KCRag Forum

They do have 3 locations in Atlanta, 4 New York, 2 LA. To me it seems like they generally try to spread multiple smaller locations around bigger cities. I think that in KC it would make more sense to have just 1 larger hotel. Larger as in just 300-400 rooms.

If the hotel is 300 rooms or less. They 100% do not deserve incentives. The Court Yard/Residence Inn(257 rooms) was announced a half-decade ago and required no incentives. I would even venture to say a sizably larger hotel would not either.

moderne wrote:Would it not be a problem to put a hotel entrance with all its automobile traffic right on the streetcar line? Could the entrance be somehow on Baltimore ?

Entrance would need to be on Baltimore or you lose all of that on-street parking for retailers.

ldai_phs wrote:They do have 3 locations in Atlanta, 4 New York, 2 LA. To me it seems like they generally try to spread multiple smaller locations around bigger cities. I think that in KC it would make more sense to have just 1 larger hotel. Larger as in just 300-400 rooms.

If the hotel is 300 rooms or less. They 100% do not deserve incentives. The Court Yard/Residence Inn(257 rooms) was announced a half-decade ago and required no incentives. I would even venture to say a sizably larger hotel would not either.

The City has to measure granting incentives for a new smaller hotel against those that already exist for older hotels that were recently renovated (Aladdin, Phillips, President). I can't remember how many hotels have existing incentives. Any new hotel might draw business from the hotel across the street and hurt their bottom line. It probably isn't a big deal during big conventions, but when there are no conventions, these hotels are competing for non-convention guests (a much smaller pool). You don't want incentives going to a new hotel that is only going to put an older hotel out of business. For example, a new W Hotel causing the Hilton President to shut down due to lack of business. Then the City has another empty building to deal with--one the City gave incentives to renovate.

Of course, if all the downtown hotels have healthy balance sheets, and the new smaller hotel would only help draw more conventions, then building an non-subsidized hotel would probably be fine.

The other factor here is political. The City has had to fight off opposition to hotel incentives. There are residents that have no patience for giving any more incentives downtown--for any reason.

For example, there will be residents who will oppose spending ANY City money on the I-670 cap.

How tall of a structure can this site support?

I've tried, briefly, to find our old discussions about it and I don't even know where to look. It was built to support a significant office building on top though.

Recent Developments as in Aforrdable Housing issue?

I'm glad to hear that occupancy levels are healthy among downtown hotels. It wasn't that long ago when they weren't, and that was with fewer hotels operating than now. I think the fact that we have more hotel rooms has drawn bigger conventions back. Sprint Center has helped a lot with that. I know people from the hinterlands that come stay the night whenever they see concerts, and they are seeing a lot more concerts than in past years because Sprint attracts artists that didn't come before. They didn't used to stay the night, and drove home after the concert. I think P&L has made the difference since there are places to go that keep them overnight, or through the weekend. The Midland is also programmed better now.

FangKC wrote:I'm glad to hear that occupancy levels are healthy among downtown hotels. It wasn't that long ago when they weren't, and that was with fewer hotels operating than now. I think the fact that we have more hotel rooms has drawn bigger conventions back. Sprint Center has helped a lot with that. I know people from the hinterlands that come stay the night whenever they see concerts, and they are seeing a lot more concerts than in past years because Sprint attracts artists that didn't come before. They didn't used to stay the night, and drove home after the concert. I think P&L has made the difference since there are places to go that keep them overnight, or through the weekend. The Midland is also programmed better now.

It's probably the combination of

more rooms available
more good major events at Sprint Center, Kauffman Center, etc. Maker's Faire is a good summer example
more good secondary activities like restaurants and breweries if the show isn't a late night show.

