OFFICIAL - Hotel President construction

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:34 am

I've compiled some history about the Empire Theater in answer to a previous post asking about when it opened.

The Empire Theater opened in October, 1921, as the RKO Missouri. It was "the" place to go in KC to see top-line vaudeville. It seated 3,000 people.

Its name changed to Main Street Theater in the 1930s. In 1949, the name was changed to RKO Orpheum and the number of seats reduced to 2,600. The name changed again to Cinerama in 1956. Then AMC bought it in the late 1950s and changed the name to Empire.

In the 60s, the Empire was split into two theaters: The Empire and the Royal. In 1980, it was converted into four theaters and called Empire 4 Theaters. It closed in 1985.

One of the unique features of Empire Theater was that it had a children's playroom so that parents could leave their toddlers there while they watched the movie.

It also had a tunnel which ran between it and the President Hotel, so actors could use it. The tunnel because infamous because it was used by bootleggers during Prohibition to elude police.

The theater contains a basement and subbasement, where animals were kept for shows. It even had an elephant cage; a pool for seals; and an elevator capable of lifting elephants to the stage.

Noted performers such as George Burns and Gracie Allen, Cab Calloway, Charlie Chaplin, Sir Harry Lauder, and Olson and Johnson all headlined at the vaudeville house.

In its first year, it averaged 4,000 people per day, 123,000 a month. The stage held 22 musicians at a time, and could be moved 40 feet upon four tracks.

Speaking of theaters, did you all known that the Midland--first known as the Loews Midland--seated 4,000 people? It was the largest theatre in downtown Kansas City; and the third largest theater in the United States when it opened in 1927. It now seats 2,800.

It opened as a live theater, but was converted to movies a year later. Notables such as George Burns and Gracie Allen, Edgar Bergen, and John Phillip Sousa appeared there.

When Loews Midland closed it in 1961, part of the basement was made into a bowling alley. It was headquarters for a national bowling team, the Kansas City Stars. However, that lasted only two months.

In 1962, Durwood Theaters bought the Midland and renamed it the Saxon Theater. It was converted into three smaller theaters. It closed within the year though. It was reopened by AMC in 1965--again as the Midland, and continued to operate until 1981. After that, it was leased by the Theatre League and converted into a performing arts center.

Sources: Saturday Matinee in Olde KC, Chris Wilborn; The Front Row: Missouri's Grand Theaters, Mary Bagley; Kansas City: An American Story, Rick Montgomery and Shirl Kasper.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:05 pm

Electric_Cactus:

Kansas City was initially the epicenter for development of the professionally-run haunted house industry.

The original developers became quite famous for running haunted houses, and became consultants for many others nationwide.

The numbers vary in any given year, but there are about 6-8 really decent ones citywide. The better ones are in the West Bottoms industrial district in old warehouses--The Edge of Hell and The Beast. The even have their own Web sites.

If you look in Pitch Weekly in September and October, you will find listings describing them.

You can find the history of haunted houses in Kansas City and how it spawned a nationwide industy at:

Be sure to read all five pages of the article. The links to the following pages are at the bottom of the Web page.

As a side note, I wonder if the Power & Light developers want to gain control of the President Hotel and turn it into the nation's largest and most elaborate haunted house? Hotel Hell?

The Empire Theater could be "Slasher Movie Palace," "Theater of Death," or "Theater of Horrors." Perhaps the theater could have live interactive performances of "Phantom of the Opera." LOL.

KCDowntown · Post by **KCDowntown** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:04 pm

On the KC City Government website you can look up permits related to addresses. Anyhow, I typed in 1400 Main, the address of the Empire Theater. Anyhow, up popped up a pre-demolition inspection permit issued on July 28, 2003.

http://kivaweb.kcmo.org/kivanet/2/land/ ... pin=122580

The owners of the building are listed as:
G DOWNTOWN REDEV PARTNERS
PO BOX 12625
OVERLAND PARK, KS, 66212

Before a building is demolished the city must issue another permit, however, it looks like this might be the direction this building is headed.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:13 pm

I remember reading that the owner wanted to demolish the building...but were running into some troubles.....House of Blues would be perfect there.

JBinKC · Post by **JBinKC** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:59 pm

Ok, a PreDemo Inspection...does this mean its a done deal??? Anyone know anything more about this?

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 2:52 am

It appears the Empire Theater is in greater peril than we knew. This is most distressing news.

