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Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:31 am
by smh
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:25 pm
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:39 pm
Must accommodate the workforce of tomorrow (downtown location+transit) while retaining the workforce of today (plentiful parking). This building has lower parking ratios than others proposed in recent years I believe. Moving in the right direction.
Took 50 years to abandon the city, will take 50 to build it back. A task worthy of a lifetime.
100% agree. What I struggle with is how we get "the city" (which I define here as walkable urbanism not requiring ownership of an automobile) back if all our projects ape suburban office parks with little focus on urban life/travel modes. Like normalthings suggests, it is a nearly impossible high wire to cross without some better design.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:40 pm
by normalthings
smh wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:31 am
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:25 pm
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:39 pm
Must accommodate the workforce of tomorrow (downtown location+transit) while retaining the workforce of today (plentiful parking). This building has lower parking ratios than others proposed in recent years I believe. Moving in the right direction.
Took 50 years to abandon the city, will take 50 to build it back. A task worthy of a lifetime.
100% agree. What I struggle with is how we get "the city" (which I define here as walkable urbanism not requiring ownership of an automobile) back if all our projects ape suburban office parks with little focus on urban life/travel modes. Like normalthings suggests, it is a nearly impossible high wire to cross without some better design.
Step 1: Get people to actually want to build here
Step 2: Each new proposal has a lower parking ratio (doing this now).
Step 3: Get the big original garages to be shared amongst multiple users?¿ What if a new WR building tenant only uses 600 spaces. 4 Light of the development to the north could just lease the excess garage space. Same as anything near this project.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:47 pm
by beautyfromashes
smh wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:31 am
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:25 pm
normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:39 pm
Must accommodate the workforce of tomorrow (downtown location+transit) while retaining the workforce of today (plentiful parking). This building has lower parking ratios than others proposed in recent years I believe. Moving in the right direction.
Took 50 years to abandon the city, will take 50 to build it back. A task worthy of a lifetime.
100% agree. What I struggle with is how we get "the city" (which I define here as walkable urbanism not requiring ownership of an automobile) back if all our projects ape suburban office parks with little focus on urban life/travel modes. Like normalthings suggests, it is a nearly impossible high wire to cross without some better design.
We are currently in a bit of a building design transition phase, which can be hard. It reminds me of baseball stadium design. 20-30 years ago the Chicago White Sox built the new Comisky. It was cutting edge for the period. Somewhat modern, sleek, neosuburban even. The very next year the Orioles built Camden Yards. Totally changed the design landscape in baseball for the next 20 years and New Comiskey was essentially obsolete the year after it was built. New design in KC is coming quickly. The more we push, the quicker we move past the building equivalent of New Comiskey and will see dynamic new structures DT.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:01 am
by kenrbnj
The idea of reduced parking requirements is based on the supposition there are alternatives.
Stating the obvious: The streetcar is a people mover within downtown.
Until regional rail becomes real and adopted; the car will remain king. KC is still 20-30 years away -- at best.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:44 pm
by beautyfromashes
kenrbnj wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:01 am
Until regional rail becomes real and adopted; the car will remain king. KC is still 20-30 years away -- at best.
I hate to be pessimistic, but progress moves so much slower than that. I’m just glad that there will actually be options soon for some people in this city to legitimately go carless. I never thought I’d see that and it being an active conversation to cut cars because of the efforts to build the streetcar. Small beginnings.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:49 am
by smh
Forgive the crudeness of the drawing, but this is my attempt to explain how the building could be cost-effectively made to better enhance the street and promote walking. Pictured is the same centrally placed curved tower rising over a new podium that fronts city-sized sidewalks on both sides emphasizing ground floor transparency and perhaps additional tenant/retail spaces. The podium design deemphasizes parking and loading from the Grand Blvd, instead moving both to discrete side entrances using a single instead of multiple driveways.
A design like this maintains the curved office tower in the middle of the plot but creates a continuous street wall as envisioned in Crown Center's renderings over the years. The continuous street wall is key to creating an inviting environment that encourages people to walk to their destination, walk to transit, or just walk to walk.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:23 am
by DaveKCMO
Doesn't look cool from space.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:27 am
by smh
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:23 am
Doesn't look cool from space.
Hahaha, it does though! The tower is untouched. All the shiny curves a person could want! It's the Vancouver model!
