OFFICIAL - Loews Convention Hotel (formerly Hyatt)

[kboish]

so you've got to be good enough to steal from others

You don't steal from others. Most conventions move from city to city. Having a larger hotel just puts KCMO into the bidding process.

Right. As of now we're not even part of the conversation for many conventions. This just gets us back into the bidding process and eventually back into the regular rotation.

Even so, I'm still split on whether or not its worth it to try to compete with the sunbelt and other cities that have long ago doubled down on their status as convention cities...we may already be to far behind. By the time we get this built the other cities will already be moving on to the next upgrade beyond what we have.

then again maybe we get the 2016 GOP convention and that pulls down a whole host of other conventions in the future? I guess I will defer to people who have been studying this. If they seem to think we have a shot then I say go for it.

This is especially easy to support since it should reinforce what we've already invested in the PnL district as well as rehab a beautiful old building and develop some parking lots into towers.

[KCMax]

Can anyone name some of these conventions we'd be gunning for? I know about the Dem and GOP conventions. I guess we'd want to get Wal-Mart's convention back? Skills USA? What kind of conventions are we talking about here that move from city to city?

[aknowledgeableperson]

By the time we get this built the other cities will already be moving on to the next upgrade beyond what we have.

then again maybe we get the 2016 GOP convention and that pulls down a whole host of other conventions in the future?

There is some truth with regards to upgrades. Much like anything else people expect facilities to be up-to-date and with the increased competition it becomes more important. The last time the city's convention facilities were updated was with the building of the Ball Room, and how many years ago was that? And a convention hotel is probably at least 4 years away and likely more. So that would mean 10 plus years since the last update if the hotel opens in that time frame. Is the city ready to do that?

With regards to the 2016 GOP convention I figure KCMO is still a long shot. I know some of the locals like the city's chances but the process has just begun. Phoenix, Salt Lake City, New Orleans, along with Las Vegas are either considering or putting together bid proposals. Of course the smoke filled rooms are not occupied right now.

[KC-wildcat]

Aren't several smaller hotels better than one large hotel, assuming they're proximately located near Bartle?

Just from a density standpoint, seems like 4 300-room hotels eliminating surface lots in the CBD is much better than 1 1000-room hotel.

[earthling]

^From tax payer and infrastructure perspective, yes. Convention planners want a single player to go to for a convention HQ center but if there were several from the same parent operator nearby, then is doable. IE, Hyatt went to Sheraton in CC mostly because Westin parent owns Sheraton, so planners go to one entity for both hotels.

Given that downtown can now attract a new hotel developer (newly built) w/out incentives, incentives toward one large one needs more scrutiny.

[KCPowercat]

Aren't several smaller hotels better than one large hotel, assuming they're proximately located near Bartle?

Just from a density standpoint, seems like 4 300-room hotels eliminating surface lots in the CBD is much better than 1 1000-room hotel.

Density, yes....conventions, no.

[grovester]

Well, at least "conventions maybe". We all know the 1000 rooms is their grail, but at what cost. And where would 4@300 room hotels put us in the pecking order. This concept might dovetail with the argument about whether we will EVER be a top tier location.

[KCPowercat]

Well, at least "conventions maybe". We all know the 1000 rooms is their grail, but at what cost. And where would 4@300 room hotels put us in the pecking order. This concept might dovetail with the argument about whether we will EVER be a top tier location.

The problem is it's harder to get the hotel rooms needed when a convention has to work with multiple hotels and multiple sales teams and hence multiple (often differing) ideas of how they want to sell, etc. Meeting planners desire less hotels to deal. Also many times these conventions use in-hotel meeting rooms in addition to the convention center....that's not available at limited service hotels like the new crossroads hotel. That hotel will focus on a different market than a 800-1200 room hotel does.

[DaveKCMO]

we're not building a city for meeting planners.

[aknowledgeableperson]

But the city does have a ton of money invested in convention facilities and there are many businesses that do depend to a certain degree on convention business. And it is meeting planners who work for the conventions in the first place.

[KCPowercat]

we're not building a city for meeting planners.

Nobody even implied we were. The question was balancing the difference between 1x1000 hotel vs 4x300 hotel.

guess I'd ask what you mean by "build a city" though. Do you mean physical density? Then sure, 4 hotels eating up surface lots would be a lot better. Build a city by way of jobs? The hospitality industry in KC is a huge job employer of all skill levels. Something many industries don't do in this city.

[flyingember]

we're not building a city for meeting planners.

as a whole, no, but part of what KC does absolutely is.

keep in mind the Sprint Center didn't replace Bartle Hall, it somewhat replaced Municipal Auditorium. There's notable events, not sports games or concerts but an actual event, that moved to the Sprint Center.

And the P&L district is as much targeted to events held downtown as to locals. They can provide after party space (like with NCAA basketball) or places to eat.

[earthling]

we're not building a city for meeting planners.

Nobody even implied we were. The question was balancing the difference between 1x1000 hotel vs 4x300 hotel.

guess I'd ask what you mean by "build a city" though. Do you mean physical density? Then sure, 4 hotels eating up surface lots would be a lot better. Build a city by way of jobs? The hospitality industry in KC is a huge job employer of all skill levels. Something many industries don't do in this city.

