Politics
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Re: Politics
Regardless of political affiliation, everyone should be able to admit that Elon Musk buying the presidency and just doing literally whatever he wants is insane. He's dismantling USAID because he woke up and decided to and everyone is just like sure why not.
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Re: Politics
It's kind of interesting, let's say the Democrats had the white house and they were doing the same exact thing musk was doing. They put George Soros, and Bill Gates in charge. Every GOP senator would call it treason, Fox News would be livid, there would probably be another storming of the capital as we speak
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Re: Politics
This is how you all work. Surely anyone who doesn’t come out and hate Trump doesn’t understand politics as much as those do hate him right?!CrossroadsUrbanApts wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:50 am DColeKC seems to think national politics are like a game show. So not a surprise that he likes Trump, who is pure game show. Meanwhile, the rest of us who realize that Trump is clueless when it comes to negotiations - Canada and Mexico simply agreed to do things they already had agreed to do months or years ago during the Biden administration. And Trump spins that as a win. So basically he damaged (and will continue to damage) important relationships with neighboring allies simply to feed his ego. How do you not recognize this as a bad thing over the long-term?
What happened to business leaders correctly recognizing uncertainty as a bad thing? You really think this chaos and incompetence is going make it easier to make investment decisions (like development plans) going forward? When no one knows if self-defeating tariffs are going to be placed on important commodity inputs at Trump's whim?
You think migration and fentanyl coming from Canada is such a pressing issue as to cause the chaos that erupted over the weekend?
Is there literally anything this administration can do that you wouldn't justify? If the answer is "no" perhaps you need to re-look at the definition of cult.
And yes, there are plenty of things Trump could do that I wouldn’t support or like. I wasn’t a supporter or overturning Roe V Wade for example.
Just keep the panic up. The worlds not ending.
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Re: Politics
Why are people so protective of these shadowy organizations that have very little oversight of how they spent our money? What is wrong with finding the waste and perhaps helping decrease our 750 billion dollar deficit?
He didn’t wake up and decide to do this. This was the plan. Find the waste, act fast. It’s messy for sure, but we are going to discover billions of dollars being flat out wasted.
“ Gutting USAID might sound heinous, inhumane or just purely selfish. But billions of taxpayer dollars are going toward organizations around the world that are intentionally or unintentionally wasting it. Not every single dollar is spent saving lives or providing food and shelter to the poor and needy: This is a misnomer that USAID thrives on. This must be corrected.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion ... 211359007/
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Re: Politics
Not really. If the democrats were trying to save money, root out corruption and make government smaller, they’d be republicans.brewcrew1000 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 10:37 pm It's kind of interesting, let's say the Democrats had the white house and they were doing the same exact thing musk was doing. They put George Soros, and Bill Gates in charge. Every GOP senator would call it treason, Fox News would be livid, there would probably be another storming of the capital as we speak
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Re: Politics
It's not necessarily that you don't understand politics. It that you (and Musk) don't understand reality. Fighting fraud, waste and abuse has been a thing for as long as there has been a government. Do you not understand that there are many, many checks and balances already existing? I worked on things like this for 10+ years at the federal level. I remember the lengths the Obama administration went to prevent fraud from the stimulus package (ARRA). Are the efforts fool-proof? No. Does some fraud or even waste exist? Sure! It's a very messy country and no human or system is perfect.DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 9:26 amWhy are people so protective of these shadowy organizations that have very little oversight of how they spent our money? What is wrong with finding the waste and perhaps helping decrease our 750 billion dollar deficit?
He didn’t wake up and decide to do this. This was the plan. Find the waste, act fast. It’s messy for sure, but we are going to discover billions of dollars being flat out wasted.
“ Gutting USAID might sound heinous, inhumane or just purely selfish. But billions of taxpayer dollars are going toward organizations around the world that are intentionally or unintentionally wasting it. Not every single dollar is spent saving lives or providing food and shelter to the poor and needy: This is a misnomer that USAID thrives on. This must be corrected.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion ... 211359007/
But the arrogance is just stunning to me. Do you honestly think a bunch of 22 year olds given administrator access rights to core government systems and armed with some "AI-powered" tools are going to find billions of dollars of waste that was previously overlooked?
