GO ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KC_Ari]

It felt pretty damn empty and disappointing for a summer weekend. In my opinion, the access to the games broadcast is part of this. But:

It felt terrible for me and those who I brought with that rarely (if ever) are able to go to a game. We traveled through non-descript industrial parks once exiting I-70 to the point where those whom I was bringing to the game didn't even know they were close to the stadiums. (This was coming from the quickest route via Google from downtown, even one of the people I brought with mentioned the east village stadium site.)

I've journeyed more from the south than the north to Royals games and it was straight up depressing coming from downtown.

Most of the attendees to the game seemed to be in the 30-40 demographic.

Yeah, almost every route to the stadiums is embarrassing honestly. US-40, Raytown Road, Leeds, Blue Ridge etc. All just make KC look like a really shitty town.

When you say the average age is 30-40, are you talking about those with kids or those there without kids? I just don't see a lot of younger people under 30 or even 40 at Royals games without kids. I know for sure DC games draw way more of the 20's-30's and even 40's without kids. Actually you really don't even see near as many kids at Nats games except on Sundays which is a day dedicated to families and kids. There are a lot, but it's not like Royals games. I think the Royals depend way too much on that demographic alone (families with kids). I think it's great to appeal to that demographic, but you have to appeal to others as well and I think a downtown stadium would drastically improve that.

My perspective is definitely skewed toward kids and older people.That is the vast majority of what you see on crown vision between innings on the dance cams, etc. Most are with kids or older couples because that is what gets reactions. From that and the people around it us, it seemed to be a middle aged crowd. There were some of the younger crowd without kids (myself included) but not overwhelming numbers.

Don't get me wrong though, I still had a great time and would recommend it to anyone. I wish more of the crowd was into it, but the ones that were serious were a bit older. A win doesn't hurt either.

The drive took ~15 minutes for those that care.

[GRID]

Jesus Grid.

Attendance IS trending upwards.

More importantly though, the real boost typically comes in the seasons following an unexpected winning season. It's not just about immediate numbers - it's about forming new habits as more fans hop on the bandwagon and attend multiple games. Winning seasons do impact attendance and this effect can last for years, ESPECIALLY thanks to the significant investments in the roster. It just takes time. Thankfully Sherman is more patient with this stuff than you.

Come on. If you don't think the Royals should be drawing a few more fans, then I just don't know what to tell you. Anyway.

I'm trying to document more. I go to the Navy Yard often, but don't really take a lot of pics. I'm trying to take pics so that I have them to help me convince those that I argue with that KC could have something more like what DC (and many other cities) have.

And I do think that if KC were to build that stadium in the east crossroads as originally envisioned, that KC WOULD SHOW UP in very high numbers. Or at least in respectable MLB numbers. Even when the teams is not playing great etc. Just have to get the stadium built first.

There is no reason why this could not exist in KC. There is no reason the Royals couldn't average closer to the average of its peer MLB cities (Cincy, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Denver, St Louis etc). KC's east crossroads could look like this most days of the summer.

So I'll post some pics here I have taken at Nats games this year. Feel free to share if you want. FYI, most of these pics are several hours before or after a game.

[aknowledgeableperson]

The teams lack of attendance in the past few years has a primary cause we all know, the won/lost record. And with that a somewhat lack of faith in the team's ownership. This year there is a bump up in attendance and as the season goes on and the team keeps winning I am confident the attendance will keep on the upswing.
If memory serves me well there are three areas of ticket sales: season, group, and individual game sales.
In the past wasn't there an organization, think called Gold Coaters, that pushed season ticket sales for the team? Does this organization still exist? And what are the season ticket sales currently? How do those numbers break down? Full season? Partial season? Corporate? Individual? Sponsors? Every team with good attendance numbers usually has a strong or somewhat strong season ticket base. I'm sure that over these past few years the team's season ticket base has eroded somewhat and it will take time to rebuild.
Group ticket sales are also important. Yes, the tickets are discounted but group sales are butts in the seats, almost all buyers go to the game as opposed to season ticket buyers who may skip games during the season. In the past the team would show the groups attending the game on the scoreboard and dozens of groups, some big some small, would be named. What kind of effort is put forth now to build up the group sales numbers?
Individual game sales are divided between advance sales and walkup sales. If you go to a game how busy are the ticket sales windows?

People talk about the drive to TSC and what surrounds it. Face it, there is a flip side to that. The are people in the burbs who don't like to drive downtown and don't care much for downtown. One thing for sure if there is a downtown stadium in the team's future there will need to be a large investment in public transit to get people from the burbs to the stadium. Especially if the team wants to see average attendance of 25,000 or more.

[shinatoo]

We lost 106 games last year, and while we have a great record, we aren't in first place and, until this week, we haven't played anyone with a winning record. Attendance is probably double what it was last year. It's going to take time. Not only is there no TV coverage but nobody gets the paper anymore or watches local news, so their recent success isn't being shoved in their face. Only people who know the Royals are good again are loyal fans that seek out that knowledge. It takes time to build a market.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Grid, I agree with what you’re saying about that area of town making KC look far more shitty than it really is (when people come in for games).

