Regional Transit Coordination

[langosta]

Lucas does not want to continue subsidizing other communities that choose not to invest in transit. Understandable. I’m not sure pulling kcmo’s funds will do anything to get them to pledge more dollars though.

[GRID]

Lucas does not want to continue subsidizing other communities that choose not to invest in transit. Understandable. I’m not sure pulling kcmo’s funds will do anything to get them to pledge more dollars though.

For the love of god, do transit funding at the county level like a normal community. All the counties need to pass a transit tax.

[langosta]

Lucas does not want to continue subsidizing other communities that choose not to invest in transit. Understandable. I’m not sure pulling kcmo’s funds will do anything to get them to pledge more dollars though.

For the love of god, do transit funding at the county level like a normal community. All the counties need to pass a transit tax.

Manny Abarca Jackson Co. tweeted that he’d propose 3/8th cent for transit and housing. Unfortunately, that really only buys you a few buses and a few affordable units. Probably need .5-1 cent for transit alone to make a meaningful dent.

[beautyfromashes]

Lucas does not want to continue subsidizing other communities that choose not to invest in transit. Understandable. I’m not sure pulling kcmo’s funds will do anything to get them to pledge more dollars though.

For the love of god, do transit funding at the county level like a normal community. All the counties need to pass a transit tax.

Manny Abarca Jackson Co. tweeted that he’d propose 3/8th cent for transit and housing. Unfortunately, that really only buys you a few buses and a few affordable units. Probably need .5-1 cent for transit alone to make a meaningful dent.

There becomes a very real risk that the continued overloaded sales taxes will start to stifle the city economy. We have to find a new way to fund initiatives without carry on with the "Just add a sales tax!".

[Belvidere]

City Council agenda:

SPECIAL COMMITTEE FOR LEGAL REVIEW
Mayor Lucas, Chair

240360 - Sponsor: Councilmember Melissa Patterson-Hazley

RESOLUTION - Directing the City Manager to research how other cities fund and have developed creative, sustainable programs to fund affordable housing creation; and report back to Council in 30 days.

[Belvidere]

What happened to Rep. Cleaver's Sustainable Corridor?

[langosta]

What happened to Rep. Cleaver's Sustainable Corridor?

Still being studied

[langosta]

For the love of god, do transit funding at the county level like a normal community. All the counties need to pass a transit tax.

Manny Abarca Jackson Co. tweeted that he’d propose 3/8th cent for transit and housing. Unfortunately, that really only buys you a few buses and a few affordable units. Probably need .5-1 cent for transit alone to make a meaningful dent.

There becomes a very real risk that the continued overloaded sales taxes will start to stifle the city economy. We have to find a new way to fund initiatives without carry on with the "Just add a sales tax!".

Cough cough density cough cough state support

[beautyfromashes]

There becomes a very real risk that the continued overloaded sales taxes will start to stifle the city economy. We have to find a new way to fund initiatives without carry on with the "Just add a sales tax!".

Cough cough density cough cough state support

We will never get anything from the state. I understand how density is good but how will it fund transportation projects, especially if it costs tax breaks to build it and the people in the buildings are all part of affordable housing initiatives? We either need to find a way to build without initiatives or attract rich people who pay larger tax bills.

[langosta]

There becomes a very real risk that the continued overloaded sales taxes will start to stifle the city economy. We have to find a new way to fund initiatives without carry on with the "Just add a sales tax!".

Cough cough density cough cough state support

We will never get anything from the state. I understand how density is good but how will it fund transportation projects, especially if it costs tax breaks to build it and the people in the buildings are all part of affordable housing initiatives? We either need to find a way to build without initiatives or attract rich people who pay larger tax bills.

How do you not think density will help?

The suburbs are incentivized to the hilt. But urban development spreads those same service annd infra costs across an much greater number of residents. Also, prop tax abatement for a period still leaves you with all the benefits of sales and income tax.

There are other conservative states that support transit. MO helped STL out with Metrolink iirc. There was also legislation introduced this year to allow the gas tax to get used on transit

[beautyfromashes]

The suburbs are incentivized to the hilt. But urban development spreads those same service annd infra costs across an much greater number of residents. Also, prop tax abatement for a period still leaves you with all the benefits of sales and income tax.

I understand the argument for density but do you think just because the costs are cheaper for the city with a more compact environment that they will spend less money?

[langosta]

The suburbs are incentivized to the hilt. But urban development spreads those same service annd infra costs across an much greater number of residents. Also, prop tax abatement for a period still leaves you with all the benefits of sales and income tax.

I understand the argument for density but do you think just because the costs are cheaper for the city with a more compact environment that they will spend less money?

When revenues under the current taxing rate increases, I am certain we will generally raise more total $ of taxes so that we can either improve existing services and infra or have more to spend on new investments (ie transit)

[beautyfromashes]

When revenues under the current taxing rate increases, I am certain we will generally raise more total $ of taxes so that we can either improve existing services and infra or have more to spend on new investments (ie transit)

Ok, I understand your point. I probably wouldn’t agree, but it’s beside the point. Thanks for the clarification.

