KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[WoodDraw]

Out of curiosity, what does the shut down entail? As the system expands, can new segments be added without system wide disruption?

[langosta]

Out of curiosity, what does the shut down entail? As the system expands, can new segments be added without system wide disruption?

Tying in new tracks, installing new catenary. Removing the old switch.

In the future, stub tracks would help. I’m visit a city now that install switches and stub tracks where they think future extensions might branch off.

[WoodDraw]

Out of curiosity, what does the shut down entail? As the system expands, can new segments be added without system wide disruption?

Tying in new tracks, installing new catenary. Removing the old switch.

In the future, stub tracks would help. I’m visit a city now that install switches and stub tracks where they think future extensions might branch off.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I knew catenary and connecting tracks would require a shut down, just didn't expect a month. Is some of that for safety before they reopen to revenue or is that the whole construction time?

[KCPowercat]

Out of curiosity, what does the shut down entail? As the system expands, can new segments be added without system wide disruption?

Tying in new tracks, installing new catenary. Removing the old switch.

In the future, stub tracks would help. I’m visit a city now that install switches and stub tracks where they think future extensions might branch off.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I knew catenary and connecting tracks would require a shut down, just didn't expect a month. Is some of that for safety before they reopen to revenue or is that the whole construction time?

I mean for the extension it's a pretty big change to switch over the Union Station track to go further on the northbound run, that's going to take a lot of time.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/5YKuwvjzCDQe3rA26

[langosta]

Tying in new tracks, installing new catenary. Removing the old switch.

In the future, stub tracks would help. I’m visit a city now that install switches and stub tracks where they think future extensions might branch off.

Interesting, thanks. I guess I knew catenary and connecting tracks would require a shut down, just didn't expect a month. Is some of that for safety before they reopen to revenue or is that the whole construction time?

I mean for the extension it's a pretty big change to switch over the Union Station track to go further on the northbound run, that's going to take a lot of time.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/5YKuwvjzCDQe3rA26

In Europe last month I visited a line undergoing expansion. They set the tracks, tied it in, poured a mat slab, and were running trains before pouring the full immersive slab. I’m sure it ends up being more expensive to do that but it’s an approach to keep a very active system moving.

[WoodDraw]

Maybe they can use the the time to knock out any deferred maintenance. This is an area I know nothing about. Just thought a month was long.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Did we ever get any final clarification on what’s going to be dedicated lane now and what isn’t? Thought they were going it make practically all of Main dedicated now

[langosta]

Did we ever get any final clarification on what’s going to be dedicated lane now and what isn’t? Thought they were going it make practically all of Main dedicated now

Google or go to the website

[smh]

Did we ever get any final clarification on what’s going to be dedicated lane now and what isn’t? Thought they were going it make practically all of Main dedicated now

A lot of it will be marked as streetcar only it looks like, but with driveways and turns it will not function as such. Putting this thing at the curb is a real design mistake in the long-term, but folks didn't want to hear it five years ago.

[DaveKCMO]

Did we ever get any final clarification on what’s going to be dedicated lane now and what isn’t? Thought they were going it make practically all of Main dedicated now

A lot of it will be marked as streetcar only it looks like, but with driveways and turns it will not function as such. Putting this thing at the curb is a real design mistake in the long-term, but folks didn't want to hear it five years ago.

The two of us were Team Center Running!

[smh]

Did we ever get any final clarification on what’s going to be dedicated lane now and what isn’t? Thought they were going it make practically all of Main dedicated now

A lot of it will be marked as streetcar only it looks like, but with driveways and turns it will not function as such. Putting this thing at the curb is a real design mistake in the long-term, but folks didn't want to hear it five years ago.

The two of us were Team Center Running!

Lol yes I think we constituted the entire team, hahaha.

[GRID]

Why didn't the city just build it center running anyway? Vote wouldn't pass?

Why do something so wrong that will effect how transit functions in the city for generations that will be nearly impossible to fix in the future?

[beautyfromashes]

Why didn't the city just build it center running anyway? Vote wouldn't pass?

Why do something so wrong that will effect how transit functions in the city for generations that will be nearly impossible to fix in the future?

Because the streetcar isn't meant to be a mass transit line for suburbanites to get to the city. If that was what was wanted, it wouldn't have been a neighborhood-paid-for line. The neighborhood wanted a development and activity generating line, and that's what it will, hopefully, be.

[GRID]

Why didn't the city just build it center running anyway? Vote wouldn't pass?

Why do something so wrong that will effect how transit functions in the city for generations that will be nearly impossible to fix in the future?

Because the streetcar isn't meant to be a mass transit line for suburbanites to get to the city. If that was what was wanted, it wouldn't have been a neighborhood-paid-for line. The neighborhood wanted a development and activity generating line, and that's what it will, hopefully, be.

I think it's obvious that KC will never have a reginal rail system.

The reasons to make it center running are not about suburban commuters. It's about getting rid of the parking and making the trams faster and using all that right of way to make wider sidewaks, bike lanes etc.

Take away parking, make the track center running and you could have truly rebuilt Main into a wonderful pedestrian/transit corridor.

What's done is done. I'm sure it will be fine. It just could have been done differently, but it would have cost more I suppose to truly rebuild main street. But I have never really understood the idea of tearing up Main for many years only to slap on curb running rail. I would have found the extra money to do a full rebuild of Main, sidewalks, street lighting, landscaping, everything. That was literally once in a lifetime to rebuild the main corridor of your entire city. I mean you are already doing a very invasive construction project to redo utilities under main. It would not have been a huge deal to to a full rebuild of Main at the same time.

