Gib Kerr publicly stating that downtown needs to take more office space offline for residential condos.

Understand it this way....it's not worth the cost of the incentives given up to these companies. Nobody is changing their residence when their job moves from OPKS to SKC...so no property tax increase at all. Any small bits of sales tax they drop at "lunch" is frankly immaterial. All the while MO now has to maintain that infrastructure.

If we do want to give incentives for job relocation from KS, then at the very least we need to focus it in an area that we have made an investment and want to focus jobs....like downtown as you mention. Even then I think our time and money is better spent looking outside the metro at companies....it is harder to get them to move as they have to relocate workers but they are out there....problem is our Economic Development people around this metro get lazy....much easier to hit your "numbers" by plucking freightquote.com than to actually go sell Downtown KC and get a company from Omaha or St. Louis.

I can almost get behind this if the location was anything other than a field south of St Joe medical center that is practically in Kansas. I mean, they are moving 50 feet into Missouri into a greefield devlelopment? Not worth it KCMO or Missouri. I'm sure lots of people that work there live in MO now and you would only be giving their income tax to Freightquote that now goes to the state.

I just don't get this stuff. The ONLY winners of these moves are the companies and developers involved.

Report: Sacramento edges out Kansas City for 2,000 jobs

Sacramento, Calif., reportedly beat out Kansas City, Kan., for a call center that is expected to yield 2,000 jobs within a year....

The other cities up for the project, which will take 87,000 square feet, included KCK...

However, Kansas City-area economic development officials say they never were approached with the project.

KCMO comes up with $30 million incentive package for Freightquote.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/p ... l?ana=e_ph

chaglang wrote:

KCMax wrote:KANSAS VS. KANSAS!
$15 million to move six miles. Awesome.

That's $39.72 per inch.

This Freightquote thing is $46.42 a foot.

longviewmo wrote:

chaglang wrote:

KCMax wrote:KANSAS VS. KANSAS!
$15 million to move six miles. Awesome.

That's $39.72 per inch.

This Freightquote thing is $46.42 a foot.

This one?
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/03/37 ... metro.html

"The city incentives approved for the $44 million project include a 100 percent property tax break for 25 years, and a $9.6 million reimbursement from the new tax revenues it’s expected to generate through the tax-increment financing program.
The state of Missouri is providing a $33.2 million incentive package that includes $7 million from the Missouri BUILD program and $26.2 million in Quality Jobs tax credits. The Quality Jobs program allows the company to keep up to 100 percent of their employee withholding taxes for a set number of years depending on the size of the firm."

$33.2m + 9.6m + 100% property tax abatement = free building

Kansas will actually come out ahead on this project because all of these employees are going to be eating lunch at Town Center, Dean and Deluca, and the tons of other restaurants over there. What kind of stuff is even on the MO side, Royal Liquor, and some crappy fast food.

Well, crappy fast food is the default lunch for most people, and I hope they're not spending so much on lunch that the sales tax is actually more than the earnings tax.