Star tearing down buildings for parking lots

[Long]

I think I already said that this building isn't going to do much for the streetscape.  Everyone wants to claim that the Star is doing a great thing -- and they are by building an expensive, landmark building -- but it isn't going to make a magical urban experience on the street level to walk next to a mega-structure with no street-interacting features.  At least you can look into it.

Have you walked next to it yet?

I refuse to believe that a building like this can't fit into an "urban" experience.  Should there be buildings like this on every block?  No, of course not.  But, when the surrounding areas are built up on a more "human" scale, having a building like this in the mix will make for some interesting variety and diversity.  In the context of downtown AS A WHOLE, I think different scales, variations in density, etc. makes the city that much more dynamic. 

In the meantime, I would like to see the district surrounding the Star develop into more of a raw, industrial-ish area.  I think there are a lot of people that would like to live and work in apartments, offices, and studios scattered through an area with a couple of massive factories and large trucks coming and going.  Just like there are people that want to live in Westport vs. the city market, downtown vs. the plaza, etc.  Most of the buildings in this section of the crossroads are 1-3 stories, it has a different feel than inside the loop where there are more mid and high-rise buildings.  A building like the Star would be a disaster at 12th and Main, but I think it fits right in where it is.

I like that the east crossroads doesn't have any pretty street trees, benches, and trash cans.  But there are plans to install pretty landscaping around the Star, because that's what everyone seems to think is the right thing to do. . . personally I think trees and bushes will look absurd around the Star building.  Put all the trees and benches you want in the river market and (portions of) downtown, but not everything has to be all soft and pretty.  But then most of the people that think the West Bottoms is great would probably love to come in and soften it all up too. 

[Brooksider]

The Star actually has 17 lots of which most are leased. This new lot should help in consilidating parking into fewer lots and get the Star out of some leases.

[Beermo]

The Star actually has 17 lots of which most are leased. This new lot should help in consilidating parking into fewer lots and get the Star out of some leases.

thank you.

finally some help with all the star questions and comments.

where have you been hiding? you have over 200 posts and no karma at all. must have been gone for at least a few months.

[ignatius]

The Star actually has 17 lots of which most are leased. This new lot should help in consilidating parking into fewer lots and get the Star out of some leases.

The explanation does not make it a good decision.  Creating even more lots is not a better solution.  The Star of course could  have consolidated all lots into one large garage.  This is a basic Urban Planning 101 target.  Crushing buildings for yet more lots is deconstructive to the downtown momentum and sends a poor message to other indiffferent building owners who have no interest in saving/investing in their so-so buildings. 

[kevink]

I like that the east crossroads doesn't have any pretty street trees, benches, and trash cans.  But there are plans to install pretty landscaping around the Star, because that's what everyone seems to think is the right thing to do. . . personally I think trees and bushes will look absurd around the Star building.  Put all the trees and benches you want in the river market and (portions of) downtown, but not everything has to be all soft and pretty.  But then most of the people that think the West Bottoms is great would probably love to come in and soften it all up too. 

Bushes, bricks, banners, etc may be unnecessary, but I would argue vigorously against you on street trees. These serve some very important urban functions - they cool the sidewalk and street, which encourages walking and lengthens the life of pavement. They also cool the buildings, which means a lot if you have windows facing west or south, especially this time of year. In addition, they help to create a canopy over the street, visually narrowing them (very important on some of our too-wide downtown streets), which makes drivers think they need to go slower.

All of those urban and environmental benefits shouldn't be downplayed. It can still be "gritty", but I always vote for the trees unless the street is very narrow, and has a solid building wall. On the 4 block walk from our office to the coffee shop, the block that has trees is easily 15 degrees cooler, and makes the walk bearable, even in July. The other blocks are brutal, and make me think about driving.

[LenexatoKCMO]

you're a knucklehead. a dumbass too. there is no story here. the star tore nothing down worth anything more than the bricks it was made of.

if you're on crack, sorry i called you names.

Glad I was out of town for a funeral and missed this intelligent response from inside The Star.  At least you are honest enough to own up to the lack of journalistic qaulity displayed by your employer. 

Your other statements regarding me are so out of touch with reality I don't know where to begin. 

All I can say is that your vision for the city and neighborhood scares and depresses me all at the same time. 

[Long]

Bushes, bricks, banners, etc may be unnecessary, but I would argue vigorously against you on street trees.

ok, I'll give you the trees. . . I was trying to make a bigger point.

[woodrow]

What I find fascinating in this discussion is the nobody has referenced the article which the Star ran about how surface lots have destroyed the urban fabric of downtown.  I can't remember when they published this article, but it had terrific graphics showing the same three blocks in different eras, say 1920's, 1950's and present.

Yes, the buildings may not have been particularly important/interesting, but surely some creative planning could have gone into designing a new parking structure or something.  Anything to avoid increasing surface lots, which, according to the Star, have done much to  destroy the urban fabric of downtown KC.

Some sort of development will likely occur, but it is a shame a developer, or the Star,  hasn't started.

[staubio]

Have you walked next to it yet?

I refuse to believe that a building like this can't fit into an "urban" experience.  Should there be buildings like this on every block?  No, of course not.  But, when the surrounding areas are built up on a more "human" scale, having a building like this in the mix will make for some interesting variety and diversity.  In the context of downtown AS A WHOLE, I think different scales, variations in density, etc. makes the city that much more dynamic. 