[herrfrank]

There becomes a very real risk that the continued overloaded sales taxes will start to stifle the city economy. We have to find a new way to fund initiatives without carry on with the "Just add a sales tax!".

Downtown KCMO has something like a 13% sales tax now. And that applies to "take-out food" including the salad bar at Cosentino's among other things.

I have told this story before, but it is worth repeating. The former cheap Chinese place in Lightwell/ City Center Tower had a daily special for $8.99. After the sales tax was applied, the price was more than $10. I saw many people ask for a quarter or walk away mumbling angrily, having brought only a ten-dollar bill.

Sales tax was 3 or 4% in my KC youth. When you compare KC to other metros, it feels excessive already. My current rate in a coastal metro is 7% and it's dropping back to its former rate of 6% next year (a temporary COVID increase is expiring).

[langosta]

And it is like that because we have extreme low density over almost all of the region……I don’t understand your arguement against density helping this issue?

[chingon]

And it is like that because we have extreme low density over almost all of the region……I don’t understand your arguement against density helping this issue?

It is like that because we live in Missouri and most other forms of taxation are severely limited.

[phuqueue]

The density argument seems obvious to me and I'm not clear on what the disagreement is for bfa. Increased density = more people in the same space. A thousand people paying a tax will generate less money than ten thousand people paying the same tax. What am I missing here?

[beautyfromashes]

The density argument seems obvious to me and I'm not clear on what the disagreement is for bfa. Increased density = more people in the same space. A thousand people paying a tax will generate less money than ten thousand people paying the same tax. What am I missing here?

I'm sure there is a tiny efficiency to density, I just don't think it's the huge amount that people seem to think. Take a road mile: is it really better to have 1 mile used 10x as often or 10 miles used in a sleepy area? People would think that building a road is building a road. But, building an urban street mile is SO much more expensive than building that same mile in the suburbs. The same probably goes with utilities, more efficient but not by a huge amount. There is a marked ecological difference, but if we're just talking $, I'm yet to be convinced. And, I just don't think a urban political system that gets a dollar saved through efficiency is going to just put that dollar in their pocket. They're going to do a BLM painting or recognize some people for something, dog parks, feel good stuff. They just don't seem to have the will or ability to do big stuff like cut crime to a reasonable level or keep homeless off the street. They definitely haven't proven they can take that extra dollar and turn it into 10 or attract businesses or individuals who pay more taxes into the pot. They don't see that as their mission at all. Anyway, this is a political rant that probably doesn't need to be in Regional Transit, so we can move on.

[langosta]

The marginal costs is actually not that much more for the most part. In the most complex urban sites your totally right but KC mostly doesn’t have those in the core. The other factor is that low density suburban developments is valued at Pennies on the dollar compared to even a modest urban core property. It’s an exponential different in tax revenues per acre

[DaveKCMO]

Posted now.

240401 (sponsored by Mayor): https://clerk.kcmo.gov/LegislationDetai ... FullText=1

Directing the City Manager to review the City’s relationship with the Mid-America Regional Council (MARC) and to explore the creation of a new and independent Kansas City Metropolitan Planning Organization (KCMO-MPO) for the purpose of overseeing the regional transportation planning and allocation of federal transportation funds within the boundaries of Kansas City.

WHEREAS, Kansas City is a major urban center with unique transportation planning needs that are distinct from the broader bi-state Kansas City metropolitan area; and

WHEREAS, the existing Mid-America Regional Council (MARC) serves a broad geographic area that includes multiple counties in both Missouri and Kansas, which may dilute the focus on Kansas City’s specific transportation issues and opportunities; and

WHEREAS, federal regulations under the United States Department of Transportation mandate the establishment of Metropolitan Planning Organizations (MPOs) for urbanized areas with populations over 50,000 to ensure effective local input in the allocation of federal transportation funds; and

WHEREAS, local support of transportation planning and prioritization of projects within Kansas City is essential to meet the immediate and future needs of the City’s residents and businesses, particularly in our urban core, and to ensure that City priorities-like reconnecting communities and mitigating harmful effects of major thoroughfares like Highway 71-are prioritized and implemented; and

WHEREAS, the addition of a Kansas City-specific Metropolitan Planning Organization (KCMO-MPO) would enhance the ability to undertake comprehensive, cooperative, and continuing transportation planning and implementation tailored to the City’s needs; NOW THEREFORE

BE IT ORDAINED BY THE COUNCIL OF KANSAS CITY:
Section 1. The City Manager is directed to review the City’s relationship with MARC at the beginning of the next fiscal year, FY 2025-26.

Section 2. The City Manager is directed to explore the addition of a new, independent MPO serving and overseen by Kansas City (“KCMO-MPO”). The City Manager is directed to outline the geographical area of a potential KCMO-MPO, design governance and funding structures, and evaluate the process for securing necessary State and Federal approvals.

LOL. This is not even possible and makes it clear the Mayor is just petty and doesn't understand the purpose of MPOs. It will fail, but because it's such a wonky topic he won't suffer the consequences (since he's already alienated the rest of the region there's nothing left for him to salvage with regional cooperation).