Do you not understand that even the definition of waste is highly debated? I personally think soybean subsidies to Iowa farmers for biofuel production is waste. Do you think Chuck Grassley agrees? So if Senator Grassley gets a law passed authorizing subsidies, do I, as the world's richest man and buddy to the president, get to unilaterally decide otherwise because I've seized control of the Government's bank account?
Why do you think USAID is a shadowy organization with very little oversight? Where did you learn that? Does shutting down the USAID website and locking career staffers out of their systems in lieu of unvetted 20 years old who did a summer internship at SpaceX increase or decrease the amount of oversight you would like to see?
Whatever happened to incrementalism and humility? To carefully observing how something works before acting rashly? I hope Elon and his cronies learn quickly that the US Government is not a toy like Twitter. Going in and breaking things to see what happens is a disastrous approach that will take years to recover from. This is the opposite of a conservative approach. This is the most radical action on the world stage since the Bolsheviks seized control of the Provisional Government in October 1917.
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Re: Politics
I don’t disagree that fraud prevention, waste reduction, and oversight have long been priorities within government. But pointing out that a problem has been worked on for decades isn’t the same as proving it’s been solved or that the systems in place are as effective as they should be. The existence of checks and balances doesn’t mean they always work optimally, nor does it mean waste isn’t a persistent issue worth scrutinizing.
You mention the Obama administration’s efforts to prevent fraud in the ARRA stimulus package, and that’s fair every administration has initiatives to combat waste. But even with those efforts, fraud, waste, and abuse still occurred. That’s not an argument to ignore the problem; it’s an argument to continually refine the process and introduce better tools where possible.
As for the idea that a bunch of 22-year-olds with AI tools will suddenly uncover billions in waste that seasoned professionals missed, of course, that’s an oversimplification. But new technology and fresh eyes have improved inefficiencies in many industries, including finance, logistics, and even government auditing. The idea that no additional savings or fraud detection is possible simply because past efforts have existed is an assumption worth questioning.
And let’s be clear, Elon Musk is not deciding what should or should not be funded. That’s not how it works. He’s simply identifying potential irregularities, and from there, it’s up to Trump’s administration to act on those findings or, if necessary work with Congress to make funding decisions. If there’s nothing there, then nothing happens. If there are legitimate concerns, then it’s in the government’s hands to address them. This isn’t some unilateral power grab where Musk seizes control of the Treasury and dictates spending.
As for USAID, it is often referred to as a shadowy organization because of its structure. While it is funded by U.S. taxpayer dollars, it is technically not a government agency, it’s an independent federal entity. That distinction is important because it allows USAID to operate with fewer direct oversight mechanisms than an executive branch department. This isn’t a conspiracy theory, it’s a structural reality. When billions in foreign aid are distributed through an organization with this level of independence, skepticism about waste and inefficiency is not unreasonable.
I’m not advocating for reckless disruption or for amateurs to take over critical systems without experience. But skepticism of existing structures, especially when they involve massive sums of taxpayer dollars, isn’t arrogance, it’s accountability. If oversight is truly as effective as you suggest, then new efforts to improve efficiency should confirm that rather than threaten it.
You mention the Obama administration’s efforts to prevent fraud in the ARRA stimulus package, and that’s fair every administration has initiatives to combat waste. But even with those efforts, fraud, waste, and abuse still occurred. That’s not an argument to ignore the problem; it’s an argument to continually refine the process and introduce better tools where possible.
As for the idea that a bunch of 22-year-olds with AI tools will suddenly uncover billions in waste that seasoned professionals missed, of course, that’s an oversimplification. But new technology and fresh eyes have improved inefficiencies in many industries, including finance, logistics, and even government auditing. The idea that no additional savings or fraud detection is possible simply because past efforts have existed is an assumption worth questioning.
And let’s be clear, Elon Musk is not deciding what should or should not be funded. That’s not how it works. He’s simply identifying potential irregularities, and from there, it’s up to Trump’s administration to act on those findings or, if necessary work with Congress to make funding decisions. If there’s nothing there, then nothing happens. If there are legitimate concerns, then it’s in the government’s hands to address them. This isn’t some unilateral power grab where Musk seizes control of the Treasury and dictates spending.