It would appear that now is the time to write City Council members--and others who have influence in the community.

Does anyone have contacts in the media that they could tip off to this development?

Are there any members here that are part of the Kansas City historic organizations, or the Landmarks Commission? What about the arts community?

What about people that were involved in saving Union Station? They at least have the experience in these types of public campaigns.

Another group that might be sympathetic to the plight of these buildings are senior citizens? They certainly have memories of these places, and the time to devote to saving them.

Does anyone have friends who are in political groups in town that have the ability to organize support, protests, and have mailing lists?

I'm still relatively new to the city and don't know that many people. I'm not a native; yet I care about these buildings. Surely Kansas City natives will as well?

Now is the time to be sending email to these groups bringing attention to this situation.

Often times, these types of things happen outside of the public eye until it's too late to do anything--since the ball has already started rolling. It is the intent of the developer to work "below the radar" of the media and the public eye until the wrecking ball is in place.

To save the Empire, it is important to gain the support of the Mayor and members of the City Council. Arts and historic groups often can put pressure on these politicians to act.

Letters can be written to city office holders from registered voters telling them that this is an issue that voters care about.

Now may be the time to send a message to the development community that there are residents in Kansas City who will fight to save historic buildings. Now it's the Empire and the President; tomorrow it may be the Professional Building, the Bryant Building, or the Savoy Hotel.

If the building itself cannot be salvaged, what about the exterior facade facing 14th and Main streets? They salvaged the facade of the Jenkins Music Company when they built the Town Pavilion parking garage.

Any ideas people?

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:56 am

I absolutely agree that the Empire and the President should be saved, but at the same time, the people demanding that the buildings be saved need to help come up a viable use for the buildings, and a method of funding. Renovatng older buildings like this tend to be expensive.

KC has a horrible record of maintaining the beautiful buildings and monuments in the city. The Liberty Memorial did not fall apart overnight. It was a failure of the city officials AND the citizens, who allowed it to deteriorate to the point that it had to be closed. The renovaton of the Hotel Phillips is a good example of things going right, and the President, and the Empire, and the Law Building, among others, are examples of things going wrong.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:36 pm

I'm going to try and find out more about this pre-demolition inspection permit filed on The Empire today.

I want to see if it is to demolish the entire building, or if it's only for making renovations and repairs on the structure. Developers must have demolition permits prior to beginning contruction or renovation of buildings; so they could very well not intend to tear it down. I'm giving the developer the benefit of the doubt until I know differently.

At this point, let's not raise a fuss, or contact any city leaders. If I find out anything, I'll post it.

KC_JAYHAWK · Post by **KC_JAYHAWK** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:46 pm

I have a feeling the Hotel President and Empire Theatre are doomed for the demolition ball. Too bad, they both represent a great part of KC's history. They may not seem like much now, but damn, there's alot of history in those buildings. "Damn AMC, damn them all to hell".

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:34 pm

The permit didn't say precisely what was being demolished. It could be the whole building; it could be some walls inside; removal of plaster; tearing out a bathroom, etc.

They could just be tearing out the walls that AMC put in to subdivide the space into four separate theaters--in an attempt to reopen the original theater space.

I didn't get home in time to call the City planning and zoning office to inquire what it meant. I will try and do it tomorrow.

I did find out that the Empire Theater isn't on the National Register of Historic Places. I found it odd that it wasn't, since the Midland and Folly are.

The Midland was registered as a historic structure in 1977; the Folly in 1974.

The President Hotel was registered as historic in 1983. The area around 11th-12th and Baltimore-Main is registered as a historic district; however, it doesn't extend to 14th Street.

Another oddity is the National Garage on 11th and McGee is registered as historic, yet the Empire isn't. Even the old TWA Building at 17th and Baltimore is on the registry.

So are the KC Power & Light Bldg., the Kansas City Club, the Phillips Hotel--all of which I expected would be; and they should be.

I found it odd that Municipal Auditorium wasn't on the registry. It's considered an art deco masterpiece in national architecture circles. It's almost always included in books on art deco architecture--as is KC Power & Light Building, City Hall, Jackson County Courthouse, and the Bryant Building.

I did find out that the Empire did pass its last fire inspection. LOL.

I was thinking this over today, and something occurred to me. About six weeks ago, I noticed that workers were fitting metal covers over all the windows of the Empire.

