T-Mobile Center (formerly Sprint Center)

[GRID]

If it were only that easy. Kansas City isn’t an anchor market when it comes to touring acts. They route through and if a date they want isn’t available they’ve got other choices and will simply skip the market. Toss in needing to work around a pro team schedule and you’d 100% lose several concert dates.

AEG makes all the money from concerts. They keep all the sponsor money and can sell all the sponsor space. That and many other things change when a tenant comes along.

Yeah, they would lose a few, but gain about 40-50 more. I understand that would not be great for AEG as pro teams take all the revenue from those dates, but it sure would help downtown and Cordish's investment.

AEG has somehow talked everybody in KC into thinking it's better for the city to not have a pro team in the arena. There is no way that is true. That arena is not even a top concert venue anymore like it was in the first years. That is a really nice arena to not have major pro tenant. It's barely being used.

[langosta]

If it were only that easy. Kansas City isn’t an anchor market when it comes to touring acts. They route through and if a date they want isn’t available they’ve got other choices and will simply skip the market. Toss in needing to work around a pro team schedule and you’d 100% lose several concert dates.

AEG makes all the money from concerts. They keep all the sponsor money and can sell all the sponsor space. That and many other things change when a tenant comes along.

Yeah, they would lose a few, but gain about 40-50 more. I understand that would not be great for AEG as pro teams take all the revenue from those dates, but it sure would help downtown and Cordish's investment.

AEG has somehow talked everybody in KC into thinking it's better for the city to not have a pro team in the arena. There is no way that is true. That arena is not even a top concert venue anymore like it was in the first years. That is a really nice arena to not have major pro tenant. It's barely being used.

A team will want all revenues associated with the venue minus management fees.

Doing some googling and before COVID, I'm finding around ~15 concerts annually at peer city arenas with an NBA/NHL team. Add in 41 NBA or NHL home games. KC seems to consistently do 20+ more concerts in a year, add in other sports (NAIA, NCAA, Big 12m, Gymnastics), sprinkle in alternative performances (circ, disney on ice, etc). and you are cruising past an NBA/NHL arena.

T-Mobile Center. has been on a tear this year announcing upcoming events. Averaging a few announcements per week.

https://www.t-mobilecenter.com/news


A concert fan website had this for Enterprise Center in STL:

2024: 25
2023:36
2019:37
2018: 12
2017: 11
2016: 6
2015: 10
2014: 6
2013: 7


Same website records for T-Mobile Center:

2024: 43
2023: 51
2019: 24
2018: 35
2017: 32
2016: 30
2015: 20
2014: 28
2013: 22

[langosta]

EDIT: Found this data base that the fan blog seems to pull from. Scroll through 2024 so far and youll see the only "break" T-Mobile Center has had from hosting concerts was for basketball season.

https://www.concertarchives.org/venues/ ... cert-table

[GRID]

So just using numbers from 2024, you would add 41 (actually typically more including preseason and playoff games).

I'm just not sure how you can argue that downtown is better off without a pro tenant from a "keep downtown busy" perspective.

90% of the concerts and other events will find their way into the schedule if they want to stop in KC. Even with a pro team, there would be plenty of dates available. And concerts are better for weekdays anyway as they will bring a crowd no matter what day they are in town.

As far which is financially better for AEG or the city? That's more debatable.

[langosta]

So just using numbers from 2024, you would add 41 (actually typically more including preseason and playoff games).

Lets round to 70 for a high-performing peer and 60 for a low-performing arena in games + concerts.

KC: 43 concerts, 26 Big 12 games and KC is already about tied with an NBA or NHL city in total events. Add in non-concert events, conventions, etc and KC is probably passing but a minimum hand in hand.

90% of the concerts and other events will find their way into the schedule if they want to stop in KC.

Don't think that is at all true given the stats from peer cities show that at best, 50-60% of the concerts would still come to KC. At worst, 20%.

Looking at the stats, arenas in significantly wealthier and larger cities do host similar number of concerts as T-MOBILE center...but no peer-sized cities make it that high which I think does show that the availability of TMOBILE center drives concerts and events to KC

And concerts are better for weekdays anyway as they will bring a crowd no matter what day they are in town.

As far which is financially better for AEG or the city? That's more debatable.

Sources vary on how much but generally concert goers are traveling farther distances (and more likely to buy hotel room, etc.) We already established total events is at a minimum the same and now you've pointed out that concerts bring in more guests. A winter sport would also have to compete against the Chiefs for the vast majority of their season and the Royals at the tail end. I lean towards thinking the City probably is better off without a team.

[ericwyner]

So just using numbers from 2024, you would add 41 (actually typically more including preseason and playoff games).

