NBA to Kansas City

[dnweava]

Just saw the KC Goats are moving to St. Joe. I didn't even realize they had a downtown arena.

[langosta]

But why? Just bc the KC Current did? Is this all about just trying to make history again..? Would be an interesting pitch to the league office to differentiate from the crowd— “if you give us the team we will build it it’s own home like we did with soccer” ?

Because stadium sponsorship and events are important revenues to lessen the regular losses these teams incur. Which is why the Current buit.


You can also right size and have a better fan feel

[Cratedigger]

Just saw the KC Goats are moving to St. Joe. I didn't even realize they had a downtown arena.

They were supposed to play at Municipal, field wasn’t ready in time, they had to play at Pius

[TheUrbanRoo]

But why? Just bc the KC Current did? Is this all about just trying to make history again..? Would be an interesting pitch to the league office to differentiate from the crowd— “if you give us the team we will build it it’s own home like we did with soccer” ?

Because stadium sponsorship and events are important revenues to lessen the regular losses these teams incur. Which is why the Current buit.


You can also right size and have a better fan feel

Yes. However, how does that work if we have two small size stadiums sitting around downtown? I can understand the Current stadium filling a need but two of them? Can the market absorb that on non-game days?

[langosta]

But why? Just bc the KC Current did? Is this all about just trying to make history again..? Would be an interesting pitch to the league office to differentiate from the crowd— “if you give us the team we will build it it’s own home like we did with soccer” ?

Because stadium sponsorship and events are important revenues to lessen the regular losses these teams incur. Which is why the Current buit.


You can also right size and have a better fan feel

Yes. However, how does that work if we have two small size stadiums sitting around downtown? I can understand the Current stadium filling a need but two of them? Can the market absorb that on non-game days?

Hyvee arena is not really set up for concerts. Does municipal host any in recent years? I had thought Cable Dahlmer was really the only smaller arena player.

[Cratedigger]

Because stadium sponsorship and events are important revenues to lessen the regular losses these teams incur. Which is why the Current buit.


You can also right size and have a better fan feel

Yes. However, how does that work if we have two small size stadiums sitting around downtown? I can understand the Current stadium filling a need but two of them? Can the market absorb that on non-game days?

Hyvee arena is not really set up for concerts. Does municipal host any in recent years? I had thought Cable Dahlmer was really the only smaller arena player.

I know there's a lot of comedy shows at municipal. Not sure about concerts though

[aknowledgeableperson]

I would imagine one determining factor in where a WNBA plays in KC is the rent the team would have to pay for a home game. One thing in favor of the potential team is the league plays its games in what is usually a quiet time for arenas.
And one thing to consider a crowd of 8,000 looks better in a 10,000 seat arena as opposed to a 15,000 seat arena or larger I would imagine though T-Mobile can close off the upper deck and keep it dark to make a smaller crowd look better.
Much like the Current building its own facility I can see a potential WNBA team build its own facility also. That way it can capture more revenue to help support the team financially.

[langosta]

Yes. However, how does that work if we have two small size stadiums sitting around downtown? I can understand the Current stadium filling a need but two of them? Can the market absorb that on non-game days?

Hyvee arena is not really set up for concerts. Does municipal host any in recent years? I had thought Cable Dahlmer was really the only smaller arena player.

I know there's a lot of comedy shows at municipal. Not sure about concerts though

Those are in the theatre, at least what I’ve attended

[FangKC]

Patrick Mahomes discusses efforts to bring WNBA team to Kansas City

Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes confirmed Thursday that he is part of an effort to bring a WNBA team to Kansas City.

Mahomes discussed the effort on Thursday.
Advertisement

“I mean, obviously, we want to get basketball to Kansas City in general, and the WNBA and the success they’ve had this last season and these last few seasons, it’s kind of a no-brainer,” Mahomes said.

Mahomes and his wife, Brittany, are part of the ownership group for the KC Current soccer club.
...

https://www.kmbc.com/article/patrick-ma ... y/62778025

[DColeKC]

Good post. Having so few corporations in KC is a killer for KC to sustain NHL or NBA. It hurts the Royals more than the location of the stadium does. And KC's very wealthy are generally not interested in owning sports teams.

