P&L District: 14th & Walnut Site Proposal

[moderne]

  I expect them to buy their drugs at Davis Park!

[Long]

I am pretty sure that there is some serious distortion going on in that photo.  Those walls are in reality about two stories tall and don't really block the view of anything - yet they appear about five stories tall and dominate the landscape in the photo.

Yes.  Wide-angle lenses are fun 

I took that picture from that point with that lens in response to the comment about the moat and the city wall.  Sorry for the exaggeration of reality. 

[trailerkid]

The linear nature of the wall's crest yields a very unnatural feel to the skyline from that vantage point.  At least individual buildings would have small windows into downtown down alleys and the roof crests would not be at the same elevation all the way across one's view making the development appear more blended into the rest of downtown

I'm all for offering criticism on design...BUT:

1. There is also a skanky old freeway bridge from the 60s in the same pic. Let's not pretend like we're doing an addition to the Arc de Triomphe. I get the point, but i think a certain degree of relativism must be used. We can't go from a giant wound to center city phila in a couple years-- of course everything about the Cordish project is unnatural because it's a planned urban district.

2. If I never hear another word about obstructed viewpoints in this city it will be too soon. There is something to be said for a city that is visually exicting from the sidewalk or street, but I don't give a flying f#$^ what it looks like as someone breezes by in an Accord.

3. Until Truman Blvd gets wheels, there will continue to be visual and physical barriers between the South Loop and the Xroads. Even a couple towers along Truman Rd/670 won't change much. The larger issue is covering/removing the entire downtown freeway loop.

[voltopt]

   There does not seem to be much of an alleyway function, there is only one door opening on each wall, instead of the multiple doors one would expect for multiple businesses.

its not a true alleyway, and in fact is more akin to a party wall.  therefore any penetrations in the wall do not make sense, from an urban standpoint.  just pretend someone else owns the parking lot.

i'd rather have the blank wall then cheesy windows facing more private property. 

[KCPowercat]

well it is still under construction....this site is way too fast to dismiss things.  If this was the finished product, I'd be upset

[Long]

Well, I think the blank wall is the finished product.  But when there are actual buildings on the other side of that wall, along with finished sidewalks and streets, it will be better.  Plus, the Cordish site plans on this site show buildings on the corner of Main and Truman and the corner of Grand and Truman, which will leave these walls exposed only on Walnut.  Which I suspect will be the least of Walnut's problems. 

And something will be built there eventually.  And as much as it makes sense to people that like to spend other people's money, it doesn't make sense for Cordish or anyone else to make the backside of those buildings into anything special when they will ultimately be covered by something else.

[moderne]

    Just so it does not end up like Plaza West.  If walls can remain blank and prime lots unbuilt on the Plaza for 20 years, it certainly can happed downtown.

[Highlander]

I'm all for offering criticism on design...BUT:

1. There is also a skanky old freeway bridge from the 60s in the same pic. Let's not pretend like we're doing an addition to the Arc de Triomphe. I get the point, but i think a certain degree of relativism must be used. We can't go from a giant wound to center city phila in a couple years-- of course everything about the Cordish project is unnatural because it's a planned urban district.

Well, it may or may not be the finished product.  If it is, I think they can do better.

And something will be built there eventually.  And as much as it makes sense to people that like to spend other people's money, it doesn't make sense for Cordish or anyone else to make the backside of those buildings into anything special when they will ultimately be covered by something else.

It's the southern expression of a huge investment....why have expensive signage and advertisements if you are going to greet your patrons with a blank wall.  I would think it would behoove them to enhance the visuals......and perhaps they will (e.g., the artwork hanging from the Town Pavillion Garage).  The condos may built much later than sooner.

Just so it does not end up like Plaza West.  If walls can remain blank and prime lots unbuilt on the Plaza for 20 years, it certainly can happed downtown.

   

You need look no further than the P&L building's west (?) side to see that.  Still an iconic and beautiful building, it was built with a twin in mind.

[trailerkid]

Well, it may or may not be the finished product.  If it is, I think they can do better.


It's the southern expression of a huge investment....why have expensive signage and advertisements if you are going to greet your patrons with a blank wall.  I would think it would behoove them to enhance the visuals......and perhaps they will (e.g., the artwork hanging from the Town Pavillion Garage).  The condos may built much later than sooner.
 

You need look no further than the P&L building's west (?) side to see that.  Still an iconic and beautiful building, it was built with a twin in mind.

Not everyone is being greeted by this wall. There are three other sides of this development that won't have any blank walls. Further, the area that faces this blank wall is a piece of shit anyway (e.g. 1960s MPLS freeway, surface parking lots, crumbling sidewalks, lowrise trash buildings aka Downtown Detroit). The overall bleakness of the Truman Rd. corridor won't be negatively effected by a blank wall waiting for development. The bar has already been set so low...

[moderne]

In honor of that low bar...how about covering the walls in a mural of the same view without the walls as it was 3 years ago.  That would be depressing.

