Downtown Baseball Stadium

[TheUrbanRoo]

^If attendance ends up somehow being down compared to last season, then boy, Kauffman is toast

[aknowledgeableperson]

If people love the current stadium so much, maybe they should actually attend games.

Right now they are about 500 over last year's average for the season which depending on which point you want to argue is either a good sign or a bad sign. Given the team's won/loss record for the last few years I would say there are those who are taking a wait and see approach to attending a game or two or more. Team won't be back home until next Friday the 31st. From that point on will have to see how it goes to make a better judgement.
As others have said the season ticket base is low so it takes a lot to grow attendance on a game-by-game basis. It is gonna take some time to build attendance back up, guess you expect a 30,000 plus average right this minute. In 2015 the team averaged over 30,000, 10th in the league, which given our market size and stadium seating is a decent average.

[KCPowercat]

Here my anecdote about downtown voters.

Niece and nephew, 25-30, live by 39th St, local sports fans, Sporting, Current, Chiefs.

BIG local boosters, local restaurants, local coffee, local music/venues, KCMO boosters.

They were all for downtown baseball until the team flipped to EC, now they are 100% against, because LOCAL.

Yeah, these are the people you don’t waste time on. They feel virtuous by doing their part and shopping local when they can but refuse to see the big picture. They’ll still attend the games at the new stadium even if it displaces their very favorite local shop.

Small group of people as well. Loud but small.

This is a very dumb approach. These are the people needed to be won over as they are advocates for downtown to the rest of the metro. Get them on the downtown park side, they help promote more yes votes.

[DColeKC]

Here my anecdote about downtown voters.

Niece and nephew, 25-30, live by 39th St, local sports fans, Sporting, Current, Chiefs.

BIG local boosters, local restaurants, local coffee, local music/venues, KCMO boosters.

They were all for downtown baseball until the team flipped to EC, now they are 100% against, because LOCAL.

Yeah, these are the people you don’t waste time on. They feel virtuous by doing their part and shopping local when they can but refuse to see the big picture. They’ll still attend the games at the new stadium even if it displaces their very favorite local shop.

Small group of people as well. Loud but small.

This is a very dumb approach. These are the people needed to be won over as they are advocates for downtown to the rest of the metro. Get them on the downtown park side, they help promote more yes votes.

What’s dumb is wasting time and energy trying to flip votes that aren’t going to flip. These are not the people needed and they will never advocate for publicly subsidizing mega projects that require some local businesses to move or close.

Yes, the ideal location will mean some local businesses will have to move. Yes, the royals should pay for that move and all costs associated. Yes, some businesses will not want to move, they should be fairly compensated and left to make their own decisions on if they want to open back up in a different spot or not.

Stop being pussies and trying to make everyone happy. There will be 30% or more of the population who will not be happy with any new stadium, so move on and move past them. This concept that everyone gets a say and there shall be no collateral damage is ridiculous. You don’t even need another vote but if they go that route, you’ve only got to flip a handful of votes and those people aren’t worried about anything besides their own personal issues like parking and traffic. Focus on those people because that’s where the victory is, not with class-warfare, local Vs corporate people.

Disclaimer: These are my own opinions, not that of any particular company or involved party.

[WoodDraw]

Here my anecdote about downtown voters.

Niece and nephew, 25-30, live by 39th St, local sports fans, Sporting, Current, Chiefs.

BIG local boosters, local restaurants, local coffee, local music/venues, KCMO boosters.

They were all for downtown baseball until the team flipped to EC, now they are 100% against, because LOCAL.

Yeah, these are the people you don’t waste time on. They feel virtuous by doing their part and shopping local when they can but refuse to see the big picture. They’ll still attend the games at the new stadium even if it displaces their very favorite local shop.

Small group of people as well. Loud but small.

This is a very dumb approach. These are the people needed to be won over as they are advocates for downtown to the rest of the metro. Get them on the downtown park side, they help promote more yes votes.

Kinda funny people involved in a terrible vote failure lecture people on what to do.

[DColeKC]

Yeah, these are the people you don’t waste time on. They feel virtuous by doing their part and shopping local when they can but refuse to see the big picture. They’ll still attend the games at the new stadium even if it displaces their very favorite local shop.

Small group of people as well. Loud but small.

This is a very dumb approach. These are the people needed to be won over as they are advocates for downtown to the rest of the metro. Get them on the downtown park side, they help promote more yes votes.

