KCRag Forum

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:59 pm I just will say this: At all costs keep LRT the fuck out of JoCo

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:29 pm

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:59 pm I just will say this: At all costs keep LRT the fuck out of JoCo

How do you see JoCo suburbs different than JaxCo suburbs? How are they any different? How does building some great JaxCo LRT system benefit the city core and not just legitimize JaxCo suburbs and build them up?

SilentSpades24 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:56 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:29 pm

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:59 pm I just will say this: At all costs keep LRT the fuck out of JoCo

How do you see JoCo suburbs different than JaxCo suburbs? How are they any different? How does building some great JaxCo LRT system benefit the city core and not just legitimize JaxCo suburbs and build them up?

AMEN!

The Streetcar system won't (and shouldn't) leave the Urban Core besides, going to North KC, and maybe a line back down the Trolley Track Trail.

Light rail, or anything like that shouldn't even be built imo. Why incentivize people to live far away from the core, from jobs, etc? Do our interstates not do that already?

Kansas City has four great and walkable urban cores, KCMO, KCK, Independence, and North Kansas City. We don't need to keep incentivizing sprawl. we need to fill in the gaps and redevelop these cores.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:43 pm

SilentSpades24 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:56 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:29 pm
How do you see JoCo suburbs different than JaxCo suburbs? How are they any different? How does building some great JaxCo LRT system benefit the city core and not just legitimize JaxCo suburbs and build them up?

AMEN!

The Streetcar system won't (and shouldn't) leave the Urban Core besides, going to North KC, and maybe a line back down the Trolley Track Trail.

Light rail, or anything like that shouldn't even be built imo. Why incentivize people to live far away from the core, from jobs, etc? Do our interstates not do that already?

Kansas City has four great and walkable urban cores, KCMO, KCK, Independence, and North Kansas City. We don't need to keep incentivizing sprawl. we need to fill in the gaps and redevelop these cores.

I don’t think curb running streetcar serves the core adequately. I think it’s a mistake for Main Street and we will outgrow, and really started to in 2019, in the original stretch.

This is a 8 mile line. Other cities build LRT to serve such distances in urban cores. STL is doing such today. I’m just saying put the streetcar in the center of the street. Why argue against better reliability, speed, chance for more capacity, chance for future flexibility, etc?

SilentSpades24 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:56 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:29 pm

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:59 pm I just will say this: At all costs keep LRT the fuck out of JoCo

How do you see JoCo suburbs different than JaxCo suburbs? How are they any different? How does building some great JaxCo LRT system benefit the city core and not just legitimize JaxCo suburbs and build them up?

AMEN!

The Streetcar system won't (and shouldn't) leave the Urban Core besides, going to North KC, and maybe a line back down the Trolley Track Trail.

Light rail, or anything like that shouldn't even be built imo. Why incentivize people to live far away from the core, from jobs, etc? Do our interstates not do that already?

Kansas City has four great and walkable urban cores, KCMO, KCK, Independence, and North Kansas City. We don't need to keep incentivizing sprawl. we need to fill in the gaps and redevelop these cores.

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:20 pm I concur. What’s the disagreement?

FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:58 pm

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:20 pm I concur. What’s the disagreement?

BFA doesn't want center running. Also wants the urban core focused on to the exclusion of any and all suburban areas. I mostly agree but differ in thinking KCK, NKC (and maybe onto Gladstone after that), Independence, and maybe a line on the rock island ROW should be brought into the fold. That would be a good way to sell the a comprehensive system to more counties so we can get a multi county/multi city funding mechanism.

Lets get some inner ring suburbs on our side so we don't keep getting our lunch eaten by 159th street, Village West, and whatever ridiculous mixed use project just got proposed for Liberty.

My dream system in 25-30 years includes a robust urban system. 31st/Linwood line, Trolley Track line, Independence Ave Line, an east side N/S line (Troost, Prospect or Paseo), 18th/SW BLVD. Perhaps a few other routes or spurs. Those are my primary concerns. But I think pairing those with some peace offerings to a few inner ring suburbs would be useful and desirable and would not lead to further flight of our urban population, which seemed to be BFA's main concern.

SilentSpades24 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:07 pm KCK, NKC, and Independence have great cores that can be capitalized on, streetcar could be a great way to do that. I think even without the inner-ring suburbs, just including KCK and Independence in the conversation could go a long way in bringing pull back into urban cores.

Though, if we could leverage service into the burbs to finally get a regional funding mechanism (and funding in general), then I'm all for it, but it needs to include bus, bike, and microtransit services too.

FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:16 pm But if we need to sell other counties/municipalities in the interest of funding then what I laid out is the most maximal "minimal" approach if that makes sense.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:43 pm

FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:16 pm But if we need to sell other counties/municipalities in the interest of funding then what I laid out is the most maximal "minimal" approach if that makes sense.

Perhaps cynical, but I don't think there will ever be a regional funding mechanism and, if it did happen, the city core would be screwed by it. They wouldn't fold the current streetcar in so city center residents would be double taxed for the same service. NKC is probably the outlier on a possible extension as they seem to be more progressive and want to be part of the city. Council attitudes ("not one city $ will go to the streetcar!") just seems too entrenched among the 8-10 (maybe even 11) non-urban council people. As much as I'd like to connect to KCK I'd never want to have a line into Kansas that the state could connect to. I trust them so little. Building an urban environment is the cores ONLY opportunity to differentiate themselves from our suburbs and to regrow population. We have to have something they can't replicate or steal.

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:18 pm On the center running vs curb running streetcar, I’m struggling to see what the big deal is. Millions of people ride the curb running streetcar line today, millions road the curb running streetcars historically, and if somehow traffic becomes a catastrophic flaw to the curb running system, we can just remove cars from that street. We have lots of almost empty parallel streets for folks to drive their monstrous pickup trucks up and down instead, and the city has removed entire streets for far less justified reasons. I think we can afford a few non-car streets

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:20 pmThe old lines were center running

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:37 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:20 pmThe old lines were center running

Ok maybe they weren’t literally on the curb, but they were definitely mixed into the car traffic and weren’t exactly in the center

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:43 pm Perhaps cynical, but I don't think there will ever be a regional funding mechanism and, if it did happen, the city core would be screwed by it.

SilentSpades24 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:05 am In terms of overall mass-transit, regional funding may help if nothing else, provide those in the core some sort of access to opportunities our current bus system doesn't or can't address very well.

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:18 pm On the center running vs curb running streetcar, I’m struggling to see what the big deal is. Millions of people ride the curb running streetcar line today, millions road the curb running streetcars historically, and if somehow traffic becomes a catastrophic flaw to the curb running system, we can just remove cars from that street. We have lots of almost empty parallel streets for folks to drive their monstrous pickup trucks up and down instead, and the city has removed entire streets for far less justified reasons. I think we can afford a few non-car streets