Downtown Baseball Stadium

[Highlander]

The Royals draw just fie when they are respectable. Not losing 90+ games. We stay on the pace we have set so far this season you will have near sellouts on the weekends by June. Biggest problem is over the last 30 years we are either in the playoffs or losing 90+ games, with a lot more of the latter.

If you are thinking the Royals would ever not sell out a playoff game, you are out of your mind.

Let's stop with histrionics.

I don’t think anyone on this board has ever alluded to the Royals inability to sell tickets when they’re good. The discussion is more so that a downtown stadium would help bolster attendance significantly more when they’re bad, and help to provided resources enough to ensure the stretches where they’re bad won’t last as long as they have in the past.

Agree

Timely discussion. Just thinking about taking a friend from out of town to a Royals game. We like the K but we do not really enjoy the overall experience of going out to the K particularly after living in cities with downtown baseball before KC (and our friend presently lives in a city with downtown baseball). I know I'd be more up for a Royals game regardless of the team's performance if they were downtown. Absolutely that is true. Going to TSC is kind of a ho-hum experience overall - I'll do it if a visitor really wants to do it and/or if the team has compelling offense/pitching but generally not when the team is down.

[FangKC]

Survey by Jackson County legislator offers glimpse into why voters rejected Question 1

...
Smith believes one of the mistakes the teams made was not listening to the voters. This sentiment was echoed in the survey responses, he said, with many voters expressing relief that someone was finally paying attention to their concerns.

He said the survey results revealed that "fear-based campaigning" did not resonate with many voters. Only 12% of respondents cited fear of the teams leaving as the biggest influencer on their vote.

About 33% of people chose factors such as parking, stadium location, crime, and the conditions of the current stadiums as driving their decision. Smith believes these voters could have been convinced to vote yes if the teams had spent more time addressing these issues.
...

https://www.kmbc.com/article/survey-by- ... 1/60458660

[FangKC]

...
...Smith believes one of the mistakes the teams made was not listening to the voters. This sentiment was echoed in the survey responses, he said, with many voters expressing relief that someone was finally paying attention to their concerns.
...

I guess it never occurred to the Chiefs or Royals to have conducted one of these surveys of fans at games, and Jackson County voters, before making decisions.

[GRID]

The Royals are looking good so far. How do people think that will effect the new stadium?

I already see two stupid excuses. "Sherman is only fielding a competitive team this year to get his toy stadium". Never mind that this is simply the result of a multi-year rebuilding effort. It's not like Sherman flipped a switch.

And the other is. "See, the Royals are fine in this stadium, they are winning so there is no need for a new stadium".

It's like no matter what you can't win over some people. Hopefully most people see it for what it really is.

Another thing I was wondering about concerned parking in downtown KC.

It seems like apps like spothero and parkwhiz are not very active in KC. I think this might have to do with there is so much supply that there is little demand for such aps. And also because there is little demand, a lot of private garages and lots are not even available to the public right now. A sold out event at the arena probably only fills a few nearby garages so there is no need to open, staff and secure more parking garages that would be lightly used.

There have been so many office buildings that have been converted to residential that there has to be a ton of parking that is not being used now. The office buildings required way more parking than the residential units do now. I think Royals needs to prove this to the people of KC. They need to get with some of these parking garage owners and put out the numbers. Even the numbers they did put out just made things worse. Like saying downtown has 40k spaces while the sports complex has 25k. Why say either when the Royals would never need more than 7-9k spaces and they are building 1000 of them. The Royals never mentioned how many parking spots a stadium would actually need.

I just feel like downtown KC could have sold out events at both the arena and stadium and parking and traffic would not be an issue at all. They need to show this.

[TheUrbanRoo]

The Royals are looking good so far. How do people think that will effect the new stadium?

I've started thinking this as well. I think it'll help. Nobody will want to lose the Royals out of KC if they're actually good. And people know that losing a second vote means the team will move.

[beautyfromashes]

The Royals are looking good so far. How do people think that will effect the new stadium?

I've started thinking this as well. I think it'll help. Nobody will want to lose the Royals out of KC if they're actually good. And people know that losing a second vote means the team will move.

The Royals are doing good because they finally did what they should have done all along: spend some money and get starting pitching. It shows how bad the former owner was and how cheap the team really was. They purposefully didn't care about winning.

[KCPowercat]

I feel like we have lost the point of this thread and now it's turned into panic and fearmongering. Which is expected in the absence of any real news or direction for the royals. Hopefully they fill that gap soon and we start hearing of productive movement. This isn't something the city can now just put on the shelf and be down with to Grids point earlier.

[moderne]

Head of the ATA in Star editorial calling for Chiefs to go to retractable roof stadium at Legends and new ballpark at TSC with streetcar connection.

[Chris Stritzel]

It would be wrong to keep the Royals at TSC. Even with a streetcar connection, the suburban minded folks would still control what happens by demanding parking remain, practically eliminating the Royals chances of a mixed-use development next to the stadium. Building on the other side of 70 is not sufficient to the goal of the Royals since everything would be cut off by a highway, stroads and parking. You need to build immediately adjacent. On top of that, the streetcar stop would be on the other side of the parking lot that would remain.

If Frank White III believes that, his father believes the same. White III shouldn’t even be taken seriously considering how RideKC is collapsing under him. Appointed because he’s daddy’s boy and no one oughta cross daddy. Guaranteed he got that position because his dad is the County Executive.

Downtown or bust for the Royals.

[WoodDraw]

I agree. I was at my parents last night and they had the game on. They bought the subscription to watch them since they started well and it was the first time I watched a game in awhile.

We were joking that we only know two players names, which goes to the other thread that they need to fix their television deal.

