Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Highlander »

DColeKC wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 6:13 pm
Imarealperson wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:26 am
BrisbaneKC wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:43 am I read that Bob Fescoe said on his show today (yesterday for most of you) that the East Village site was a done deal until Mayor Lucas interjected and now it’s hanging in the balance whether or not it goes Downtown at all. I have seen this allegation made several times without it being confirmed nor denied. Why hasn’t the Mayor been pushed on this claim as to whether it’s true or not? He has been extremely vocal throughout the whole stadium debate yet little seems to have been spoken of on this particular matter. I have also read some posts on here and elsewhere about the federal government being unhappy about that as a possible stadium location, but there has never been an official response in relation to that. 

I looked to find the Royals stance on this and whilst they did they say something, it came across as vague and disingenuous. Basically a clip of Sarah Tourville at a public forum saying they switched to the Crossroads location because they did not want to displace residents in the East Village, which is obviously extremely ironic as the biggest concern of the Crossroads campaign was regarding displacement.

It seems like to me like the public will never know the full story behind this.
I don’t know how many residents would’ve been displaced by the “crossroads” location. I suppose it depends on if we are counting alleys.
LOL

Apparently Dave doesn't understand the different between displacing people from their homes and displacing people from their rented business location that in most cases will be out of business before this stadium is open due to poor foot traffic and an overall lack of business.
Did the East Village concept ever get far enough that the footprint was known and we even knew who would be displaced? I had heard the apartments at 10th and Holmes would have to go but it seems there would have been plenty of room in the East Village area to avoid that.

There is a single lofts project in the East Crossroads area that was in the area designated for demolition and it could not have had more than two units. Very few residents would have been displaced.

I don't understand the surprise and disdain regarding Lucas putting up a roadblock to the East Village project. For a variety of reasons, it wasn't the best location, but it's not in the city's best interest to subsidize a competitor to an entertainment district it's already contributing significant funds to support. Everybody knew that. It was discussed as a downside to East Village long before the switch to East Crossroads happened. And I am not convinced the East Village location would have passed. It still would have been opposed by the Save Kaufman organization and KC Tenants and other anti-tax organizations.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

It wasn't Lucas, it was Cordish who introduced this location. They didn't want a competing entertainment district and saw the opportunity to connect the stadium to theirs. Lucas thought it was a better location and that there would be synergy with P&L light. Not an unreasonable thought. They did not anticipate any backlash and this was the problem. Of course, this goes back decades. East Village was consolidated and the buildings torn down as a potential place for a new stadium because "we will need lots of parking". Real Estate leaders poisoned the property by taking away the very thing a stadium wants- activation and history. The city, instead of realizing that East Village now didn't meet the demands for a future stadium, doubled down on it until they realized it wasn't the best option. They should have been looking for better options for a modern demand earlier instead of pivoting at the last minute. Someone, perhaps a UMKC Public Administration student, will need to write a book about this process once it's all over.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by langosta »

beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:59 am It wasn't Lucas, it was Cordish who introduced this location. They didn't want a competing entertainment district and saw the opportunity to connect the stadium to theirs. Lucas thought it was a better location and that there would be synergy with P&L light. Not an unreasonable thought. They did not anticipate any backlash and this was the problem. Of course, this goes back decades. East Village was consolidated and the buildings torn down as a potential place for a new stadium because "we will need lots of parking". Real Estate leaders poisoned the property by taking away the very thing a stadium wants- activation and history. The city, instead of realizing that East Village now didn't meet the demands for a future stadium, doubled down on it until they realized it wasn't the best option. They should have been looking for better options for a modern demand earlier instead of pivoting at the last minute. Someone, perhaps a UMKC Public Administration student, will need to write a book about this process once it's all over.
Not really accurate.the location was pitched by a certain former sports exec and a certain site owner. Was not taken seriously at first but was later pushed towards by someone else mentioned up thread.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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langosta wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:13 pm Not really accurate.the location was pitched by a certain former sports exec and a certain site owner. Was not taken seriously at first but was later pushed towards by someone else mentioned up thread.
From your perspective, that might be the view. The site owner was pitching that site for everything to everyone. Someone bit first and from my understanding, it was Cordish. They then pulled in the mayor and the ball was rolling until it crashed.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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Just saw this on Facebook.