Kinda funny people involved in a terrible vote failure lecture people on what to do.

Kinda funny you think I was involved in the last vote that failed. I’m not lecturing anyone, I’m sharing my opinion which is still allowed here I believe, even if some think it’s “funny” and “dumb”.

[aknowledgeableperson]

[What’s dumb is wasting time and energy trying to flip votes that aren’t going to flip. These are not the people needed and they will never advocate for publicly subsidizing mega projects that require some local businesses to move or close.

Yes, it is your opinion but it is my opinion that yours a losing one. When a party loses an election and wants to win the next one that party needs to know why it lost if it wants to go to the voters again. Yes, it may be a waste of time to try to convert all but one should try to get some to switch the voter's opinion. Learning that may help convince others who did not vote at all to vote for your party.

[WoodDraw]

This is a very dumb approach. These are the people needed to be won over as they are advocates for downtown to the rest of the metro. Get them on the downtown park side, they help promote more yes votes.

Kinda funny people involved in a terrible vote failure lecture people on what to do.

Kinda funny you think I was involved in the last vote that failed. I’m not lecturing anyone, I’m sharing my opinion which is still allowed here I believe, even if some think it’s “funny” and “dumb”.

Weren't you the one claiming to be with everyone as they made the decision? At two light?

[DColeKC]

[What’s dumb is wasting time and energy trying to flip votes that aren’t going to flip. These are not the people needed and they will never advocate for publicly subsidizing mega projects that require some local businesses to move or close.

Yes, it is your opinion but it is my opinion that yours a losing one. When a party loses an election and wants to win the next one that party needs to know why it lost if it wants to go to the voters again. Yes, it may be a waste of time to try to convert all but one should try to get some to switch the voter's opinion. Learning that may help convince others who did not vote at all to vote for your party.

I’m not suggesting minds don’t have to be changed. I’m simply saying don’t waste time, money and resources on the minds that are not willing to be changed. That’s the opposition, treat them as such. Combat their every word with data and positive feedback. Not to gain their vote but to secure the vote of the people that are on the fence and or can be swayed.

Don’t compromise the possibilities of the project because you want the votes of a group of people who don’t care about the project.

[DColeKC]

Kinda funny people involved in a terrible vote failure lecture people on what to do.

Kinda funny you think I was involved in the last vote that failed. I’m not lecturing anyone, I’m sharing my opinion which is still allowed here I believe, even if some think it’s “funny” and “dumb”.

Weren't you the one claiming to be with everyone as they made the decision? At two light?

Claiming? No, I stated I was there. Like in factual terminology not suggestive. A final decision was not made at that moment in time but days later.

Regardless, having knowledge about and being directly involved in the campaign and project are not the same.

The royals shit the bed here. Perhaps they should have sought advice from someone who’s an expert in public private partnerships all across the country from the start. And Frank White is trash. Hot, smelly and toxic trash. The Royals will get out of their lease early due to his negligence.

[WoodDraw]

Well it's too bad they didn't get better advice. Hope they reach out better this time.

[KCPowercat]

Yeah, these are the people you don’t waste time on. They feel virtuous by doing their part and shopping local when they can but refuse to see the big picture. They’ll still attend the games at the new stadium even if it displaces their very favorite local shop.

Small group of people as well. Loud but small.

This is a very dumb approach. These are the people needed to be won over as they are advocates for downtown to the rest of the metro. Get them on the downtown park side, they help promote more yes votes.

What’s dumb is wasting time and energy trying to flip votes that aren’t going to flip. These are not the people needed and they will never advocate for publicly subsidizing mega projects that require some local businesses to move or close.

Yes, the ideal location will mean some local businesses will have to move. Yes, the royals should pay for that move and all costs associated. Yes, some businesses will not want to move, they should be fairly compensated and left to make their own decisions on if they want to open back up in a different spot or not.

Stop being pussies and trying to make everyone happy. There will be 30% or more of the population who will not be happy with any new stadium, so move on and move past them. This concept that everyone gets a say and there shall be no collateral damage is ridiculous. You don’t even need another vote but if they go that route, you’ve only got to flip a handful of votes and those people aren’t worried about anything besides their own personal issues like parking and traffic. Focus on those people because that’s where the victory is, not with class-warfare, local Vs corporate people.