The stadium was empty though and it made me angry they fucked up this vote so bad. They need to be downtown and I can't believe they got such awful advice that led them to this point.

I hope they listen to better people now.

[KCPowercat]

Head of the ATA in Star editorial calling for Chiefs to go to retractable roof stadium at Legends and new ballpark at TSC with streetcar connection.

It's franks kid

[grovester]

Head of the ATA in Star editorial calling for Chiefs to go to retractable roof stadium at Legends and new ballpark at TSC with streetcar connection.

Ex-head back in 2000, Dick Davis?

[WoodDraw]

I don't really care where the chiefs go because it's just a parking lot. But I don't think Missouri will want to lose two NFL teams.

Baseball needs to be an urban game. And they need to design the stadium to be an urban game. I'm sleepy but I'll post my thoughts on the future soon.

[Highlander]

It would be wrong to keep the Royals at TSC. Even with a streetcar connection, the suburban minded folks would still control what happens by demanding parking remain, practically eliminating the Royals chances of a mixed-use development next to the stadium. Building on the other side of 70 is not sufficient to the goal of the Royals since everything would be cut off by a highway, stroads and parking. You need to build immediately adjacent. On top of that, the streetcar stop would be on the other side of the parking lot that would remain.

If Frank White III believes that, his father believes the same. White III shouldn’t even be taken seriously considering how RideKC is collapsing under him. Appointed because he’s daddy’s boy and no one oughta cross daddy. Guaranteed he got that position because his dad is the County Executive.

Downtown or bust for the Royals.

Absolutely agree. The TSC was a mistake in 1970 (at least the Royal's portion of it) and it's still a mistake today. Centralize frequently used infrastructure to create a critical mass. If the Winner Road industrial district and Leeds plant still existed than a streetcar out to Royals Stadium from downtown might make sense. It makes no sense today. I don't think it's ever cost effective to make venues with sporadic use like a baseball stadium terminals for streetcars or any kind of PT other than buses when there is nothing in between that would justify the service.

[DColeKC]

There’s a lot of things happening and most of it’s conflicting. No idea at this point that the Royals are thinking.

I’m not sure what the comment about them getting “bad advice” is about because they really led the charge on the plan, messaging and were adamant about being in the April ballot. I think they got bad campaign advice for sure. The scare tactics were fine when answering questions about what ifs but the mailers took it a step too far. They could make a better case for why they’ll have to leave.

The Chiefs just aren’t leaving arrowhead. They’re about to dump 250 million into renovations for World Cup only to move out 4 years later? Not happening. They’ve got to flirt with Kansas though to get Missouri on board. I’ve said it before, but the “save the k” group wasn’t shit compared to what a save arrowhead would look like. They’ve already said the stadium is fine and capable of lasting another 50 years. So they’ve burnt that bridge.

[dnweava]

There’s a lot of things happening and most of it’s conflicting. No idea at this point that the Royals are thinking.

I’m not sure what the comment about them getting “bad advice” is about because they really led the charge on the plan, messaging and were adamant about being in the April ballot. I think they got bad campaign advice for sure. The scare tactics were fine when answering questions about what ifs but the mailers took it a step too far. They could make a better case for why they’ll have to leave.

The Chiefs just aren’t leaving arrowhead. They’re about to dump

250 million

into renovations for World Cup only to move out 4 years later? Not happening. They’ve got to flirt with Kansas though to get Missouri on board. I’ve said it before, but the “save the k” group wasn’t shit compared to what a save arrowhead would look like. They’ve already said the stadium is fine and capable of lasting another 50 years. So they’ve burnt that bridge.

The Royals haven't done any thinking at any point yet, nobody really expects them to start now...

And where did this $250 million number come from? All I've ever seen was the state approved $50 million for world cup upgrades.

[WoodDraw]

I agree the chiefs aren't leaving, but they need to figure their shit out.

My bad advice comment is mostly about the election campaign. My thoughts on the switch to ec and the bridge to p&l and the bad roll out are clear so I don't think it helps to continue that discussion.

I think the intervention of the mayor and a few people was not helpful, but they lost the election so they know that now.

The hunts are not known for being great owners. Let's see what happens.

[GRID]

^ They are spending 250 million on Arrowhead for the WC? On what?

I honestly think the Royals moving downtown is dead now. They might try again with KCMO voters, but I doubt a city wide KCMO vote would pass now. The best location is that crossroads site and that will never pass a vote now. A lot of damage was done to the idea of the Royals moving downtown in that last vote.

Without a KCMO or Jackson County funding source, there is just no way. The state alone is not going to build a downtown stadium, especially when they are dealing with the Chiefs at the same time.

I think they end up in NKC and there is even a chance they end up in JoCo (I don't see wyco working). I honestly think a new stadium at the TSC may also come to the table. The Royals may cave and just go that route. Too much of metro KC area people are literally terrified of the idea of a downtown stadium. Combine that with people that now think a stadium would only destroy downtown and the growing amount of people that are against the idea of public money going to stadiums and I don't see a path with a public vote.

[WoodDraw]

You know I love you grid, but I think you don't understand how horrific this vote was locally.

They didn't reach out to anyone good at this.

I'm confident we could pass a tax if the right people are involved. They just sucked.

[iamrealz]

Since most of us will be waiting for a while for some actual news, I'm going to throw out a wild stadium site.

I think you could squeeze a stadium in north of 43rd and Broadway Blvd. Westport would be the entertainment district. It's a couple blocks to the streetcar. Far enough from Plaza NIMBYs (yeah right). Not downtown.

There's no interstate access, but build an E-W streetcar on 43rd, fix the Westport Rd. and SW TFKWY 'intersection', and throw up some parking garages. Baby you got a stew going!

Any other fun fantasy locations?