https://www.kshb.com/sports/john-sherma ... 1NeingfV8Q

Sounds like the Royals are still talking to both sides of state line. The two Johnson County sites already mentioned in this thread are confirmed as possible sites. Regarding downtown: Sherman didn’t deny that the team was evaluating a proposed site at Washington Square Park — just north of Crown Center and east of Union Station along the KC Streetcar line — but he didn’t confirm it either.

The language suggested they were considering sites from the past they have ostensibly moved on from. So what are those? East Village? NKC? Staying at TSC?
Last edited by Highlander on Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:52 pm
langosta wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:13 pm Not really accurate.the location was pitched by a certain former sports exec and a certain site owner. Was not taken seriously at first but was later pushed towards by someone else mentioned up thread.
From your perspective, that might be the view. The site owner was pitching that site for everything to everyone. Someone bit first and from my understanding, it was Cordish. They then pulled in the mayor and the ball was rolling until it crashed.
This isn't accurate. From first hand knowledge and experience, the Mayor and some other city officials with say were opposed to East Village for various reasons. Yes, the potential to cannibalize a nearby but not adjacent, city backed district was a major sticking point. The Mayor brought Cordish and Sherman together. It was too late and everything was rushed. The game was honestly lost the moment they went public with multiple site options. Just dumb.

Cordish are experts at working with cities and partners to not only build these types of things, but in many cases approval via a public vote is required. They should have been talking years ago. We'd be looking at final renderings by this point. Maybe a shovel in the dirt too.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by BrisbaneKC »

Highlander wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:32 pm Just saw this on Facebook.

https://www.kshb.com/sports/john-sherma ... 1NeingfV8Q

Sounds like the Royals are still talking to both sides of state line. The two Johnson County sites already mentioned in this thread are confirmed as possible sites. Regarding downtown: Sherman didn’t deny that the team was evaluating a proposed site at Washington Square Park — just north of Crown Center and east of Union Station along the KC Streetcar line — but he didn’t confirm it either.

The language suggested they were considering sites from the past they have ostensibly moved on from. So what are those? East Village? NKC? Staying at TSC?
A renovation or a new build at the Truman Sports Complex goes against everything they've said and are seeking surely? It's a sunken coat for a small market MLB team committing to a location like that. The whole premise of this from day one has been about the Royals becoming a more profitable organization and therefore enabling the team to compete more consistently on a week to week basis. I also believe they will be aware that the Chiefs would prefer they vacate even if it's simply to utilize the Kauffman land for additional parking.

I think the current rumored sites at Washington Square Park and Johnson County offer barriers to their two goals of increased attendance and additional revenue sources. The Johnson County sites in my opinion are not centrally located enough to support the attendance levels required once the honeymoon period ends. Washington Square Park on the other hand is a constrained site and it seems will be difficult to accomplish additional development on the immediate periphery of the ballpark.

I could see a scenario they return to the East Village. I know it is not favored by some on here but it presents much less resistance than the Crossroads did and in terms of vertical development it offers some cohesiveness with the other high rises within the loop if that is what they seek. There is also close proximity to the likes of JE Dunn offices, therefore it is very much possible that there are factions within the ownership group who could get behind this.

As far as Cordish, I'm sure the prospect of a ballpark district at East Village is far more preferable than the team moving to Kansas which seems is as much a consideration as any Downtown site now. Of course there is some concern competing bars and restaurants could be a threat, however between the ballpark attendance, new residents, office workers and hotel stays is it naive to think both could be sustained and thrive off the back of all the new traffic to the area?