A WNBA team would be a nice little thing to draw a few more people downtown but I'm not sure it should come at a huge cost to the city. It just doesn't seem worth it. I'm also all for a new arena but only at UMKC (KC does not need another suburban arena). UMKC needs any investment it can get to help raise its profile to a higher level. Otherwise T-Mobile would be fine. That arena is barely used even though people think it's one of the busiest.

Many people and publications like to work off of total number of events as the measuring unit for “busiest”. MSG, Crypto and T-Mobile Arena are going to win that one every time. Using that metric T-Mobile center usually finds itself in or around the top 10.

Technically speaking, considering there are over 100 active arenas in this country, being near or in the top 10 solidifies T-Mobile Center as one of the busiest.

Can it get busier with a WNBA team? It can but it’s not exactly like suddenly you get 20 incremental dates to the calendar.

As I’ve said, more detailed and serious conversations need to happen but I understand we are not there in the process yet.

You can stop spreading this lie any year now.

Just take a quick look and we aren't even top 10 in the Midwest for dates booked.

Did a quick look at the calendar for Des Moines, Omaha, St Louis, Chicago, etc for between now and March 1 all have 40-50% of their dates booked, Chicago over 60%, while KC is at ... 15% of dates booked. And these cities are getting the same concerts,comedian, monster truck, etc tours that we are getting and often more like I saw several were getting Disney on Ice. Heck, even independence is at 39% dates booked.

It's such a BS excuse that we have to leave t Mobile team free to book concerts that Omaha, Des Moines, and STL are also booking despite having teams in their arenas

We rely on actual data, not just what's publicly available online. Comparing schedules isn’t as simple as just looking at what’s listed on a calendar, and I’d appreciate it if you avoid accusing anyone of lying. While I won’t open up all our internal data simply to prove a point, you should understand that these matters involve far more than public listings.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the idea of a full-time pro-sports team as an anchor tenant. My point is that securing this requires more than adding a name to a proposal, it involves navigating existing, fully-executed contracts that necessitate sign-off.

I’m open to supporting this direction, but a formal discussion would be beneficial to gain a clear understanding of the impact on our current operations before we move forward.

[DColeKC]

This is not a Sports Commission proposal, it's directly from potential ownership. You have no insight into this, so you attempt to minimize.

The sports commission is the middle man here between the league and potential ownership group. I have insight to this because of my position within ASM.

What am I minimizing? Nothing has been agreed upon regarding the venue at point in time. Why are you making statements that are pure speculation as fact?

I'm in favor of a WNBA team coming to Kansas City, but this has all been rushed along over the last several weeks and there are many, more serious conversations to be had regarding several topics, the venue is one of them.

I am sorry you don't have the insight you think you do.

You're clearly not over things from the political section of this forum but that doesn't change the fact that I took a new role 6 months ago that not only gives me insight, but will require my cooperation in order to make T-Mobile Center the home to any pro-sports team.

This seems personal for you towards me, good luck with that.

[im2kull]

@dcole - Isn't ASM still on the hook for ~$10M in annual maintenance/operating costs if a pro-sports tenant doesn't exist, per the OG agreement? Does the city still enforce that agreement?

[dnweava]

Many people and publications like to work off of total number of events as the measuring unit for “busiest”. MSG, Crypto and T-Mobile Arena are going to win that one every time. Using that metric T-Mobile center usually finds itself in or around the top 10.

Technically speaking, considering there are over 100 active arenas in this country, being near or in the top 10 solidifies T-Mobile Center as one of the busiest.

Can it get busier with a WNBA team? It can but it’s not exactly like suddenly you get 20 incremental dates to the calendar.

As I’ve said, more detailed and serious conversations need to happen but I understand we are not there in the process yet.

You can stop spreading this lie any year now.

Just take a quick look and we aren't even top 10 in the Midwest for dates booked.

Did a quick look at the calendar for Des Moines, Omaha, St Louis, Chicago, etc for between now and March 1 all have 40-50% of their dates booked, Chicago over 60%, while KC is at ... 15% of dates booked. And these cities are getting the same concerts,comedian, monster truck, etc tours that we are getting and often more like I saw several were getting Disney on Ice. Heck, even independence is at 39% dates booked.