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:10 pm
by smh
smh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:49 am
Forgive the crudeness of the drawing, but this is my attempt to explain how the building could be cost-effectively made to better enhance the street and promote walking. Pictured is the same centrally placed curved tower rising over a new podium that fronts city-sized sidewalks on both sides emphasizing ground floor transparency and perhaps additional tenant/retail spaces. The podium design deemphasizes parking and loading from the Grand Blvd, instead moving both to discrete side entrances using a single instead of multiple driveways.
A design like this maintains the curved office tower in the middle of the plot but creates a continuous street wall as envisioned in Crown Center's renderings over the years. The continuous street wall is key to creating an inviting environment that encourages people to walk to their destination, walk to transit, or just walk to walk.
Rough sketch of what this new footprint might look like. I think you can save money building the parking out wider instead of taller while still leaving enough room for ground floor uses including a much nicer lobby that fronts the street. Why would you tuck your grand entrance away on a cul de sac? Tsk tsk.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:18 pm
by chaglang
I feel like if that were proposed, people here would hate the unbroken mass of the bottom 3 levels.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:45 pm
by normalthings
chaglang wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:18 pm
I feel like if that were proposed, people here would hate the unbroken mass of the bottom 3 levels.
This design is much worse than what is proposed.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:54 pm
by smh
normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:45 pm
chaglang wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:18 pm
I feel like if that were proposed, people here would hate the unbroken mass of the bottom 3 levels.
This design is much worse than what is proposed.
I think the podium shows just how much excess space there is on the site. The building might be better positioned further south to leave room for another structure at a later date.
The point of the model is to show how the building
should come up to and address the street.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:58 pm
by smh
As a reminder, the concept for Crown Center south was supposed to be urban and walkable. Something the current proposal is not.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:08 pm
by TheLastGentleman
normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:45 pmThis design is much worse than what is proposed.
IMO it is far better. The more urban the better
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:04 pm
by FangKC
I would think some restaurants with outdoor terraces would be popular along Main with views of the Liberty Memorial -- or some type of glassed in seating court.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:58 pm
by DaveKCMO
smh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:58 pm
As a reminder, the concept for Crown Center south was supposed to be urban and walkable. Something the current proposal is not.
Basically what was built at 27th & McGee by someone else.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 am
by beautyfromashes
I don't hate the design of the building, I just don't like the orientation on the plot. Move the point to fill the space all the way to the south and build another building to take the south.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:09 am
by smh
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 am
I don't hate the design of the building, I just don't like the orientation on the plot. Move the point to fill the space all the way to the south and build another building to take the south.
Agreed--and move the parking and loading off the Grand side into a shared drive w/ whatever eventually gets built to the north since we've now preserved a significant amount of buildable space.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:38 am
by DColeKC
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:47 pm
smh wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:31 am
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:25 pm
Took 50 years to abandon the city, will take 50 to build it back. A task worthy of a lifetime.
100% agree. What I struggle with is how we get "the city" (which I define here as walkable urbanism not requiring ownership of an automobile) back if all our projects ape suburban office parks with little focus on urban life/travel modes. Like normalthings suggests, it is a nearly impossible high wire to cross without some better design.
We are currently in a bit of a building design transition phase, which can be hard. It reminds me of baseball stadium design. 20-30 years ago the Chicago White Sox built the new Comisky. It was cutting edge for the period. Somewhat modern, sleek, neosuburban even. The very next year the Orioles built Camden Yards. Totally changed the design landscape in baseball for the next 20 years and New Comiskey was essentially obsolete the year after it was built. New design in KC is coming quickly. The more we push, the quicker we move past the building equivalent of New Comiskey and will see dynamic new structures DT.
This is a good example of why some classic styles will always be popular. In regards to baseball stadiums, it’s hard to beat brick and steel. I hope any new baseball stadium locally goes the traditional route personally.
We definitely in a design transition right now.
Re: Office project at 27th & Main
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 am
by alejandro46
I agree with the above. The proposed tower is not well situated on the land and stands in the way of future development on this prime parcel along our major transit spine. Kind of similar to the BMA building over on SW Tfwy, it's built in such a way that the building is set apart from the surrounding neighborhood and no additional development has taken place despite a few attempts.