NKC is a massive site but just lacks any critical mass to make it a workable 365 destination. I would be extremely surprised if that is back under consideration.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:10 pm The Mayor brought Cordish and Sherman together. It was too late and everything was rushed. The game was honestly lost the moment they went public with multiple site options. Just dumb.
Mayor and Cordish definitely went to Sherman, who (and is) just so lost in this whole process, but I guess we'd have to see who called who with the original idea to see who's right. Not that the person who made the call should be proud of the fact. We can likely agree that it was a disaster for many different reasons, but a disaster it was. I think Corish really could be a catalyst for getting to the finish line on a downtown baseball stadium. I wouldn't be too surprised if they are gun shy at the moment after the first go. Sherman seems lost. Blind and lost. I hope he has people he trusts who can lead him to the solution that is best for the city. A personal hand-walking through the maze from Corish would be very helpful.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by im2kull »

DColeKC wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:10 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:52 pm
langosta wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 12:13 pm Not really accurate.the location was pitched by a certain former sports exec and a certain site owner. Was not taken seriously at first but was later pushed towards by someone else mentioned up thread.
From your perspective, that might be the view. The site owner was pitching that site for everything to everyone. Someone bit first and from my understanding, it was Cordish. They then pulled in the mayor and the ball was rolling until it crashed.
This isn't accurate. From first hand knowledge and experience, the Mayor and some other city officials with say were opposed to East Village for various reasons. Yes, the potential to cannibalize a nearby but not adjacent, city backed district was a major sticking point. The Mayor brought Cordish and Sherman together. It was too late and everything was rushed. The game was honestly lost the moment they went public with multiple site options. Just dumb.

Cordish are experts at working with cities and partners to not only build these types of things, but in many cases approval via a public vote is required. They should have been talking years ago. We'd be looking at final renderings by this point. Maybe a shovel in the dirt too.
Underestimating KC Tenants was a fatal mistake. One I called out from the beginning. Their media campaign was extremely successful.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

BrisbaneKC wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:17 am
Highlander wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:32 pm Just saw this on Facebook.

https://www.kshb.com/sports/john-sherma ... 1NeingfV8Q

Sounds like the Royals are still talking to both sides of state line. The two Johnson County sites already mentioned in this thread are confirmed as possible sites. Regarding downtown: Sherman didn’t deny that the team was evaluating a proposed site at Washington Square Park — just north of Crown Center and east of Union Station along the KC Streetcar line — but he didn’t confirm it either.

The language suggested they were considering sites from the past they have ostensibly moved on from. So what are those? East Village? NKC? Staying at TSC?
A renovation or a new build at the Truman Sports Complex goes against everything they've said and are seeking surely? It's a sunken coat for a small market MLB team committing to a location like that. The whole premise of this from day one has been about the Royals becoming a more profitable organization and therefore enabling the team to compete more consistently on a week to week basis. I also believe they will be aware that the Chiefs would prefer they vacate even if it's simply to utilize the Kauffman land for additional parking.

I think the current rumored sites at Washington Square Park and Johnson County offer barriers to their two goals of increased attendance and additional revenue sources. The Johnson County sites in my opinion are not centrally located enough to support the attendance levels required once the honeymoon period ends. Washington Square Park on the other hand is a constrained site and it seems will be difficult to accomplish additional development on the immediate periphery of the ballpark.

I could see a scenario they return to the East Village. I know it is not favored by some on here but it presents much less resistance than the Crossroads did and in terms of vertical development it offers some cohesiveness with the other high rises within the loop if that is what they seek. There is also close proximity to the likes of JE Dunn offices, therefore it is very much possible that there are factions within the ownership group who could get behind this.

As far as Cordish, I'm sure the prospect of a ballpark district at East Village is far more preferable than the team moving to Kansas which seems is as much a consideration as any Downtown site now. Of course there is some concern competing bars and restaurants could be a threat, however between the ballpark attendance, new residents, office workers and hotel stays is it naive to think both could be sustained and thrive off the back of all the new traffic to the area?