Now, one could conclude that it makes no sense to cover windows in a building that is going to be demolished soon.

Why would they go to the trouble to protect the interior of the place if they planned to tear it down?

Placing protective covers on the windows keeps pigeons out; protects the interior from weather; and keeps the windows from being broken by vandals.

Usually before a demolition, they tear out all the windows. So that left me feeling somewhat hopeful.

They used metal siding to cover the windows--not cheap plywood. One could conclude that if they were going to tear it down, they would have covered the windows with plywood instead of opting for more expensive metal sheeting.

I also noticed that they were very careful about how they covered the windows--cutting each sheet to fit perfectly. It was not a hodge-podge effort.

It appears to me that this was done to protect the building until it could be restored at a later date.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:59 pm

You went a little far talking about what they may demolish, they would not ever demolish the Bryant Building, it has too much valuable space, it would make a dent in the skyline too.
It isn't bad if they demolish a building, its a sign of progress to me, of course I love height, if they demolish something they'd have to build something taller and bigger.
Im glad if someone demolishes something small to replace it something that doesn't take up space.

SonicBoi · Post by **SonicBoi** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:39 pm

Taller is not necessarally better. There are many buildings that are tall, but are hideous. (Long Lines, Bolling Federal). If a building is thrown up it its place that looks terrable, then it will not be a better situation. BTW, I park in the National Garage. They need to do some work to it. Or at least clean it. And stairs would be nice, too.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:40 pm

i like the Bolling Federal Building

taller is better to me, whether it looks good or not

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:51 am

Devin:

I think you read my last comment a little too quickly. I said nothing about demolishing the Bryant Building. My comment about that particular building had to do with the fact that it is often cited in architecture books as one of KC's notable art deco buildings.

The only building in which I make any mention of possible demolition is the Empire.

And don't assume the Bryant Building would never be torn down. Very few buildings hold the distinction of being "immune" from demolition. Especially if the owner allows the building to deteriorate to the point that it becomes dangerous.

About your premise that it is always progress to build a bigger building on any site; In the case of the Empire, I don't think building a bigger building merits tearing it down.

Kansas City has plenty of vacant lots in which it can build tall buildings. That is one of the problems with downtown. There are vast areas sitting empty. Free space on which to build is certainly not a problem.

Buildings are not always replaced with larger buildings either. United Missouri Bank built on the former Emery, Bird, and Thayer Department Store site on Walnut and Grand between 10th and 11th streets. The new building is not larger than that department store building was--or the buildings that were located north of the store.

The same is true for the block bounded by McGee and Oak, from 10th to 11th streets. United Missouri Bank constructed its technology center there; and that structure isn't taller than the buildings it replaced.

A much taller building, the Waldheim Building, also stood on the corner of northeast corner of 11th and Main than the one that is presently there. The Waldheim was 16-stories. The present building--the Commerce Bank Arcade--is not even half that height. The Waldheim was allowed to deteriorate to the point it became dangerous--a piece of the stonework fell to the sidewalk.

It's a shame too because had the Waldheim remained, I'm sure it would have been converted into loft apartments like many other buildings. I was a lovely old tower. The building that replaced it--while shorter and more modern--has large areas in it that remain empty.

Had the Waldheim remained, and been filled with apartment dwellers, it would have least contributed to the downtown population, and brought some activity to that block at night. Hopefully those vacant storefronts on 11th and Walnut streets will someday be leased.

While I appreciate tall buildings (I lived in New York City for 10 years), Kansas City would be better off in the long run if it quit building taller buildings that remain difficult to fill. Instead, the City should concentrate on building more 5-10 story buildings and filling up all the empty space that remains downtown.

That way, it would be easier to increase occupancy rates in existing buildings. It would also eliminate the large areas of vacant land that doesn't contribute to the vitality of the area. Large parcels of undeveloped land give the appearance that downtown is dead. After the City successfully creates infill, then the demand for taller buildings will return.

Hopefully, if the proposed downtown arena is constructed, it will fill up all that empty space south of 12th Street; and bring with it more activity.

I am more embarrassed by these huge vacant lots than decrepit old buildings. While the President and the Empire look bad now, they can be restored and become centers of activity and nightlife again.

