KCRag Forum

Let's leave the omaha streetcar talk out of here?

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:26 pm Let's leave the omaha streetcar talk out of here?

I got us off-topic. Do think its somewhat relevant as a way we can finance more lines,

well they are a ways off from proving they can put shovels in the ground with that funding but yeah always good to consider different ideas.

So they're paying to build their own streetcar and are gonna keep it free forever? How can Omaha do that? And if so, why the hell isn't KC and every other city building out more lines right now using this exact method? Something's not right here

Will the Omaha streetcar be in a dedicated or center running right of way with true signal priority? If so, I would be jealous as hell. Good for Omaha though.

okay make a new thread or use this one

viewtopic.php?t=16644&start=180

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:39 pm It was $1 billion to expand the trench + build a junction and go to Union Station

I've been meaning to come back to this and have been discussing this figure with some others recently.

There is no fucking way that costs that much to do. I'm sorry but there's no way that's true.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:46 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:39 pm It was $1 billion to expand the trench + build a junction and go to Union Station

I've been meaning to come back to this and have been discussing this figure with some others recently.

There is no fucking way that costs that much to do. I'm sorry but there's no way that's true.

It is what was quoted then. I am sure the number could vary based on a deeper study. A lot has to be done to expand the trench

Trench Costs
Acquire adjacent land
Demo many adjacent structures
Excavation along mission-critical rail lines
Replace all road bridges
Build miles of deep retaining walls
Replace or expand many of the rail bridges

Junction
Land acquisition
Construct flyovers and viaducts

Part of the inflated cost is to discourage the community from consuming private railroad capacity for public transportation, but they won't let anyone else estimate the costs so...

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:46 pm Part of the inflated cost is to discourage the community from consuming private railroad capacity for public transportation, but they won't let anyone else estimate the costs so...

So this was an internal estimate from RR?

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:56 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:46 pm Part of the inflated cost is to discourage the community from consuming private railroad capacity for public transportation, but they won't let anyone else estimate the costs so...

So this was an internal estimate from RR?

Sort of. Consultants are involved. Let's say you own a pipe and the government says they want to put some stuff through your pipe (heh), but your entire business model relies on having available capacity in the pipe as the market shifts (coal, containers, etc.). So you can either restrict your long-term profit potential or give the government what they need for a low price. What would you do?

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:36 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:56 pm

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:46 pm Part of the inflated cost is to discourage the community from consuming private railroad capacity for public transportation, but they won't let anyone else estimate the costs so...

So this was an internal estimate from RR?

Sort of. Consultants are involved. Let's say you own a pipe and the government says they want to put some stuff through your pipe (heh), but your entire business model relies on having available capacity in the pipe as the market shifts (coal, containers, etc.). So you can either restrict your long-term profit potential or give the government what they need for a low price. What would you do?

Makes sense now. The number always seemed astronomically high to me, but that reasoning shows why.

If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:02 pm If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?

Assuming this mythical money appears, I don’t think the Feds or many people here would find running mixed traffic streetcars all over the place a good use of money.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:23 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:02 pm If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?

Assuming this mythical money appears, I don’t think the Feds or many people here would find running mixed traffic streetcars all over the place a good use of money.

Well obv it’s assumed you put it up for a full vote for a tax. That’s what I’m saying, why not try it? If it fails, whatever. Main St prob makes streetcar a staple popular item that I think would pass

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:32 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:23 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:02 pm If things go really well and the Main St. extension is very popular, then why don't we go for the full blown $1 bil project that puts up streetcar lines all over the place instead of one at a time? If it fails, we just go back to the original plans. But why not try it?

Assuming this mythical money appears, I don’t think the Feds or many people here would find running mixed traffic streetcars all over the place a good use of money.

Well obv it’s assumed you put it up for a full vote for a tax. That’s what I’m saying, why not try it? If it fails, whatever. Main St prob makes streetcar a staple popular item that I think would pass

Clay is that you?

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do streetcar extensions in stages. Build segments and let development catch up along those lines. Once that happens, then add another segment or route. Give the concept time to bear fruit and show people how the City has benefited.

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:34 pm I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do streetcar extensions in stages. Build segments and let development catch up along those lines. Once that happens, then add another segment or route. Give the concept time to bear fruit and show people how the City has benefited.

Economies of scale and time. Federal project management is costly. There are benefits to doing 10 or 20 miles at a time instead of 2-3

I say get on with it. Roads get fixed. Buy steel in bulk.
Not rocket science!

normalthings wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:59 pm

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:34 pm I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do streetcar extensions in stages. Build segments and let development catch up along those lines. Once that happens, then add another segment or route. Give the concept time to bear fruit and show people how the City has benefited.

Economies of scale and time. Federal project management is costly. There are benefits to doing 10 or 20 miles at a time instead of 2-3

You can also badly mess up. Mixed traffic streetcars are not a good solution. You need dedicated funding and row.