NKC is a massive site but just lacks any critical mass to make it a workable 365 destination. I would be extremely surprised if that is back under consideration.
If they can't make WSP work, then EV should be the only other option.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Highlander »

GRID wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 4:45 pm
BrisbaneKC wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:17 am
Highlander wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:32 pm Just saw this on Facebook.

https://www.kshb.com/sports/john-sherma ... 1NeingfV8Q

Sounds like the Royals are still talking to both sides of state line. The two Johnson County sites already mentioned in this thread are confirmed as possible sites. Regarding downtown: Sherman didn’t deny that the team was evaluating a proposed site at Washington Square Park — just north of Crown Center and east of Union Station along the KC Streetcar line — but he didn’t confirm it either.

The language suggested they were considering sites from the past they have ostensibly moved on from. So what are those? East Village? NKC? Staying at TSC?
A renovation or a new build at the Truman Sports Complex goes against everything they've said and are seeking surely? It's a sunken coat for a small market MLB team committing to a location like that. The whole premise of this from day one has been about the Royals becoming a more profitable organization and therefore enabling the team to compete more consistently on a week to week basis. I also believe they will be aware that the Chiefs would prefer they vacate even if it's simply to utilize the Kauffman land for additional parking.

I think the current rumored sites at Washington Square Park and Johnson County offer barriers to their two goals of increased attendance and additional revenue sources. The Johnson County sites in my opinion are not centrally located enough to support the attendance levels required once the honeymoon period ends. Washington Square Park on the other hand is a constrained site and it seems will be difficult to accomplish additional development on the immediate periphery of the ballpark.

I could see a scenario they return to the East Village. I know it is not favored by some on here but it presents much less resistance than the Crossroads did and in terms of vertical development it offers some cohesiveness with the other high rises within the loop if that is what they seek. There is also close proximity to the likes of JE Dunn offices, therefore it is very much possible that there are factions within the ownership group who could get behind this.

As far as Cordish, I'm sure the prospect of a ballpark district at East Village is far more preferable than the team moving to Kansas which seems is as much a consideration as any Downtown site now. Of course there is some concern competing bars and restaurants could be a threat, however between the ballpark attendance, new residents, office workers and hotel stays is it naive to think both could be sustained and thrive off the back of all the new traffic to the area?

NKC is a massive site but just lacks any critical mass to make it a workable 365 destination. I would be extremely surprised if that is back under consideration.
If they can't make WSP work, then EV should be the only other option.
That beats Johnson County but we would have walked away from two far more viable downtown options and settled for the worst IMO downtown option with East Village. East Village would require so much peripheral investment to make it really work and I'm not sure that's really an optimal situation for KC with so much public financial investment in the P&L District. If we cannot do East Crossroads, they really need to find a way to make WSP work. While WSP could create a situation where there would be competition with the P&L District, the streetcar creates an opportunity for the P&L District to really prosper with this location even though there is ample infrastructure in the immediate vicinity.

The consequences of getting this wrong will be enormous for KC. KC needs to get past the mentality that something is better than nothing and strive for the optimal result. Obviously, none of the sites are perfect but there are clear advantages to some over others and by almost any criteria (other than vacant space), East Village comes in last of the urban locations.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by fixthepotholes »

That beats Johnson County but we would have walked away from two far more viable downtown options and settled for the worst IMO downtown option with East Village. East Village would require so much peripheral investment to make it really work and I'm not sure that's really an optimal situation for KC with so much public financial investment in the P&L District. If we cannot do East Crossroads, they really need to find a way to make WSP work. While WSP could create a situation where there would be competition with the P&L District, the streetcar creates an opportunity for the P&L District to really prosper with this location even though there is ample infrastructure in the immediate vicinity.

The consequences of getting this wrong will be enormous for KC. KC needs to get past the mentality that something is better than nothing and strive for the optimal result. Obviously, none of the sites are perfect but there are clear advantages to some over others and by almost any criteria (other than vacant space), East Village comes in last of the urban locations.
[/quote]

I think the peripheral investment related to East Village is what would appeal to the Royals compared to a site like WSP. Peripheral investment means increased diverse revenue stream for the team. This peripheral investment would mean that EV would compete with PnL more than WSP since WSP has limited space to develop an entertainment scene so I could see people using PnL as a pre-game before going to watch the game.