Buildings like the Empire and The President are more than delapidated shells. They hold memories for many Kansas Citians--and a connection to the past. I was talking this week about them with a librarian at the public library. He told me that each time he passes the Empire, he is reminded of his mother who played the organ there when she was young, and they still had live music before films. The President Hotel reminds him of attending the prom with his high school sweetheart, whom later became his wife.

I was talking with one of the bus drivers who passes the Empire on his route. He told me that so many parts of the city look like any other city in the US. When he passes the Empire, he knows he's in Kansas City.

Both men told me it makes them sad to see those buildings not being cared for.

This week I met a young woman from Hawaii, who had just recently moved here. She had never been here before, and has been walking around downtown a lot. She told me as we walked that she really enjoys all the old brick buildings here. She says they don't have that in Hawaii.

We spent about an hour walking past some of the unique old buildings and admiring their architecture and craftsmanship. She mentioned to me being impressed with the stone friezes on City Hall and the Jackson County Courthouse.

She said that the dome on the old Empire Theater reminded her of a building one might see in Europe. We walked past the President, and she said she liked the old terra cotta stonework on the building. As a newcomer, she was willing to overlook the shabby appearance and appreciate the details. She told me she had taken the bus from downtown to the Plaza, and she thought the Liberty Memorial and Union Station were "awesome," and she certainly wanted to check them out.

I live on Quality Hill, so I ride my bike around downtown a lot, and also take long walks. One of the reasons I chose to live in this neighborhood is because there are so many lovely old brick buildings that add charm to the area.

When I'm on my walks, I often encounter visitors staying in downtown hotels. Sometimes they ask for directions, and we chat a bit. Often they remark how they have enjoyed walking around looking at all the old buildings. They seem to like them more than the newer ones. Never has anyone made any comment about the modern buildings. What they comment about is how lovely the older buildings are.

One of the things people who stay at the Phillips Hotel have told me is that they love the old art deco lobby. Lobby spaces in modern hotels are so bland they say. The downtown Marriott on the block between 11th and 12th streets and Central and Wyandotte has a lobby that is very unremarkable. While it is a taller and newer structure, I would wager a guess that few people who stay there comment about the beauty of that building or its lobby.

The Phillips Hotel, however, is another story. The same for the old lobby of the Muehlebach Hotel. The President Hotel used to have a very impressive, elegant, and ornate lobby that would put the downtown Marriott and the DoubleTree to shame. Very few modern hotels spend the money to create such an atmosphere.

Historic tourism is one of the biggest aspects of travel these day. People go to Boston, New York, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago, New Orleans, Savannah, Charleston, and Seattle to see historic structures and buildings with a history.

People who visit Miami rarely want to see its downtown; instead they head to South Beach to look at the cool old art deco historic district. The popular tourist districts of Memphis and New Orleans are the areas with old buildings--Beale Street and Bourbon Street.

When I lived in New York, my friends and relatives who came to visit me there always were more interested in going to the Empire State Building instead of the former World Trade Center towers. The WTC towers were taller than the Empire State Building, but they always preferred going up in the ESB because it had a more romantic history attached to it. They had seen movies where it was featured, and wanted to have the experience of going there.

My visitors in New York also wanted to see Greenwich Village--one of the oldest parts of the city. Down in the Wall Street areas, my visitors were more impressed to see Fraunces Tavern and Federal Hall, and know that George Washington used to spend time there. Or see Alexander Hamilton's grave in the Trinity Church cemetery--which is just a couple of blocks from the former World Trade Center towers.

The same is true about cities in Europe. People don't go to Paris, London, Rome, Athens, Vienna, or Praque to see new skyscrapers. They go there because those cities have preserved so many of buildings from earlier eras. Paris has few buildings taller than 10 stories, yet it is one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world.

The leaders of the recent past, and residents of Kansas City, have not always been good stewards of the City's assets. Landscaper architect George Kessler created one of the finest parks and boulevard systems in the world. The City has neglected many of these public spaces.

Union Station and the Liberty Memorial were left to deteriorate for many years. The people that built those structures, the boulevards, and parklands in this City did so with the idea that they would be maintained and appreciated. They did not build them to be demolished or neglected.

The early founders of this city, and those who followed them during Kansas City's early growth, hoped to create a great and cosmopolitan city equal to New York, Boston, Paris, or Rome. If you read about the City's history, you will find this to be true.