Was talking about this same exact subject with a bunch of others yesterday. That’s why the Chiefs need to be moved out of there too. The Chiefs draw far more visiting fans (and celebs now) and I cringe that that’s what they see. So yes, I’d rather have them in Kansas where atleast KC will come off looking way cleaner. It’s not our best option like downtown would be, but it’s better than Truman.

[GRID]

so many excuses as to why the Royals can't draw fans. Doesn't matter what the reasons are, they are not drawing fans.

I'll post this again. The Royals can't even draw anywhere near MLB average crowds on summer Saturdays and I think the stadium has a lot to do with it. Lot's of teams don't have great records and have not done anything in the playoffs for decades, but they still draw in fans on days like Saturdays.

Cincy 40k
Pittsburgh 30k
DC 34k
Tampa 21k (Tampa has notorious attendance problems for known reasons, mainly the dome and the location of the dome far from the metro population)
White Sox 26k
Detroit 32k
St Louis 35k
Angles 37k
Miami 16k (Miami will never draw the younger demographic in large numbers, they would rather be at places like Miami Beach)
San Diego 43k
Houston 34k
Yankees 48k
Boston 35k
Baltimore 37k
Atlanta 41k
Toronto 37k
Cleveland 38k
Mets 31k
Milwaukee 36k
Cubs 36k
Seattle 40k
Philly 45k
SF 35k
Dodgers 50k
Minneapolis 31k
Arizona 32k
Denver 38k
Texas 35k
KC 18k

And the Royals don't draw well even when relatively good. They have to be literally be the best team in MLB all year long to draw 3/4 of what a city like Milwaukee or San Diego or Denver or St Louis draw for a 500 team.

I guess I'm a long time die hard Royals fan. I will see KC play in probably 4 different cities this year, which is typical. Kind of tired of how bandwagon KC is while at the same time dealing with the ongoing debate of trying to show that kC desperately needs a new stadium if there is any long term future for the team in KC.

I even read many comments after wins at Kauffman in front of 20k people. "See, we don't need a stadium" or "this should put the talk of a new stadium to bed for a while". People actually think the Royals are drawing well and that the stadium is fine. Again, it's exhausting.

[phuqueue]

so many excuses as to why the Royals can't draw fans. Doesn't matter what the reasons are, they are not drawing fans.

"Stop making excuses for Royals attendance --"

The Royals can't even draw anywhere near MLB average crowds on summer Saturdays and I think the stadium has a lot to do with it.

"-- and now let me offer my excuse for Royals attendance"

Average attendance is already up 10% over last year and will continue to rise if the team continues to play well, notwithstanding whatever one specific day's attendance you want to cherry pick to make a point. The team has been at the bottom of the league for years in terms of both performance and attendance (hmm I wonder if there might be a correlation here). You don't come back from that overnight.

[GRID]

Grid, I agree with what you’re saying about that area of town making KC look far more shitty than it really is (when people come in for games).

Was talking about this same exact subject with a bunch of others yesterday. That’s why the Chiefs need to be moved out of there too. The Chiefs draw far more visiting fans (and celebs now) and I cringe that that’s what they see. So yes, I’d rather have them in Kansas where atleast KC will come off looking way cleaner. It’s not our best option like downtown would be, but it’s better than Truman.

I'm just not sure the continued deterioration of Jackson County is in the best interest of KC.

I would much rather see a new stadium built there and the area rebuilt, transit investment etc.

Not to mention the economic impact. The more of KC's economy that moves to the KS side makes it that much more difficult for downtown KCMO to thrive.

[GRID]

The Royals drew 24k on a Monday night? Yankees effect?

[shinatoo]

The Royals drew 24k on a Monday night? Yankees effect?

The Yankees are here every year. Add it to the average.

Last year we drew 20k average for the Yankees

[dukuboy1]

People buying in a bit more. But winning solves most problems. The bandwagon jumpers are starting to pile up now and boost the attendance.

[Chris Stritzel]

Royals avoided being swept by the Yankees today. We won 4-3.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Massive, desperately needed win with the Dodgers looming for the next 3 games.

[phuqueue]

It's not the expense. It's really just people aren't fully bought in yet still, and all the sports fans still live in Chiefs gaga land now.

I mean the dude above on this very forum just said he knows they're on pace for 100 wins but thinks they'll only win 82.

82 wins was my pre season prediction and I'm sticking to it. Baseball is very streaky. 2014 we were on pace for close to 100 wins at the all star break and barely made the wild card with 89 wins.

Hasn't stopped me from going to games and I'll be thrilled if we get 100 wins. Will be the first team ever to go from 100 losses to 100 wins in one season.

The Royals were two games over .500 at the ASB in 2014, on pace for 82 or 83 wins. They actually fell back under .500 coming out of the break. It was a hot streak that got them up to 89 wins, not a cold streak that brought them down to that.