When I heard of WSP being an option I wasn't too excited initially, but the more I think about it the more I like it. You'd have the River Market and CPKC stadium at Berkley anchor one end of downtown, and the new baseball stadium anchor the other end. This would promote development between the two anchors as people would have reason to be around every part of downtown and stay there.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Highlander »

fixthepotholes wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 3:21 pm

I think the peripheral investment related to East Village is what would appeal to the Royals compared to a site like WSP. Peripheral investment means increased diverse revenue stream for the team. This peripheral investment would mean that EV would compete with PnL more than WSP since WSP has limited space to develop an entertainment scene so I could see people using PnL as a pre-game before going to watch the game.
That's the problem with the WSP site and perhaps it's a no go for the Royals as a result. But since the limiting factor for the WSP site is in the E-W direction, I am wondering if there is room for some development on the northern end of the stadium site directly south of the railroad tracks. There is some space in the block north of the tracks and a lot of space a block north of that. But I have no idea of the scale and extent of what Sherman has in mind.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

Highlander wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 3:43 pm That's the problem with the WSP site and perhaps it's a no go for the Royals as a result. But since the limiting factor for the WSP site is in the E-W direction, I am wondering if there is room for some development on the northern end of the stadium site directly south of the railroad tracks. There is some space in the block north of the tracks and a lot of space a block north of that. But I have no idea of the scale and extent of what Sherman has in mind.
There is as much "peripheral investment space" at WSP as there was with East Crossroads. East Village I think was just too much to chew to be effective. I'd expected something to be announced (or get leaked) after the Super Bowl and before spring training.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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beautyfromashes wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 3:57 pm
Highlander wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 3:43 pm That's the problem with the WSP site and perhaps it's a no go for the Royals as a result. But since the limiting factor for the WSP site is in the E-W direction, I am wondering if there is room for some development on the northern end of the stadium site directly south of the railroad tracks. There is some space in the block north of the tracks and a lot of space a block north of that. But I have no idea of the scale and extent of what Sherman has in mind.
There is as much "peripheral investment space" at WSP as there was with East Crossroads. East Village I think was just too much to chew to be effective. I'd expected something to be announced (or get leaked) after the Super Bowl and before spring training.
Believe they’re trying to keep things closer to the vest than that. If something is leaked prior to spring training, it wasnt the royals’ intention.

I would guess summer we’ll start to hear next steps
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by rxlexi »

KCBJ is reporting that Sherman said (at Royals Fanfest) their intended timeframe to go public with further discussion is June or July, coinciding with the state political calendar in both MO and KS. So, we will be waiting a bit longer.
A midsummer timeline for choosing a ballpark site aligns with possible deadlines for 2025 action on public stadium financing in both Missouri and Kansas. The General Assembly's regular session is scheduled to run through May 16. Kansas' enhanced STAR bond legislation, passed last year in a bid to lure the Royals and Kansas City Chiefs across the state line, also is set to expire June 30, unless a state council were to approve a one-year extension into 2026.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Waiting half a year for updates on this project is just tradition at this point. At this rate I’ll be shocked if ground breaks for a new stadium this decade regardless of site
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:00 pm Waiting half a year for updates on this project is just tradition at this point. At this rate I’ll be shocked if ground breaks for a new stadium this decade regardless of site
I think what they're saying but not saying, is that the entire ordeal is just waiting for Kehoe to cobble together the votes to get it done. Once that happens I think that's it and is announced quickly.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Rusty Irish »

Was in Denver for a few days there and that McGregor Square area around Coors Field really impressed me and I guess would have been the blueprint for the Crossroads site or close to. It would have been much more complimentary to P&L as well, so frustrating. Also saw several businesses with signage all around buildings in the Union Station area and Downtown who's KC presence is in the suburbs.

Patch this mess up and do the right thing for once KC for fuck's sake.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by chingon »

I wish Trump would do an executive order banning people in this town from calling that gaping, generationally vacant hole the "east village"
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