Those who worked to build the Liberty Memorial did so thinking that it would last as long as the Pyramids in Egypt. J.C. Nichols, the developer of the Country Club Plaza was among those who participated in the building of the Liberty Memorial. He said: "It may seem to some persons that we have moved slowly in our committees, but it must be remembered that we are not building for 40 or 50 years. We are building for centuries to come."

Source: "Lest The Ages Forget: Kansas City's Liberty Memorial."

That being said, I don't want to imply that I don't like tall buildings. I do. What I would like to see someday is a row of tall buildings along Grand, McGee, and Main streets that links the downtown loop with Crown Center.

But along with those taller, modern buildings, I want to also see some of the older and more unique structures from earlier times. When you go into the Kansas City Store on the Plaza and in Crown Center, or in tourist shop in Union Station, most of the books you see being sold are those which feature the old buildings, or photos of the city during the "olden days."

Some of the things that I show people who come to Kansas City are the fountains, City Hall, the Jackson County Courthouse, the KC Power & Light tower, Union Station, the Liberty Memorial, the Nelson-Atkins Art Museum, Westport, the River Market, and the Plaza.

What they share in common is architecture, art, fountains, and history. No one has ever asked me to take them in the AT&T Town Pavilion, One Kansas City Place, or that god-awful City Center Square tower.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:56 pm

i think people should visit the town pavilion more though, its lobby is really awsome and it has (or had) nice retail in it too.
It's fine to keep old buildings, but people get attached to them and don't want to build more.
BTW sorry for correcting you, but just so you know, all the Commerce buildings (Commerce Tower, Commerce Bank, Commerce Trust) are all taller than what the waldheim was, and so is the Town Pavilion...
That is the problem, people ignore the taller buildings and tell people we have beautiful buildings, but they are small. I may be young but I still think that the old buildings so either be renovated or destroyed and replaced with something that preferably is taller, or bigger in area.

Post by **dangerboy** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:17 pm

KCDevin wrote:i think people should visit the town pavilion more though, its lobby is really awsome and it has (or had) nice retail in it too.
It's fine to keep old buildings, but people get attached to them and don't want to build more.
BTW sorry for correcting you, but just so you know, all the Commerce buildings (Commerce Tower, Commerce Bank, Commerce Trust) are all taller than what the waldheim was, and so is the Town Pavilion...
That is the problem, people ignore the taller buildings and tell people we have beautiful buildings, but they are small. I may be young but I still think that the old buildings so either be renovated or destroyed and replaced with something that preferably is taller, or bigger in area.

A lot of us prefer the older buildings for many reasons, one of which is that they interact with the street. Newer buildings like 1KC or Town Pavilion just present big blank walls to the street, which is really hostile to the 24-hour pedestrian traffic that Downtown really needs. Older buildings also have much more interesting architecture. Throwing u a bunch of tall glass rectangles would just make our skyline more generica, like Houtson, Denver, etc.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:44 pm

i guess thats just how I like it, I love boxes and height really matters to me, we have so much space in the KC Area we should build up and that would leave alot of room to create parks homes, etc...

Post by **dangerboy** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:51 pm

Density can be a good thing, but 40 story skyscrapers all across the city would suck, and just isn't going to happen. Besides, the sckyscraper is increasingly outmoded for commercial purposes. Most companies want low-rise campus locations with expansive floor plates. Chicago is the only American city buildng any significant number of office high rises, and San Diego is the only city building new residential high rises.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:51 pm

why would it suck? itd be wonderful!
dont you like tall buildings?
i plan if i become an architect, I will build as tall as the site owner and developer will let me
why can't you see KC with many 40 floor buildings? I sure can, dont you realise we just about had 2 50 floor buildings, and a 45 floor office building? Plus we have had more than that proposed

SonicBoi · Post by **SonicBoi** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:36 pm

1st. We'd never fill them.
2nd. Like he said, businesses don't want skyscrapers any more.
3rd. What would the cost be? If we level all the buildings to throw up 40 floor high rises, we loose the character that makes Kansas City what it is. For example: The Empire, Hotel President. And those glass bricks are boring. (i.e. Traders)

Just because a building is tall does not mean it is great, special, impressive, or anything else. Look at Long Lines. There are no windows above the 10th(?) floor. Who would bulild a building that tall and not include windows in the design?? And the design isn't that great to begin with. AT&T, you're a huge corporation. Can't you do somthing about this eyesore? Reclad it in stone or glass or somthing, please.

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