Real Estate Listings of Interest (Metrowide)

[FangKC]

Yeah we need more rowhouse in KC but I wouldn't touch those due to the proximity to the highway. Glad they got built though!

The six acres in Columbus Park around 4th and Gillis should be all rowhouses.

We are looking at 3 plots of land near CP Lofts are are likely to be townhomes and live/work spaces. Early days yet, still in discussion. Could be around 60 units.

The six acres has gone back and forth on what the neighborhood wants, what the City wants, what the market will bear, and what the developer can afford to build/sell.

God help us if they end up building single-family houses with yards.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1100517 ... ?entry=ttu

Four townhouses could have be been built on the site of this new house. There is an alley behind that house for garages.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/E+5th ... ?entry=ttu

[Belvidere]

You guys are funny sometimes.

The homes will be very close together, as is typical for CP, and we hope for ADUs as well as homes at more than one price point. We shall see. Still waiting.

I see a lot of "THIS is what Columbus Park" should do and be. It runs the gamut from "it should all be affordable housing" to "it should all be townhomes" to...whatever.

The consistent message is that the neighborhood is always in the wrong somehow. Always.

[Belvidere]

The six acres in Columbus Park around 4th and Gillis should be all rowhouses.

We are looking at 3 plots of land near CP Lofts are are likely to be townhomes and live/work spaces. Early days yet, still in discussion. Could be around 60 units.

The six acres has gone back and forth on what the neighborhood wants, what the City wants, what the market will bear, and what the developer can afford to build/sell.

God help us if they end up building single-family houses with yards.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1100517 ... ?entry=ttu

Four townhouses could have be been built on the site of this new house. There is an alley behind that house for garages.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/E+5th ... ?entry=ttu

This is someone who bought the lot and wanted to build their "dream home." They grew up here, have a large family, and have extended family ties to others in Columbus Park. Not what I would have done, perhaps, but it's better than staring at an empty lot. I think we've had around 8 infill homes (smaller in scale) in the last 5 years or so.

Aesthetically, it cracks me up.

[KCPowercat]

"it should all be townhomes" to...whatever.

The consistent message is that the neighborhood is always in the wrong somehow. Always.

I think the townhome thing is a lot of people on here see the demand and lack of any new supply coming on and CP is just another area that they would seem to fit in well, not that the neighborhood is wrong if it doesn't build them, that doesn't even make sense, unless the neighborhood powers are actively trying to stop them from happening which doesn't seem to be the case given the new ones by the highway.

[Belvidere]

"it should all be townhomes" to...whatever.

The consistent message is that the neighborhood is always in the wrong somehow. Always.

I think the townhome thing is a lot of people on here see the demand and lack of any new supply coming on and CP is just another area that they would seem to fit in well, not that the neighborhood is wrong if it doesn't build them, that doesn't even make sense, unless the neighborhood powers are actively trying to stop them from happening which doesn't seem to be the case given the new ones by the highway.

Agreed. We are looking at around 60 townhomes on 3 plots on the western side (not the 6 acres). That team presented on Wednesday. Nobody dissented.

[KCPowercat]

"it should all be townhomes" to...whatever.

The consistent message is that the neighborhood is always in the wrong somehow. Always.

I think the townhome thing is a lot of people on here see the demand and lack of any new supply coming on and CP is just another area that they would seem to fit in well, not that the neighborhood is wrong if it doesn't build them, that doesn't even make sense, unless the neighborhood powers are actively trying to stop them from happening which doesn't seem to be the case given the new ones by the highway.

Agreed. We are looking at around 60 townhomes on 3 plots on the western side (not the 6 acres). That team presented on Wednesday. Nobody dissented.

Wow nice! that will be well received. Are those plans out somewhere? Seems like big news we need to get out there!

[Belvidere]

I think the townhome thing is a lot of people on here see the demand and lack of any new supply coming on and CP is just another area that they would seem to fit in well, not that the neighborhood is wrong if it doesn't build them, that doesn't even make sense, unless the neighborhood powers are actively trying to stop them from happening which doesn't seem to be the case given the new ones by the highway.

Agreed. We are looking at around 60 townhomes on 3 plots on the western side (not the 6 acres). That team presented on Wednesday. Nobody dissented.

Wow nice! that will be well received. Are those plans out somewhere? Seems like big news we need to get out there!

Let me ask them if they are OK with the site plan being out.

[FangKC]

Belvidere, does anyone ask the developers about building townhouses in a neighborhood association with mandatory common fees versus building old-style zero setback townhouses wall-to-wall that are individually-owned, not in a neighborhood association, and have no commons fees?

I ask because this often presents a problem for people trying to get bank loans because of the 50 percent pre-sold condo financing rule.

I guess rowhouses that don't have common walls can also be in neighborhood associations with common fees.

It often becomes an issue getting these denser housing types built because of the 50 percent rule.

[maison rustique]

Rowhouses and townhouses are charming, but bear in mind when developing that many older people who are looking to downsize, need places with no stairs. Makes the hunt for affordable housing as an elder even more difficult.

[Belvidere]

Belvidere, does anyone ask the developers about building townhouses in a neighborhood association with mandatory common fees versus building old-style zero setback townhouses wall-to-wall that are individually-owned, not in a neighborhood association, and have no commons fees?

I ask because this often presents a problem for people trying to get bank loans because of the 50 percent pre-sold condo financing rule.

I guess rowhouses that don't have common walls can also be in neighborhood associations with common fees.

It often becomes an issue getting these denser housing types built because of the 50 percent rule.