Lets round to 70 for a high-performing peer and 60 for a low-performing arena in games + concerts.

KC: 43 concerts, 26 Big 12 games and KC is already about tied with an NBA or NHL city in total events. Add in non-concert events, conventions, etc and KC is probably passing but a minimum hand in hand.

90% of the concerts and other events will find their way into the schedule if they want to stop in KC.

Don't think that is at all true given the stats from peer cities show that at best, 50-60% of the concerts would still come to KC. At worst, 20%.

Looking at the stats, arenas in significantly wealthier and larger cities do host similar number of concerts as T-MOBILE center...but no peer-sized cities make it that high which I think does show that the availability of TMOBILE center drives concerts and events to KC

And concerts are better for weekdays anyway as they will bring a crowd no matter what day they are in town.

As far which is financially better for AEG or the city? That's more debatable.

Sources vary on how much but generally concert goers are traveling farther distances (and more likely to buy hotel room, etc.) We already established total events is at a minimum the same and now you've pointed out that concerts bring in more guests. A winter sport would also have to compete against the Chiefs for the vast majority of their season and the Royals at the tail end. I lean towards thinking the City probably is better off without a team.

and also kU bball (and competitive Mizzou and Kstate bball)

[im2kull]

The city is absolutely alive and teeming downtown because of concerts and out of town sports events. A Home Town sports event would do little for the area. It wouldn't even sell out consistently like every concert does at T-Mobile Center. The spin-off income, hotel nights, everything else is so much greater with concerts than it is with sports anchor. With a sports anchor the majority of the cash is also flowing directly to the anchor, not to the city or to stadium maintenance like it does under the current agreement that promotes concerts and non-professional sporting events.

[dukuboy1]

would there be an option to have a pro sports team in TMobile and look to build a stand alone outstanding class concert venue somewhere within the downtown area? I know we have the performing arts center and it does very well. Any chance to somehow piggyback off of that and create a concert venue would would 18-19K but build it spec to holding concerts? Sort of like a Hollywood Bowl, but not an outdoor venue.

Monster Trucks, wrestling, Disney on Ice, and other events outside of music or comedians book available dates in TMobile while bands, musicians, performers book in this new venue. Create something amazing that really caters to musicians. A venue that artist want to play because of the venue not just the revenue they can make.

[im2kull]

would there be an option to have a pro sports team in TMobile and look to build a stand alone outstanding class concert venue somewhere within the downtown area? I know we have the performing arts center and it does very well. Any chance to somehow piggyback off of that and create a concert venue would would 18-19K but build it spec to holding concerts? Sort of like a Hollywood Bowl, but not an outdoor venue.

Monster Trucks, wrestling, Disney on Ice, and other events outside of music or comedians book available dates in TMobile while bands, musicians, performers book in this new venue. Create something amazing that really caters to musicians. A venue that artist want to play because of the venue not just the revenue they can make.

Sure, there's always an option for anything. But, it costs money.

[DColeKC]

So just using numbers from 2024, you would add 41 (actually typically more including preseason and playoff games).

Lets round to 70 for a high-performing peer and 60 for a low-performing arena in games + concerts.

KC: 43 concerts, 26 Big 12 games and KC is already about tied with an NBA or NHL city in total events. Add in non-concert events, conventions, etc and KC is probably passing but a minimum hand in hand.

90% of the concerts and other events will find their way into the schedule if they want to stop in KC.

Don't think that is at all true given the stats from peer cities show that at best, 50-60% of the concerts would still come to KC. At worst, 20%.

Looking at the stats, arenas in significantly wealthier and larger cities do host similar number of concerts as T-MOBILE center...but no peer-sized cities make it that high which I think does show that the availability of TMOBILE center drives concerts and events to KC

And concerts are better for weekdays anyway as they will bring a crowd no matter what day they are in town.

As far which is financially better for AEG or the city? That's more debatable.

Sources vary on how much but generally concert goers are traveling farther distances (and more likely to buy hotel room, etc.) We already established total events is at a minimum the same and now you've pointed out that concerts bring in more guests. A winter sport would also have to compete against the Chiefs for the vast majority of their season and the Royals at the tail end. I lean towards thinking the City probably is better off without a team.

Nailed it.

The sports fan in me wants a NHL or NBA team but realistically, the Arena is busier now without them. A pro team would help the weekdays a bit but we'd lose dozens of concerts to St Louis or even Columbia.

[langosta]

would there be an option to have a pro sports team in TMobile and look to build a stand alone outstanding class concert venue somewhere within the downtown area? I

Sure, there's always an option for anything. But, it costs money.

A new arena in the US is going to cost over $1 billion. Oklahoma City is building a new NBA arena in the cheaper side for $950 million for example.