It's such a BS excuse that we have to leave t Mobile team free to book concerts that Omaha, Des Moines, and STL are also booking despite having teams in their arenas

We rely on actual data, not just what's publicly available online. Comparing schedules isn’t as simple as just looking at what’s listed on a calendar, and I’d appreciate it if you avoid accusing anyone of lying. While I won’t open up all our internal data simply to prove a point, you should understand that these matters involve far more than public listings.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the idea of a full-time pro-sports team as an anchor tenant. My point is that securing this requires more than adding a name to a proposal, it involves navigating existing, fully-executed contracts that necessitate sign-off.

I’m open to supporting this direction, but a formal discussion would be beneficial to gain a clear understanding of the impact on our current operations before we move forward.

I've been accusing the arena of lying about how busy it is for over a decade and I'm not apologizing for calling a lie a lie. Every arena will have some private events not published so that's not an excuse.

The fact of the matter is, we the taxpayers own the venue and we need more accountability in how it's ran. A sports team in the venue, even minor league is a better use of the public venue than sitting empty 80% of the time. All events create activity, tax revenue, etc. and it sitting empty most nights is not in the best interest of it's owners.

We are the only major arena in the Midwest without any sports tenant and the only arena in the entire country with a bigger capacity without a team is Oakland and it is a 1966 venue that was the long time home of the warriors. I'm tired of excuses. If the city wants the WNBA in the venue, then it needs to happen. AEG should have lost their contact years ago when it became obvious that that lied about their efforts to arrest an NBA/NHL team.

[Link2]

The sports commission is the middle man here between the league and potential ownership group. I have insight to this because of my position within ASM.

What am I minimizing? Nothing has been agreed upon regarding the venue at point in time. Why are you making statements that are pure speculation as fact?

I'm in favor of a WNBA team coming to Kansas City, but this has all been rushed along over the last several weeks and there are many, more serious conversations to be had regarding several topics, the venue is one of them.

I am sorry you don't have the insight you think you do.

You're clearly not over things from the political section of this forum but that doesn't change the fact that I took a new role 6 months ago that not only gives me insight, but will require my cooperation in order to make T-Mobile Center the home to any pro-sports team.

This seems personal for you towards me, good luck with that.

Weird to bring up politics, but okay...

Such a strange flex, and not at all true as far as the authority you think you have in this situation. Very naive of you, but good luck with that

[DColeKC]

@dcole - Isn't ASM still on the hook for ~$10M in annual maintenance/operating costs if a pro-sports tenant doesn't exist, per the OG agreement? Does the city still enforce that agreement?

Essentially all maintenance and operating costs are paid for out of the revenue generated where a certain percentage is placed into a capital reserve fund. There's a revenue sharing agreement with the city which has worked out in a positive way for the city every year so far. In the event the maintenance and operating costs are not fully covered by the capital reserve fund, the city is responsible for covering 65% of the shortfall. I'm not aware of this ever being the case since opening.

There are a few ways this could be impacted with a full-time sports anchored tenant. Rent plus revenue-sharing model would be the most common with ASM still handling the day-to-day operations and maintenance of the facility, including scheduling and guests services while the team focuses on team related activities only. This brings another party to the table to share in major capital expenditures too.

[DColeKC]

I am sorry you don't have the insight you think you do.

You're clearly not over things from the political section of this forum but that doesn't change the fact that I took a new role 6 months ago that not only gives me insight, but will require my cooperation in order to make T-Mobile Center the home to any pro-sports team.

This seems personal for you towards me, good luck with that.

Weird to bring up politics, but okay...

Such a strange flex, and not at all true as far as the authority you think you have in this situation. Very naive of you, but good luck with that

How about I send you a private message, and we can meet in person the next time I'm in town? I’m open to sharing who I am. It seems like there’s more focus on discrediting my input than having a constructive conversation.

While the final decision isn’t mine, it does rest with my boss, and I’m one of the few who report directly to them. My role includes advising leadership on how decisions like this could impact our interests, both positively and negatively.

And politics were brought up because you and I went back and forth in the politics forum 2 years ago. It's clear you've never gotten over that.