I'm still excited for what's being done though. There should be more development occurring along the route though. But that seems to be more of a problem with the city than then the streetcar line.

[langosta]

Why didn't the city just build it center running anyway? Vote wouldn't pass?

Why do something so wrong that will effect how transit functions in the city for generations that will be nearly impossible to fix in the future?

Because the streetcar isn't meant to be a mass transit line for suburbanites to get to the city. If that was what was wanted, it wouldn't have been a neighborhood-paid-for line. The neighborhood wanted a development and activity generating line, and that's what it will, hopefully, be.

I think it's obvious that KC will never have a reginal rail system.

The reasons to make it center running are not about suburban commuters. It's about getting rid of the parking and making the trams faster and using all that right of way to make wider sidewaks, bike lanes etc.

Take away parking, make the track center running and you could have truly rebuilt Main into a wonderful pedestrian/transit corridor.

What's done is done. I'm sure it will be fine. It just could have been differently, but it would have cost more I suppose to truly rebuild main street. But I have never really understood the idea of tearing up Main for many years only to slap on curb running rail. I would have found the extra money to do a full rebuild of Main, sidewalks, street lighting, everything. That was literally once in a lifetime to rebuild the main corridor of your entire city. I mean you are already doing a very invasive construction project to redo utilities under main. It would not have been a huge deal to to a full rebuild of Main at the same time.

I'm still excited for what's being done though. There should be more development occurring along the route though. But that seems to be more of a problem with the city than then the streetcar line.

Center running would have been better for the neighborhoods (faster travel, less delays, fewer conflicts, potential for more frequency)

[smh]

Why didn't the city just build it center running anyway? Vote wouldn't pass?

Why do something so wrong that will effect how transit functions in the city for generations that will be nearly impossible to fix in the future?

I don't think it was related to the vote, there was a study (can't immediately recall which one) that looked at options along the corridor and concluded that curb running was preferred.

IIRC, part of that analysis was that center running would not save sufficient time along the route to make the increased operational complexity worth it because of the overall lack of traffic on Main St. I recall thinking that seemed short sighted at the time and that really the team needed to weight reliability of the service heavier versus speed/trip duration.

[smh]

Why didn't the city just build it center running anyway? Vote wouldn't pass?

Why do something so wrong that will effect how transit functions in the city for generations that will be nearly impossible to fix in the future?

Because the streetcar isn't meant to be a mass transit line for suburbanites to get to the city. If that was what was wanted, it wouldn't have been a neighborhood-paid-for line. The neighborhood wanted a development and activity generating line, and that's what it will, hopefully, be.

I think it's obvious that KC will never have a reginal rail system.

The reasons to make it center running are not about suburban commuters. It's about getting rid of the parking and making the trams faster and using all that right of way to make wider sidewaks, bike lanes etc.

Take away parking, make the track center running and you could have truly rebuilt Main into a wonderful pedestrian/transit corridor.

What's done is done. I'm sure it will be fine. It just could have been done differently, but it would have cost more I suppose to truly rebuild main street. But I have never really understood the idea of tearing up Main for many years only to slap on curb running rail. I would have found the extra money to do a full rebuild of Main, sidewalks, street lighting, landscaping, everything. That was literally once in a lifetime to rebuild the main corridor of your entire city. I mean you are already doing a very invasive construction project to redo utilities under main. It would not have been a huge deal to to a full rebuild of Main at the same time.

I'm still excited for what's being done though. There should be more development occurring along the route though. But that seems to be more of a problem with the city than then the streetcar line.

Agree with all of this. By putting the track at the curb the city has really limited its options along Main St in the future.

[GRID]

Main has very little traffic, which is why it could easily be one through lane in each direction, but take away the parking and you still have room from four lanes (two of which can be shared turn lanes). It was a six lane street.

No matter how low the traffic volumes are, having trams share the RoW with cars is a bad idea. But I thought the whole idea was to make Main more pedestrian friendly, so that means slowing down the cars that are using Main. You actually want the trams to move faster than the cars.

Again, what's done is done. Can't do anything about it now. Now just build it up and re-build the actual Main Street infrastructure (sidewalks etc) one block at a time I guess.

[beautyfromashes]

They never would have taken away parking and added sidewalk space. Just wouldn’t have happened. Sure, center-running might be quicker, but for such a short line, not that much. Maybe it takes 7 minutes to get from Midtown to downtown instead of 5. People really want the speed so that it becomes viable for Waldo or further. At that distance, side running might add 5-10 minutes to a commute which might make it non-viable. But, again, this isn’t a commuter rail. The neighborhood paid for it and we/they wanted something that would, #1 entice developmemt, #2 increase activity into and out of the neighborhood through walkability and #3 not disturb our ability to get to our houses when using car transportation. No one wants to live on a Southwest Trafficway where you can’t turn left on any roads or have to turn right and turn around to get to your house. I think side running also makes it easier to draw people off the streetcar to businesses along the line.

[langosta]

I have visited many cities where there is both center running and an ability to make left hand turns. center running LRT and streetcar type systems.

Literal mph speed between stops would have been increased some but reliability would have been dramatically increased. The little Main Street line seems to frequently (when I ride it) have 1-10 minute unplanned stops because of mis parked vehicles or other issues. Or the train slows to a crawl because they think someone is going to pull out or is too close to the line. Could have avoided these issues with center running and made the system better for the neighborhoods that it serves.