Disclaimer: These are my own opinions, not that of any particular company or involved party.

I'm telling you the people described are not the 30% bucket you are trying to throw them into. They are, in reality, the very voters that would be swayed with a average plan and they would help sway others. Throwing them away is idiotic.

[beautyfromashes]

I'm telling you the people described are not the 30% bucket you are trying to throw them into. They are, in reality, the very voters that would be swayed with a average plan and they would help sway others. Throwing them away is idiotic.

I was adamantly against East Crossroads for several reasons including: capitulation and expansion of Cordish dominance DT, questions about feasibility of site location and removal of major roads and the continued desert of East Village that would continue. But, the major reason it pissed me off the most was the arrogance and "you have to listen to us because we have the answers" of the advocates for that side, especially on this board. I only voted for the EC stadium proposal because of KCPowercat. I've seen on this board that he is pragmatic and an advocate for the neighborhood's best interests and not just that of financial blowback. I figured if he was for it, I could hold my nose as well to some of the bad parts. If another vote does happen, they need to get more advocates like that and silence those who turned a very large portion of downtown residents. The idea to just scrap downtown voters with valid opinions because they didn't see "the EC way" is juvenile. The Royals won't win a downtown stadium until they realize this.

[DColeKC]

I'm telling you the people described are not the 30% bucket you are trying to throw them into. They are, in reality, the very voters that would be swayed with a average plan and they would help sway others. Throwing them away is idiotic.

I was adamantly against East Crossroads for several reasons including: capitulation and expansion of Cordish dominance DT, questions about feasibility of site location and removal of major roads and the continued desert of East Village that would continue. But, the major reason it pissed me off the most was the arrogance and "you have to listen to us because we have the answers" of the advocates for that side, especially on this board. I only voted for the EC stadium proposal because of KCPowercat. I've seen on this board that he is pragmatic and an advocate for the neighborhood's best interests and not just that of financial blowback. I figured if he was for it, I could hold my nose as well to some of the bad parts. If another vote does happen, they need to get more advocates like that and silence those who turned a very large portion of downtown residents. The idea to just scrap downtown voters with valid opinions because they didn't see "the EC way" is juvenile. The Royals won't win a downtown stadium until they realize this.

I don’t think any person should be making voting decisions based on this forum that’s full of biased opinions mixed with personal beef.

I’m here to express my opinions and if those opinions sway the way someone votes that’s not my intention and is most likely influenced not by the content of my opinions but by personal feelings about me. “I don’t like that person so anything they say is bad and wrong”. I’m not going to sugarcoat my own opinions to try and get my way. We are all adults (I think) here.

I do find it funny you were opposed because you didn’t want Cordish to expand its downtown dominance. That’s just a personal beef with them because why wouldn’t we want the only developer to actually do things over the last 20 years to be given the opportunity to do more?! A few on here keep saying they want more developers to do more downtown and not just Cordish but it’s very clear that’s not happening at any noticeable pace and it’s not because of some back room dealings. The opportunity is there and ready for any developer to take.

[DColeKC]

This is a very dumb approach. These are the people needed to be won over as they are advocates for downtown to the rest of the metro. Get them on the downtown park side, they help promote more yes votes.

What’s dumb is wasting time and energy trying to flip votes that aren’t going to flip. These are not the people needed and they will never advocate for publicly subsidizing mega projects that require some local businesses to move or close.

Yes, the ideal location will mean some local businesses will have to move. Yes, the royals should pay for that move and all costs associated. Yes, some businesses will not want to move, they should be fairly compensated and left to make their own decisions on if they want to open back up in a different spot or not.

Stop being pussies and trying to make everyone happy. There will be 30% or more of the population who will not be happy with any new stadium, so move on and move past them. This concept that everyone gets a say and there shall be no collateral damage is ridiculous. You don’t even need another vote but if they go that route, you’ve only got to flip a handful of votes and those people aren’t worried about anything besides their own personal issues like parking and traffic. Focus on those people because that’s where the victory is, not with class-warfare, local Vs corporate people.

Disclaimer: These are my own opinions, not that of any particular company or involved party.

I'm telling you the people described are not the 30% bucket you are trying to throw them into. They are, in reality, the very voters that would be swayed with a average plan and they would help sway others. Throwing them away is idiotic.