As for USAID, it is often referred to as a shadowy organization because of its structure. While it is funded by U.S. taxpayer dollars, it is technically not a government agency, it’s an independent federal entity. That distinction is important because it allows USAID to operate with fewer direct oversight mechanisms than an executive branch department. This isn’t a conspiracy theory, it’s a structural reality. When billions in foreign aid are distributed through an organization with this level of independence, skepticism about waste and inefficiency is not unreasonable.
I’m not advocating for reckless disruption or for amateurs to take over critical systems without experience. But skepticism of existing structures, especially when they involve massive sums of taxpayer dollars, isn’t arrogance, it’s accountability. If oversight is truly as effective as you suggest, then new efforts to improve efficiency should confirm that rather than threaten it.
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Re: Politics
I agree with cutting out waste, but it sounds like we are not going to touch the military and is probably more waste in the military than all the other departments combined
Last edited by brewcrew1000 on Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics
If you are not advocating for it maybe you should quite advocating for it because that is essentially what is happening. There's much more than USAID being cut. I know first hand how badly the US higher education system is being hit right now by cancellation and delays of grants and NSF money that they require to continue research - much of it energy and mineral exploration related. And it's being cut without any dialog or debate by people who have little clue what the organizations are they are cutting actually do.
Offering all federal employees a buyout was a ridiculous move and should be contrary to everything the "hire the best" mentality seeks. Again, I know from experience in the oil industry that when buyouts are offered en masse, it's actually the best employees that commonly leave. I actually don't have a problem trimming waste from the federal budget but we have to agree as to what is waste (and without misinformation like $50 million in condoms for Gaza). Trump's approach seems little better than to walk into a room pointing a shotgun randomly and start firing.
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Re: Politics
I think these quotes get to the Orwellian nature of the whole conversation. I do think that you have a good faith belief that efforts to reduce waste, fraud and abuse in the government are a good thing and that, in general, fresh eyes can be helpful in that regard. I would say we are aligned in that respect, and have similar end goals in mind.DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 10:29 am As for the idea that a bunch of 22-year-olds with AI tools will suddenly uncover billions in waste that seasoned professionals missed, of course, that’s an oversimplification. But new technology and fresh eyes have improved inefficiencies in many industries, including finance, logistics, and even government auditing. The idea that no additional savings or fraud detection is possible simply because past efforts have existed is an assumption worth questioning.
....
I’m not advocating for reckless disruption or for amateurs to take over critical systems without experience. But skepticism of existing structures, especially when they involve massive sums of taxpayer dollars, isn’t arrogance, it’s accountability. If oversight is truly as effective as you suggest, then new efforts to improve efficiency should confirm that rather than threaten it.
What I question is what evidence you are seeing that this is simply what Trump and Elon are up to. That they are simply good patriots who have a sincere belief that smart people can do good things where others before had tried and failed.
Are you not reading what Trump and Elon are actually saying as they go about these unprecedented actions? They aren't saying aloud anything close to what you are suggesting their goals are. I get that you think Elon is simply trying to reduce waste and fraud. But Elon is publicly calling Treasury civil servants criminals and terrorist sympathizers, and saying he will cut $2 trillion from the federal budget. This isn't remotely close to "simply identifying potential irregularities and, if necessary... work with Congress to make funding decisions." Why are you determined to radically downplay what Trump and Elon explicitly say they are doing? This is like "don't believe what your eyes are seeing and ears are hearing" Orwell territory.
I admit to being confused as to the concerted efforts to sanewash what Trump and Elon are saying. Why can't we take them at their word?
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Re: Politics
I think they're most definitley going to review the Defense budget. They've been railing against the DEI in there for ages now. That's prob where the worst shit is anyway.brewcrew1000 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:03 amI agree with cutting out waste, but it sounds like we are not going to touch the military and is probably more waste in the military than all the other departments combined
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Re: Politics
Idk dude. That one kid in there from Nebraska decoded an old manuscript from the Bronze Age or something and nobody else at any university could do it.
So tbh, they might be able to, lol.