1x1000 hotel w/out any incentives most ideal, but not likely (even Denver's momentum still had to use major incentives)
3x300 new hotel construction w/out incentives can more realistically happen now - 1 has proven it
1x1000 hotel w/incentives acceptable if only for base city infrastructure

There are too many cities to compete with to invest a whole lot more into convention industry - many cities over-invested with hopes to attract conventions and it's not a growing industry. The downtown priority that can be realistically achieved is attracting more housing, small biz/startups, and small-mid hotels. If large biz/hotels want to go downtown w/out incentives, great. But KCMO shouldn't be spending too much $$ to pursue them. Go after what can be more easily achieved with low/no incentives, the rest will follow.

The downtown Marriott is already nearly 1000 rooms and the new one coming is under Marriott flag. So meeting planners can go to one entity to book all hotels. If downtown could attract a couple more smaller Marriott flagged hotels within walking distance (with little/no incentives), it's basically as good as another big one with major incentives. Crown Center now has 1400 rooms under one parent flag and will eventually be tied to convention center with streetcar. Downtown just needs more rooms, not necessarily a big one.

[flyingember]

3x300 new hotel construction w/out incentives can more realistically happen now - 1 has proven it

nope, all we know is that one company wants to build a 250 room hotel. nothing more.

[KCPowercat]

we're not building a city for meeting planners.

Nobody even implied we were. The question was balancing the difference between 1x1000 hotel vs 4x300 hotel.

guess I'd ask what you mean by "build a city" though. Do you mean physical density? Then sure, 4 hotels eating up surface lots would be a lot better. Build a city by way of jobs? The hospitality industry in KC is a huge job employer of all skill levels. Something many industries don't do in this city.

1x1000 hotel w/out any incentives most ideal, but not likely (even Denver's momentum still had to use major incentives)
3x300 new hotel construction w/out incentives can more realistically happen now - 1 has proven it
1x1000 hotel w/incentives acceptable if only for base city infrastructure

There are too many cities to compete with to invest a whole lot more into convention industry - many cities over-invested with hopes to attract conventions and it's not a growing industry. The downtown priority that can be realistically achieved is attracting more housing, small biz/startups, and small-mid hotels. If large biz/hotels want to go downtown w/out incentives, great. But KCMO shouldn't be spending too much $$ to pursue them. Go after what can be more easily achieved with low/no incentives, the rest will follow.

The downtown Marriott is already nearly 1000 rooms and the new one coming is under Marriott flag. So meeting planners can go to one entity to book all hotels. If downtown could attract a couple more smaller Marriott flagged hotels within walking distance (with little/no incentives), it's basically as good as another big one with major incentives. Crown Center now has 1400 rooms under one parent flag and will eventually be tied to convention center with streetcar. Downtown just needs more rooms, not necessarily a big one.

It doesn't work this way. the 1000 room marriott is ran by the Pistilli's....this new hotel will be ran by Chartwell...the flag doesn't mean squat.

I do agree we can't overinvest but from everything I hear/read, it's about getting a balance of walkable hotel rooms to convention center space....and one more big hotel makes those additional hotel rooms easier to sell and fill vs. 4 hotels with different owners competing for business.

[earthling]

You sure about that? The main reason Hyatt in CC went to Sheraton is because Westin next door has same parent as Sheraton, so one entity to book both hotels for convention planners. Crown Center was very specific about that as the key benefit. I suppose if it's all corporate owned it could be different but would think Marriott flag with different owners is easier to book than completely different hotels. I'd be surprised if all Marriott branded hotels don't use the same booking system, if not huge fail on their part.

[aknowledgeableperson]

It's not so much the flag but the ownership or management that makes the difference. Different properties under the same flag can have different room rates and how management bargains, especially if the hotels have different features.

If the city is really interested in improving its position in the convention trade business then a 1,000+ room hotel is a necessity (along with CC improvements). If the city is only interested in the status quo then the smaller hotels are just fine.

BTW, anything concerning the Muehlebach.

[earthling]

Would be curious to find out from someone who works in major hotels, specifically Marriott. If they aren't using a common booking system in this era that can account for such variations, they are harming themselves.

[aknowledgeableperson]

The booking system is just that - a booking system. The individual properties are free to negotiate room rates. That's why you can call the 800 number a see if a room is available and at what rate. But if you call the hotel directly you may sometimes get a better rate.

The Marriott system is probably much like the Best Western system or the Holiday Inn system or any other chain's system.

[earthling]

Starwoods apparently uses same system with different rates for Sheraton and Westin - is the reason Crown Center wanted both hotels under same parent, and they are different classes of hotels. Do you know Marriott doesn't do it this way? Would be interesting to hear from someone who actually works for Marriott. If any major hotel parent that serves conventions with various flags doesn't work with indie owners to have this ability, major fail on their part. Is a BPM/software development opportunity for an opportunist.

The risk is lower for 3-4 different developers/investors to do 3-4 smaller hotels than 1 taking the risk to do 1 large one - the latter typically seeks city help and expects the city to take part of the risk. And with fewer conventions and more convention city competition, the risk is real. With proper business process management across 3-4 hotels under same parent, much lower risk for investors/operators and city doesn't have to take any (or little) risk. Distributing risk is Risk Management 101 stuff.

And downtown already has 2 convention class centers - the Marriott is nearly 1000 rooms and Sheraton/Westin is about 1400. Downtown has a fair number of big hotels for convention HQ's, it doesn't have enough nearby rooms overall for the rest of convention people.