The NA has no fees. It's a non-profit advocacy group, not an HOA. We could vote in a CID eventually, but Columbus Park cannot retroactively do a "gotcha" and establish mandatory HOA fees. We ask for dues or donations right now, enough to pay for a website and dumpsters for cleanup. We're small potatoes.

My understanding is that the townhomes must have an HOA--for themselves--for common areas and common physical structures, like adjoining roofs.

The rowhomes should not fall under laws governing condos and pre-sale.

[Belvidere]

Rowhouses and townhouses are charming, but bear in mind when developing that many older people who are looking to downsize, need places with no stairs. Makes the hunt for affordable housing as an elder even more difficult.

I have asked for "urban flats" for years. Cannot talk anyone into it thus far.

[im2kull]

Rowhouses and townhouses are charming, but bear in mind when developing that many older people who are looking to downsize, need places with no stairs. Makes the hunt for affordable housing as an elder even more difficult.

I have asked for "urban flats" for years. Cannot talk anyone into it thus far.

Would you mind expanding on this concept A bit? I'd love to hear your vision of what this could look like.

[Belvidere]

Rowhouses and townhouses are charming, but bear in mind when developing that many older people who are looking to downsize, need places with no stairs. Makes the hunt for affordable housing as an elder even more difficult.

I have asked for "urban flats" for years. Cannot talk anyone into it thus far.

Would you mind expanding on this concept A bit? I'd love to hear your vision of what this could look like.

It may not be that different than a condo, but..what if you could stack three-four separate living units on top of each other so that the ground floor unit would be the most attractive to someone who is older or with a disability? What about a contemporary collonade, except you buy the unit? No stairs on the lowest levels

Why are co-ops so damn hard? No idea.

They're a lot of people who are long-term renters in the neighborhood who do not want the responsibility/burden of a single family home, but they would kill for an apartment they can buy, in a building that is not too large or impersonal. Garage parking could be shared behind the building and not incorporated into it necessarily. That's more for security than anything since parking garages and parking lots seem to be so attractive. They are leaving our private garages alone.

The ADUs behind the townhomes at 5th and Holmes are efficient one bedrooms over a garage, and those are private ownership. Never seen them empty. It's a great first home or for a person who wants something simple (but there are stairs).

[KC_Ari]

Rowhouses and townhouses are charming, but bear in mind when developing that many older people who are looking to downsize, need places with no stairs. Makes the hunt for affordable housing as an elder even more difficult.

I have asked for "urban flats" for years. Cannot talk anyone into it thus far.

Would you mind expanding on this concept A bit? I'd love to hear your vision of what this could look like.

Different poster, but this is what I envision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungalow_court

[Belvidere]

I have asked for "urban flats" for years. Cannot talk anyone into it thus far.

Would you mind expanding on this concept A bit? I'd love to hear your vision of what this could look like.

Different poster, but this is what I envision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungalow_court

Those are great in the right situation. I think they can be tough to pencil out for small infill jobs.

Security is going to play into it. Where are people parking and how far away are they? Does a lot leave the car insecure and desirable for thieves? How far are to carry groceries? Does the layout make it easy to observe--too easy?

I remember a young Black woman telling me she never felt safe in cul-de-sacs because she was certain somebody would call the cops on her just for walking down the sidewalk. It changed how I looked at urban design and reminded me to talk to lots of different people. Context matters.

[FangKC]

Rowhouses and townhouses are charming, but bear in mind when developing that many older people who are looking to downsize, need places with no stairs. Makes the hunt for affordable housing as an elder even more difficult.

There is also an old-timey solution like this that could be placed randomly on some blocks. This would also allow the upper stories of adjacent buildings to have windows on the shared wall. This duplex could have one door and be one house. They are often converted when renovated.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6058673 ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.608843, ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6088822 ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6095376 ... ?entry=ttu

Or modern versions of these old houses in St. Louis.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6198489 ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6218572 ... ?entry=ttu

[FangKC]

Would you mind expanding on this concept A bit? I'd love to hear your vision of what this could look like.

Different poster, but this is what I envision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungalow_court

Those are great in the right situation. I think they can be tough to pencil out for small infill jobs.

Security is going to play into it. Where are people parking and how far away are they? Does a lot leave the car insecure and desirable for thieves? How far are to carry groceries? Does the layout make it easy to observe--too easy?

I remember a young Black woman telling me she never felt safe in cul-de-sacs because she was certain somebody would call the cops on her just for walking down the sidewalk. It changed how I looked at urban design and reminded me to talk to lots of different people. Context matters.

You can build garages at the end of the bungalow court facing an alley and have the courtyard fenced with locked gates.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

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https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

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https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+ ... ?entry=ttu

[FangKC]

My understanding is that the townhomes must have an HOA--for themselves--for common areas and common physical structures, like adjoining roofs.

The rowhomes should not fall under laws governing condos and pre-sale.

It would seem to me the way to go would be townhomes/row house, that share common walls but the wall extends up above the roof line and essentially each home is a separate structure on its own lot. There would be no common structures per se. There are rows of house like this in big cities all over the country that are not in common HOA, but two walls are up against another. Some blocks even have alleys with garages or old carriage houses.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bost ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bosto ... entry=ttu

[maison rustique]

Fang and KC_Ari, I love those ideas!!

[KC_Ari]

Here is a much more modern version of the Bungalow Court Concept from Texas. Some units are off of a shared courtyard while others abut a parking lot.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2344782 ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2344638 ... ?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2343638 ... ?entry=ttu