[DColeKC]

You can stop spreading this lie any year now.

Just take a quick look and we aren't even top 10 in the Midwest for dates booked.

Did a quick look at the calendar for Des Moines, Omaha, St Louis, Chicago, etc for between now and March 1 all have 40-50% of their dates booked, Chicago over 60%, while KC is at ... 15% of dates booked. And these cities are getting the same concerts,comedian, monster truck, etc tours that we are getting and often more like I saw several were getting Disney on Ice. Heck, even independence is at 39% dates booked.

It's such a BS excuse that we have to leave t Mobile team free to book concerts that Omaha, Des Moines, and STL are also booking despite having teams in their arenas

We rely on actual data, not just what's publicly available online. Comparing schedules isn’t as simple as just looking at what’s listed on a calendar, and I’d appreciate it if you avoid accusing anyone of lying. While I won’t open up all our internal data simply to prove a point, you should understand that these matters involve far more than public listings.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the idea of a full-time pro-sports team as an anchor tenant. My point is that securing this requires more than adding a name to a proposal, it involves navigating existing, fully-executed contracts that necessitate sign-off.

I’m open to supporting this direction, but a formal discussion would be beneficial to gain a clear understanding of the impact on our current operations before we move forward.

I've been accusing the arena of lying about how busy it is for over a decade and I'm not apologizing for calling a lie a lie. Every arena will have some private events not published so that's not an excuse.

The fact of the matter is, we the taxpayers own the venue and we need more accountability in how it's ran. A sports team in the venue, even minor league is a better use of the public venue than sitting empty 80% of the time. All events create activity, tax revenue, etc. and it sitting empty most nights is not in the best interest of it's owners.

We are the only major arena in the Midwest without any sports tenant and the only arena in the entire country with a bigger capacity without a team is Oakland and it is a 1966 venue that was the long time home of the warriors. I'm tired of excuses. If the city wants the WNBA in the venue, then it needs to happen. AEG should have lost their contact years ago when it became obvious that that lied about their efforts to arrest an NBA/NHL team.

The arena does over 180 events each year on average. The arena has worked out very well for tax payers, generating almost 10 million dollars of unexpected revenue for the city. The city has hired a professional company that specializes in running these types of venues for a reason.

ASM never promised to secure any full-time tenant for the arena. They were awarded the contract to operate the facility and book diverse events to serve the community. The arena has surpassed exceptions despite not having a sports anchor. Another baseless accusation from you.

[GRID]

We rely on actual data, not just what's publicly available online. Comparing schedules isn’t as simple as just looking at what’s listed on a calendar, and I’d appreciate it if you avoid accusing anyone of lying. While I won’t open up all our internal data simply to prove a point, you should understand that these matters involve far more than public listings.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the idea of a full-time pro-sports team as an anchor tenant. My point is that securing this requires more than adding a name to a proposal, it involves navigating existing, fully-executed contracts that necessitate sign-off.

I’m open to supporting this direction, but a formal discussion would be beneficial to gain a clear understanding of the impact on our current operations before we move forward.

I've been accusing the arena of lying about how busy it is for over a decade and I'm not apologizing for calling a lie a lie. Every arena will have some private events not published so that's not an excuse.

The fact of the matter is, we the taxpayers own the venue and we need more accountability in how it's ran. A sports team in the venue, even minor league is a better use of the public venue than sitting empty 80% of the time. All events create activity, tax revenue, etc. and it sitting empty most nights is not in the best interest of it's owners.

We are the only major arena in the Midwest without any sports tenant and the only arena in the entire country with a bigger capacity without a team is Oakland and it is a 1966 venue that was the long time home of the warriors. I'm tired of excuses. If the city wants the WNBA in the venue, then it needs to happen. AEG should have lost their contact years ago when it became obvious that that lied about their efforts to arrest an NBA/NHL team.

The arena does over 180 events each year on average. The arena has worked out very well for tax payers, generating almost 10 million dollars of unexpected revenue for the city. The city has hired a professional company that specializes in running these types of venues for a reason.

ASM never promised to secure any full-time tenant for the arena. They were awarded the contract to operate the facility and book diverse events to serve the community. The arena has surpassed exceptions despite not having a sports anchor. Another baseless accusation from you.