I do agree that it's way too premature to extrapolate the current pace to a final season win total, though. These Royals tied with Cleveland 1988 for the best fifty game start by a team coming off a 100 loss season, and that Cleveland team finished with only 78 wins. There is a lot to like about this team, not least of which being the wins they've already banked (they didn't win their 32nd game last year until July 30, in the middle of that wildly improbable seven game winning streak), but there are also some red flags. Sooner or later, both corner outfielders batting below the Mendoza line will catch up to them, and the large splits between batting with men on [.304/.366/.481/.848] vs. with the bases empty [.215/.272/.360/.632] will regress, but baseball is streaky, like you said, so there's no telling whether that's going to start happening tomorrow or if they can ride it out all season long.

I want to be optimistic and call 82 wins too conservative, but I would be very (pleasantly) surprised to see this team reach 100 wins, despite their current pace. I think 82 wins could be too conservative because the pitching looks comparatively legit, even if there are question marks around the offense. I want to believe the pitching is strong enough -- and will remain strong enough -- to at least defend the cushion of games over .500 that they've already built up even if the offense regresses. If they went only .500 from here on out, that would put them at 87 or 88 wins, which would still be a dramatic improvement over last year (an improvement that I 100% did not believe was possible coming into the season, and I probably posted as much in this very thread). That would have won the division last year (probably won't this year unless Cleveland stumbles) and has been good enough to capture a wild card in some seasons. I don't really know what I think the final win total will be, but Fangraphs puts the Royals at 61.8% to make the playoffs in some capacity, which feels about right at this point in time.

Well here's a post that has aged poorly. Since I wrote this, the Royals are 9-15, have won back to back games only twice (including the last couple of the eight game winning streak they were in the middle of at the time I posted it), need a win today to avoid being swept by the A's (who were on an eight game losing streak coming into this series), and the pitching has really gone to shit (5+ runs allowed in eleven of those 24 games after 5+ runs allowed in 13 of the preceding 51 games; two of those 5+ run games have just been allowed to the A's, who rank 30th in MLB in runs scored). In the past month, which comprises roughly 1/3 of the season to date, the Royals have looked very much like the team they were expected to be coming into the season and not at all like the team that was "on pace" for 100+ wins as of late May. They are no longer in second place and have lost five games on Cleveland in the divisional race, and if they maintain the pace they've been on since their eight game winning streak ended in Tampa, they will be under .500 in less than two more weeks. Fangraphs currently puts them at 40% to make the playoffs, which is starting to feel generous. Here's hoping they aren't really as bad as they've looked lately (their run differential over this stretch would suggest they should be more like 11-13 instead of 9-15, so I guess that's...something), but at this point it should be clear enough to anyone who wasn't sure before that they were never as good as they looked in April or May either.

[GRID]

20k tonight? That's embarrassing.

I actually thought this series would sell out or at least have 2-3 games of 30-35k. Wishful thinking I guess.

Is KC still a MLB town or not? Really starting to wonder.

[im2kull]

20k tonight? That's embarrassing.

I actually thought this series would sell out or at least have 2-3 games of 30-35k. Wishful thinking I guess.

Is KC still a MLB town or not? Really starting to wonder.

You can't expect large crowds for a winning team after nearly a decade of 100+ loss seasons. You have to "win" the crowds back, and it'll take time.

[GRID]

The Rockies have not done much better and they didn't win the world series 8 years ago. Hell, they have never won a WS.

They are averaging 30k a game this year and probably sell out most weekend games.

I can see a reason why the Royals would average 21-25 and be closer to Cincy, Minnesota, Detroit etc. But still averaging barley 18k is not great and not having large crowds for this series at least is very bizarre honestly. I don't care what past years have been like. This series would draw huge crowds in any other market under the same circumstances (except maybe Tampa).

[TheUrbanRoo]

The Rockies have not done much better and they didn't win the world series 8 years ago. Hell, they have never won a WS.

They are averaging 30k a game this year and probably sell out most weekend games.

I can see a reason why the Royals would average 21-25 and be closer to Cincy, Minnesota, Detroit etc. But still averaging barley 18k is not great and not having large crowds for this series at least is very bizarre honestly. I don't care what past years have been like. This series would draw huge crowds in any other market under the same circumstances (except maybe Tampa).

We know why the Rockies are better off. It's because they're downtown and Royals aren't. It's more fun, cool, things to do even if they suck.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Denver does have a metro area with about 1.2M more people, just saying. And has had a better W?L record for the past few years than the Royals. The Royals do have a steep hill to climb and it is going to take more than one season to turn attendance around. Need to build up season ticket base and group sales and that takes time.
It seems that with recent talk from the team they will honor the TSC lease until it runs out.

[shinatoo]

It was hot as two rats in a f***ing wool sock last night with a forecast for a pleasant evening tonight and tomorrow. Plus tonight is the Bo Jackson HOF induction, so I think most people who would have gone last night would prefer to attend tonight or tomorrow (cool bobblehead tomorrow too).

Despite what Chicken GRIDle says, attendance is growing, and if we keep winning it will be a tough ticket to get.