[KCPowercat]

I'll be too busy having fun on the other side of these walls to worry about them...I invite you all to join me.

[chrizow]

I'll be too busy having fun on the other side of these walls to worry about them...I invite you all to join me.

i'll be on the south side of the walls, drinking Haterade, thinking of clever ways to say that the P+L TOTALLY SUCKS OMG!!!

[LenexatoKCMO]

Not everyone is being greeted by this wall. There are three other sides of this development that won't have any blank walls. Further, the area that faces this blank wall is a piece of shit anyway (e.g. 1960s MPLS freeway, surface parking lots, crumbling sidewalks, lowrise trash buildings aka Downtown Detroit). The overall bleakness of the Truman Rd. corridor won't be negatively effected by a blank wall waiting for development. The bar has already been set so low...

The infrastructure may suck but the neighborhood just on the other side of the trench is really taking off with bars restaurants, etc.-particularly around Grand and Walnut.  I think it is pretty short sighted to think that there wont be quite a bit of traffic back and forth looking at those walls.  Plus the crumbling bridges are all getting replaced. 

[voltopt]

i like the walls because they are a very urban solution.  putting windows midblock screams "setbacks" "offstreet entrance" and other anti urban practices.

the walls mean the block will be diverse.
i spend a lot of time just south of the highway on walnut and the walls are no more disconcerting than any other party wall. 

[trailerkid]

The infrastructure may suck but the neighborhood just on the other side of the trench is really taking off with bars restaurants, etc.-particularly around Grand and Walnut.  I think it is pretty short sighted to think that there wont be quite a bit of traffic back and forth looking at those walls.  Plus the crumbling bridges are all getting replaced. 

What exactly is being cheapened by placing a temporary back wall next to a clusterfuck of anti-pedestrian roadways, the AT&T building, and other absolutely crumbling infrastructure. There is more surface parking in the Xroads than at Village West, but somehow a wall under construction in the rear of the entertainment district is a major blight. I could argue the entire Star building is a giant blank wall and that covers over 2 blocks.

[moderne]

  All that vast bare concrete expanse just screams out TAG ME!

[FangKC]

Yes, I've had the thought about that wall turning into a graffitti situation.  Perhaps Cordish should hire some Hollywood set designers to do an Eqyptian pharoah line-up.   

I think it's high time for the City to seriously start taking steps to cover I-670, and create a landscaped Truman Boulevard. Not talk about it, but do it. Doing this would heal the scar, and create an environment friendly for developers to start building new buildings along it. I think it's very important with the P&L District, the new ballroom, the PAC, and the Sprint Arena bordering that location that the problem be addressed sooner than later.

This is certainly a project that senators Bond and McCaskell should immediately start working to fund.  Especially since it's named after arguably our most famous citizen.  The current bridges simply aren't pedestrian friendly, and are actually quite unattractive.  The bridges over Bruce Watkins Freeway are far superior in that respect, and few pedestrians use those.

Centering Truman Boulevard over the freeway would free up the existing lanes for new buildings to front Truman.

I've always felt a bit of embarrassment that a street named after our native son President looks the way it does.  Almost the entire stretch of Truman Road through Kansas City is a sorry sight, and it shows a lack of respect for someone who had such a big influence on our city.  Truman has also had probably the greatest long-term effect on the world than almost any other leader.  If I were his grandsons, I'd be kind of embarrassed to take anyone down that street outside of Independence.

Boston is spending billions burying their freeways, and the Papago Freeway is decked for at least six blocks in Phoenix north of downtown.

I'll bet if we renamed it Kay Barnes Boulevard, something would be done. 

The Papago Freeway Tunnel in Phoenix


I think the next mayor should make it one of their first priorities to see this accomplished.

[Stockton]

Lightrail along Truman Road from downtown to the square would be neat.

[FangKC]

Yes, it would be.  Light rail running down Truman Road might also spur renovation of the existing old buildings that used to be retail stores, and spur development of new ones and maybe some apartment buildings to fill in the gaps along that street.  Something similar to the 18th and Vine Jazz District.  Truman Road is fairly wide east of Bruce Watkins Freeway. It could be landscaped; maybe have a median with trees and greenery; and some sort of cohesive-style of street lamps down the center.

Truman Road has enough vacant land running along it that a retail strip to serve the inner city could include Target, Wal-Mart, Sears Grand, Big Lots, Best Buy, and other big box retailers.  Those retailers are currently miles and miles away from these neighborhoods, which really affect inner city residents without a car. 

A light rail line running down Truman with these stores would be ideal.  It could also take tourists and convention visitors out to Independence to see the Truman home, library, LDS Temple, and the Western Trails Museum.  That's years away though.  I'd just be happy to see it run out to the stadiums.  However, it might just be easier to run a commuter train from Union Station out to the stadiums using existing rail corridors.

[moderne]

Southbound Grand closed today.  They are putting some large vertical steel elements in on the SW 14th & Grand corner that look like some sort of tower.