In the meantime, I would like to see the district surrounding the Star develop into more of a raw, industrial-ish area.  I think there are a lot of people that would like to live and work in apartments, offices, and studios scattered through an area with a couple of massive factories and large trucks coming and going.  Just like there are people that want to live in Westport vs. the city market, downtown vs. the plaza, etc.  Most of the buildings in this section of the crossroads are 1-3 stories, it has a different feel than inside the loop where there are more mid and high-rise buildings.  A building like the Star would be a disaster at 12th and Main, but I think it fits right in where it is.

I like that the east crossroads doesn't have any pretty street trees, benches, and trash cans.  But there are plans to install pretty landscaping around the Star, because that's what everyone seems to think is the right thing to do. . . personally I think trees and bushes will look absurd around the Star building.  Put all the trees and benches you want in the river market and (portions of) downtown, but not everything has to be all soft and pretty.  But then most of the people that think the West Bottoms is great would probably love to come in and soften it all up too. 

Of course I've been by the building.  Probably 50 times.  I'd venture to bet I travel more miles of Kansas City streets outside of a car than anyone else on the forum.  I also have a friend that is working for the owners of the DOT gallery right behind the building on Oak and I've spent tons of time there.

Your response cements you as the Star apologist.  Have you walked by it?  On the Oak side, it is a big, blank wall with a few windows for offices.  It completely alienates that side of the street.  Anything the commits 2 or 3 blocks to a single use, particularly when it has no public interaction, is detrimental to the urban experience.  You could even apply this to the arena, but at least it will be a always-on building with public attractions and multiple entry points. 

I'm happy to have the building, but it isn't human scaled.  It'll make a nice oooo-ahhh for cars coming into the loop, but it won't do anything for pedestrians walking down Oak to check out the galleries.  The freeway and Truman frontage is now even worse because one can't travel east/west without getting around this hostile building on a hostile street.

[Long]

Nice.

Yes, I have walked past it.  Although I'm sure you win, I haven't walked past it 50 times. . . well, maybe 50 times since construction began, but only twice right up next to it since the sidewalks were opened.  I'm glad you feel like you've traveled the streets of Kansas City on foot more than anyone else.  I'll send you a new pair of shoes.

What I've said multiple times, that no one seems to want to address, is the idea that NOT EVERY STREET IN THE CITY NEEDS TO BE THE SAME.  I will start by saying that I love Delaware Street in the river market, (even though it has a few gaps) it is a great street to walk on, sitting at a table on the sidewalk in front of Cup and Saucer is a great experience.  Wonderful experience of the quiet, tiny street with old buildings, benches, trees, people walking their dogs, etc.  I also like walking up Broadway through the Garment District.  Taller old buildings, a wider street with more traffic (gasp!) and the sounds from the machinery at the Folgers plant.  Or, walking up 14th street alongside the massive, monolithic stone wall of the auditorium. 

Call me the Star apologist if it helps you sleep better at night.  First, I totally agree with all the reasons why blocks full of buildings with different storefronts, office fronts, etc. etc. are a good thing.  I'm not that dense, I understand these concepts.  But I would suggest that some people aren't even taking time to consider that something that doesn't follow these rules is automatically bad, and you make up your mind before you even take the time to experience the building for what it is.  As I've said, there shouldn't be buildings like the Star on every block, and any new development surrounding it should follow our favorite rules for urban planning.  But every once in a while, the juxtaposition of something like a large factory, the change in the dynamic introduced by something that is different, makes for a more interesting experience.  In all our efforts to introduce density, multiple mixed uses, everything becoming the same "human" scale, doesn't it all get monotonous after a while?  I was waiting for someone to bring up how the arena violates the rules of urban planning, I'm surprised it took this long.  Oh, but it has a few extra entrances, and its a "public" building, so that makes it better.  Well, unless you're not a basketball, hockey, or arena football fan. 

[staubio]

Call me the Star apologist if it helps you sleep better at night.  First, I totally agree with all the reasons why blocks full of buildings with different storefronts, office fronts, etc. etc. are a good thing.  I'm not that dense, I understand these concepts.  But I would suggest that some people aren't even taking time to consider that something that doesn't follow these rules is automatically bad, and you make up your mind before you even take the time to experience the building for what it is.  As I've said, there shouldn't be buildings like the Star on every block, and any new development surrounding it should follow our favorite rules for urban planning.  But every once in a while, the juxtaposition of something like a large factory, the change in the dynamic introduced by something that is different, makes for a more interesting experience.  In all our efforts to introduce density, multiple mixed uses, everything becoming the same "human" scale, doesn't it all get monotonous after a while?  I was waiting for someone to bring up how the arena violates the rules of urban planning, I'm surprised it took this long.  Oh, but it has a few extra entrances, and its a "public" building, so that makes it better.  Well, unless you're not a basketball, hockey, or arena football fan. 

I agree with you here.  It does offer a nice variety -- a striking juxtaposition.  This striking appearance happens because you can tell the building doesn't belong.  That does serve a purpose and does keep the area interesting.  It definately does a ton for the external appearance of the area.  I won't argue that there aren't positive things to be said about the building.  My only point is that the immediate streetscape around the building isn't well served by it.

[Long]

My only point is that the immediate streetscape around the building isn't well served by it.

I think this works both ways-- everything across the street from the Star, on all sides, isn't contributing anything either at this point, and the Star hasn't exactly driven away any thriving urban street scene, so I think its a bit unfair to judge it in terms of what we think the urban condition "should be."  And I'm sure the Star is going to turn away certain types of future development, for example, people looking for the quaint, quiet little street, but I do think there are people that would like living and working in a neighborhood with a big factory in it.  If some cool loft development went up on either the west or the east side (even looking right at the big green wall), I'd move in.  Hopefully a first floor space with a garage door or two.