Throwing them away? I’m suggesting you don’t waste time specifically targeting them. If they can be swayed they will be by a properly organized plan and process. You need to change the minds of 12,000 or less people.

[shinatoo]

Watching the game they mentioned the Twins have been pretty great the last 7 years, are in a 10 year old downtown Stadium, with great public transit and are 20th in attendance over that time. (Rough numbers, not going to do research when I'm not procrastinating at work )

Market is twice the size of KC?

How do we explan that? Is something fundamental changing with live sports? Is it ticket pricing?

Always felt like MSP was a great baseball town.

[DColeKC]

Watching the game they mentioned the Twins have been pretty great the last 7 years, are in a 10 year old downtown Stadium, with great public transit and are 20th in attendance over that time. (Rough numbers, not going to do research when I'm not procrastinating at work )

Market is twice the size of KC?

How do we explan that? Is something fundamental changing with live sports? Is it ticket pricing?

Always felt like MSP was a great baseball town.

Great question! I think it’s something to do with the popularity of the game in general. One of several factors I’m sure.

[GRID]

God damn the Crossroads needs this stadium. Or at the very very least it needs the Star Building to be repurposed, but a stadium and many blocks of new development in a city that really sees very little new construction would have really gotten that part of downtown going. There is just way too much un-developed land across the district creating just massive gaps of with no connectivity. New development would also rebuild the crumbling sidewalks, curbs etc as most of the crossroads infrastructure is in rough shape. The city also needs to at the very least keep the pavement markings well maintained. You can barely see most of the bike lanes and other pavement markings. I still say a loss of a few buildings would be worth trade off for several new fully developed blocks and all new infrastructure around those blocks.

On a side note. We went to the Celebration at the station, actually stayed at the Westin but also had a car. I would guess that 40k where there? Not really sure. But I would say it would compare to a typical Royals crowd that might attend a game at a new stadium.

The event did absolutely NOTHING to create any sort of congestion or even really any sort of traffic at all in the entire downtown area including right at Pershing and Main. I mean nothing. The streets before the event as people were arriving were nearly empty. Grand, Main, Baltimore, Broadway, Pershing, 23rd, 18th, Everything. No enough cars to even que up anywhere.

Then after the event when everybody went home at once, some deal. Just a small backup on Main due to tens of thousands of people crossing the street walking back to their cars. People were parking all over, many blocks away, deep into the crossroads and the crown center and even union hill areas. No traffic issues whatso ever. Just having cars parked on the streets made downtown KC feel a little more lived in. Most of the time even the street parking in the crossroads is barely used, but people used a lot of it for this event and it made the streets feel less wide open, even though they still didn't have any traffic or anything.

Downtown KC has so much street capacity and parking capacity spread out all over that stadium traffic down there would do almost nothing as far as traffic is concerned. I really wish people would think about that. I mean don't the same people that go to other events downtown go to Royals games? This idea that a downtown stadium won't work because of "traffic" or "parking" is just so absurd.

Oh and because KC does have so much street capacity, just do it. Take cars off Main or at least make Main accessible only for local traffic. Cars should only be only drive a single block to access garages or whatever. Cars should not be able to use Main as a through street. There is plenty of capacity to free up Main for the streetcars and make it more pedestrian oriented. Even though Main has very low traffic volumes, it would still speed up getting through the signals etc.

Streetcar shots: KC has the best looking streetcars and the best wraps I have seen anywhere. I hope they continue to wrap them with neat local attraction and not just cover them with tacky ads. They look great even with the wraps.

[GRID]

Oh and one more thing about the downtown stadium. After spending the weekend with many relatives in the far east suburbs of Jackson County, I once again do not think there is a chance in hell the "county" passes any sort of tax for a downtown stadium. And honestly, resentment is growing against supporting the Chiefs even at the TSC.

The number one thing I hear is they are tired of paying for stuff for the entire metro to use and for super ultra wealthy owners and not getting anything in return. I mean it's hard to argue with them honestly. The stadiums should be funded regionally and or by the state if they are going to be funded by local tax payers.

[KCPowercat]

Good comparison of how downtown handled celebration at the station crowd and parking. Definitely should use that event as proof that downtown can easily handle a royals crowd, there are for sure more people at that event than a typical game.

We went back via streetcar packed up our stuff immediately after it ended and by the time we walked to the stop we got on almost immediately.crszy how many the streetcar can handle even all at once like when that event ends.