If you're missing one side of the triangle you lose a lot of people

Here is an overhead map from Cordish. Still TBD exactly where the other tower (5-6?) in addition to the H&R Block space is supposed to go. SW Corner of 14th and Baltimore (They have it marked as "Convention Hotel" on this map, as it was originally in contention for that) is what we are talking about or directly north, across the street. As discussed earlier, I believe they are controlled by Sprint/DST.

alejandro46 wrote:Here is an overhead map from Cordish. Still TBD exactly where the other tower (5-6?) in addition to the H&R Block space is supposed to go. SW Corner of 14th and Baltimore (They have it marked as "Convention Hotel" on this map, as it was originally in contention for that) is what we are talking about or directly north, across the street. As discussed earlier, I believe they are controlled by Sprint/DST.

The convention hotel text (bottom left) is pointing towards the under construction convention hotel

One spot for a tower has come up before if you dig into various threads. I'll save someone the effort.

Bring up Google Maps in aerial view and look at the building Visit KC is in.
Notice the dock? Bigger than the dock, you can see the three sides of a rectangle made up of a dotted line or small squares.

That's the top of columns to support a building. They're probably much bigger in person or mostly hidden by the roof.
In the same diagram you can see the extra gray section on that block. That's the space for the ground level space for the tower. What looks like it could be the start of an elevator shaft or stairwell (or both) also shows up on the roof and in your image

I also recall that the Midland could be one of the Light buildings. I could see "Six Light at the Midland" makes sense as a name

I meant in addition to the H&R Block space. Currently contemplated we have 1-3 apartments. 4 light which is listed for hotel/apartments. If this is accurate, 5 light would be on the former H&R Block airspace you mention. However, it has been discussed for a 6 light on this sub and there was a request for an overhead map of where that could be. Obviously, this is speculation, as that is a lot of additional construction, so this maybe would be in the later half of the 50 year term of Cordish's revised Agreement with the City.

I would say Midland could be a "Light," but it's contemplated use (affordable housing and not new construction), I would probably say they wouldn't use that brand for that project.

You assume that Cordish doesn't have options to purchase property near the District. For example: parcels on both sides of 14th Street at Wyandotte; a parcel at the NE corner of 13th and Wyandotte, and the old parking garage north of it. So, in additional to the H&R Block air-rights spot, and excluding the Midland Office Tower as an option, there are three parcels close enough to the Distict to be named "Light" apartment towers. There are also parcels on the east side of Sprint Center (east of Oak). Cordish could also move south of the interstate and build.

Building south of the interstate would drive Cordish efforts to put a lid on it.

If the interstate gets decked, those properties south of Truman are going to become more valuable and attractive to any developer.

StrangerThings wrote:I don't see us moving moving south of the interstate within a decade but I wouldn't rule it out several years from now if buildings/property that direction comes available. Our residential side is growing at a rapid pace here and in other cities and it's not limited to new builds.

I can tell you that Crossroads (not me, the neighborhood in general) would not welcome the P&L creep across the trench. It was a big enough pill to swallow the convention hotel and thankfully Burke has his office in the neighborhood.

Why wouldn’t Cordish push to take over East Village? That deal could almost be as cush as the original P&L deal.

I doubt they would get the same type of deal in any future expansions, or projects downtown. There is a growing antipathy among residents for granting such large incentives downtown. You might be able to still use them on specific situations like renovating an old building in an effort to save it, but there are few of those situations left. I doubt you'll see the same type of deal Cordish got in P&L unless it's something with some affordable housing included, or perhaps building an office building for some large employer.

I've been noticing a lot of push-back on building a new Broadway Bridge and putting a deck over the freeway near P&L. I guess we'll see in April how people are feeling.

We wouldn’t buy a lot and build a new glassy modern building in the crossroads.

Bummer.

I hope to see companies/investors other than Cordish get involved in new-build high-rise residential sooner than later.

I'll welcome all the Light towers we can get but additional players are needed if KC is to prove itself a vibrant downtown residential market, IMO.

It's amazing how prevalent NIMBY is even among supposedly positive downtown neighborhoods.

We have like two out of town developers and a major neighborhood is already against something they might do in like 7 years. It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

There isn't even anything to be against yet. Lol

StrangerThings wrote:We’ve talked long term, they would only acquire older buildings in need of repair.

I don't think that's the issue.