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Re: Politics
Worst shit in terms of DEI? I would assume disability support and mental health resources are probably the biggest expenditures related to DEI and those are not bad things.TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:56 pmI think they're most definitley going to review the Defense budget. They've been railing against the DEI in there for ages now. That's prob where the worst shit is anyway.brewcrew1000 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:03 amI agree with cutting out waste, but it sounds like we are not going to touch the military and is probably more waste in the military than all the other departments combined
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Re: Politics
LOL, there's a chance. Though in the Treasury's case, it looks like Elon's 25 year old minion (Marko Elez) has already had to resign when someone found his racist social media posts from a few years ago. Though he may still be here in Kansas City even though his resignation was reported.TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:57 pmIdk dude. That one kid in there from Nebraska decoded an old manuscript from the Bronze Age or something and nobody else at any university could do it.
So tbh, they might be able to, lol.
But more seriously, I've been thinking a lot about what is so terrifying about all of this. In my mind, it is not really just about whether the actions that Musk and his cronies are taking with these important government systems are legal or illegal. Though of course that is important as well. The issue is that the actions are stupid - against every best practice for mission critical systems housing sensitive information that you can think of.
I would hope one would agree that there are important differences between Twitter's code and the code that runs the mission critical systems in a nuclear power plant, for example. The best approach to software development could be completely different - moving fast and potentially breaking things might be OK for Twitter. But that would be catastrophic for a nuclear power plant. So the latter has a very different ethos for software development and deployment.
The government's core payments systems are much more akin to a nuclear power plant than Twitter. Rushing untested code into production is a horrible idea if payments stop being made or start getting misdirected. Which is why code changes for these systems are tested for weeks or months before going into production. The cost of failure is just too high.
What's happening is that civil servants who have been taught for years about the importance of protecting sensitive information and ensuring systems don't break are reacting in horror at what these DOGE kids are trying to do in their red bull-fueled late night coding sessions. Again, it's not that it is illegal (which it is), it is that it is against everything they've been taught.
As Talleyrand said about Napoleon's execution of the Duke of Enghein in 1804, "It was worse than a crime, it was a mistake."
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Re: Politics
A good window into what's happening comes from Sarah Kendzior. She called everything years ago. I wish she had been wrong, but so far, she's been correct.
This is not efficiency. This is a coup from the inside. It's oligarchy. Everything about government efficiency is pure nonsense. Our culture has anointed, and mythologized, white male "geniuses," no matter how subsidized and dysfunctional they are. A lot of us who worked in technology for the last few decades are familiar with this pattern. People think they are brilliant because they don't know anything, they don't read anything. They "discover" new ideas that aren't actually new. DEI is the issue? Come on.
Do many of these agencies need reform? Of course. Are there corrupt NGOs, yes. Is it anything compared to the Pentagon? Are you serious?
My conversations with conservative relatives in the last few weeks have proven how much sadism is part of this. They don't care who gets hurt. They don't care if democracy dies. They don't even care if destroying an agency means of babies die of AIDS when they don't have to. They don't care if lack of aid, and those relationships, make us more likely to suffer a terrorist attack or ruin relationships with allies. They don't think they need allies.
They like to watch it burn. They have literally told me they think it's funny.
Musk hates this agency and aid because it helped end apartheid. Like Trump, he just cares about revenge and impunity.
This is not efficiency. This is a coup from the inside. It's oligarchy. Everything about government efficiency is pure nonsense. Our culture has anointed, and mythologized, white male "geniuses," no matter how subsidized and dysfunctional they are. A lot of us who worked in technology for the last few decades are familiar with this pattern. People think they are brilliant because they don't know anything, they don't read anything. They "discover" new ideas that aren't actually new. DEI is the issue? Come on.
Do many of these agencies need reform? Of course. Are there corrupt NGOs, yes. Is it anything compared to the Pentagon? Are you serious?
My conversations with conservative relatives in the last few weeks have proven how much sadism is part of this. They don't care who gets hurt. They don't care if democracy dies. They don't even care if destroying an agency means of babies die of AIDS when they don't have to. They don't care if lack of aid, and those relationships, make us more likely to suffer a terrorist attack or ruin relationships with allies. They don't think they need allies.
They like to watch it burn. They have literally told me they think it's funny.
Musk hates this agency and aid because it helped end apartheid. Like Trump, he just cares about revenge and impunity.