I don't think anybody is arguing the arena is not as busy as any other arena if you take away their sports teams.

An average NBA or NHL team with preseason and playoffs pulls in 800-900k fans. That's almost a million fans. Arenas that have two teams pull in pull in nearly two million fans.

There is just no way to make up that difference in other events. And like I have said before, the busy multi tenant arenas still get the bigger concerts that draw 15k plus.

I think one issue (besides no owner etc) is the company running the arena doesn't have much to gain from having a team in the arena because the team will want all the revenue it generates while taking up more dates and that will also mean less revenue for the city directly from the arena.

However, it's a bit short sighted for the city government to think like this because of the intangible effects of having a million more people coming downtown every year. I would think the P&L District would understand that a pro team in the arena would be extremely beneficial to them, much more so than any number of the little bookings they have.

That is such a nice arena to not have a pro tenant.

I know this is out of your hands. You can't bring a team to KC. But I just don't see how that arena is drawing anywhere near the same number of people that arenas with teams do. Even minor league teams.

[GRID]

Denver's arena has NHL, NBA and NLL. And their Lacrosse teams often outdraws their NBA/NHL teams.

looking at their schedule, they have an event nearly every night in Nov with events that likely average near sellouts.

Compared to that, T-Mobile is barely used.

[DColeKC]

I've been accusing the arena of lying about how busy it is for over a decade and I'm not apologizing for calling a lie a lie. Every arena will have some private events not published so that's not an excuse.

The fact of the matter is, we the taxpayers own the venue and we need more accountability in how it's ran. A sports team in the venue, even minor league is a better use of the public venue than sitting empty 80% of the time. All events create activity, tax revenue, etc. and it sitting empty most nights is not in the best interest of it's owners.

We are the only major arena in the Midwest without any sports tenant and the only arena in the entire country with a bigger capacity without a team is Oakland and it is a 1966 venue that was the long time home of the warriors. I'm tired of excuses. If the city wants the WNBA in the venue, then it needs to happen. AEG should have lost their contact years ago when it became obvious that that lied about their efforts to arrest an NBA/NHL team.

The arena does over 180 events each year on average. The arena has worked out very well for tax payers, generating almost 10 million dollars of unexpected revenue for the city. The city has hired a professional company that specializes in running these types of venues for a reason.

ASM never promised to secure any full-time tenant for the arena. They were awarded the contract to operate the facility and book diverse events to serve the community. The arena has surpassed exceptions despite not having a sports anchor. Another baseless accusation from you.

I don't think anybody is arguing the arena is not as busy as any other arena if you take away their sports teams.

An average NBA or NHL team with preseason and playoffs pulls in 800-900k fans. That's almost a million fans. Arenas that have two teams pull in pull in nearly two million fans.

There is just no way to make up that difference in other events. And like I have said before, the busy multi tenant arenas still get the bigger concerts that draw 15k plus.

I think one issue (besides no owner etc) is the company running the arena doesn't have much to gain from having a team in the arena because the team will want all the revenue it generates while taking up more dates and that will also mean less revenue for the city directly from the arena.

However, it's a bit short sighted for the city government to think like this because of the intangible effects of having a million more people coming downtown every year. I would think the P&L District would understand that a pro team in the arena would be extremely beneficial to them, much more so than any number of the little bookings they have.

That is such a nice arena to not have a pro tenant.

I know this is out of your hands. You can't bring a team to KC. But I just don't see how that arena is drawing anywhere near the same number of people that arenas with teams do. Even minor league teams.

To be honest, a NBA team is a different conversation simply due to the established popularity of the league. Having a WNBA team as a full-time tenant could be a great thing. As you mentioned, other cities make it all work with multiple teams occupying the same arenas. Some of those cities are simply hot markets where touring acts will work around their schedules where as Kansas City is a market that often has to route with Denver, Chicago, Omaha etc with Denver and Chicago being the anchor dates. I have arenas like this in my region including Milwaukee.

A WNBA team on average is going to bring 200,000 people downtown for their season which is no small feat. Almost 800,000 for NBA.

My only rub so far in this process is the fact that a few people got out ahead of their skis here on assumptions.