Downtown Baseball Stadium

[Chris Stritzel]

Details of the Negotiations Between the Royals and Clay County. Up to mid January 2024 when the Royals put it on hold. Some fascinating stuff in here including details of the tax expected up north and where those funds are going


https://showmeinstitute.org/blog/subsid ... ay-county/

That’s all fascinating information. One X user tried using it to dunk on the team, but putting this stuff out there shouldn’t be a means of saying “gotcha!”. It reveals more information about expectations and things than most people assumed. It also reveals the complexity of a deal.

[KCPowercat]

yeah not sure why that's a gotcha by anybody, seems normal negotiations

[DColeKC]

Goes to show how bad the campaign was. Why not say:

We expect this tax to generate 500m.
We will look to the city for 350m.
We will look to the state for 350m.
And we, the royals will put over 500m into the project.

Obviously using clay county info there but same applies to KC. Share info like the fact you’re relocating the crown from Kauffman to the new plaza. Just lots of missed opportunities.

[KCPowercat]

Goes to show how bad the campaign was. Why not say:

We expect this tax to generate 500m.
We will look to the city for 350m.
We will look to the state for 350m.
And we, the royals will put over 500m into the project.

Obviously using clay county info there but same applies to KC. Share info like the fact you’re relocating the crown from Kauffman to the new plaza. Just lots of missed opportunities.

They took every possible opportunity and missed it. Going to take it's someone close to this whole thing soon I'll ask if they privately realized this

[DColeKC]

Goes to show how bad the campaign was. Why not say:

We expect this tax to generate 500m.
We will look to the city for 350m.
We will look to the state for 350m.
And we, the royals will put over 500m into the project.

Obviously using clay county info there but same applies to KC. Share info like the fact you’re relocating the crown from Kauffman to the new plaza. Just lots of missed opportunities.

They took every possible opportunity and missed it. Going to take it's someone close to this whole thing soon I'll ask if they privately realized this

They have.

[Metro]

Loved Week In Reviews segment on this last night. I forgot how bad Sly was at the end of his mayorship. Looking back on that guy really road the coattails of Barnes accomplishments. They will need to go outside of KC with their next PR venture.

[mourban]

Sly was a breath of fresh air after Funkhouser though. I’d argue Sly helped KC feel like it was on the upswing again. Funkhouser was abysmal

[DColeKC]

Sly was a breath of fresh air after Funkhouser though. I’d argue Sly helped KC feel like it was on the upswing again. Funkhouser was abysmal

Sly was a good Mayor and I'm not a fan of Democrats. He wasn't a great fit for this campaign.

Funkhousers name should be stricken from the record!

[langosta]

Loved Week In Reviews segment on this last night. I forgot how bad Sly was at the end of his mayorship. Looking back on that guy really road the coattails of Barnes accomplishments. They will need to go outside of KC with their next PR venture.

I feel like he focused in on projects that he knew he could execute and were still important to the city. KCI and GO bond specifically. He had tried streetcar before and wanted to take back control of KCPD but knew that he was running out of time.

[beautyfromashes]

Goes to show how bad the campaign was. Why not say:

We expect this tax to generate 500m.
We will look to the city for 350m.
We will look to the state for 350m.
And we, the royals will put over 500m into the project.

Obviously using clay county info there but same applies to KC. Share info like the fact you’re relocating the crown from Kauffman to the new plaza. Just lots of missed opportunities.

See, how hard was that?! Why were they so secretive about the details on the plan? And, obviously, it affected the campaign. Lucas didn't get involved until the last week. Crossroads Association didn't approve until the last day! They had no advocacy because who wants to put their name behind a campaign with so few detais and potential traps? Piss poor.

[GRID]

Goes to show how bad the campaign was. Why not say:

We expect this tax to generate 500m.
We will look to the city for 350m.
We will look to the state for 350m.
And we, the royals will put over 500m into the project.

Obviously using clay county info there but same applies to KC. Share info like the fact you’re relocating the crown from Kauffman to the new plaza. Just lots of missed opportunities.

Because the Royals had not convinced hardly anybody that they even needed a new stadium. Most people thought the sales tax alone was going to cover it. When it became more known that the Royals would also be asking for tax money from the city and state in addition to the sale tax, it turned even more people off. I think I did more PR for the Royals explaining why they needed a new stadium than the Royals did. Wait, I don't think I did, I know I did. So did some other members of this forum.

Step one.

Figure out a way to show tax payers "why" a new stadium is needed. We all know the reasons. 90% of the public does not.

[moderne]

Also could have educated voters about how MLB disadvantages smaller metro markets and how DT stadium could help team's bottom line.

[GRID]

Also could have educated voters about how MLB disadvantages smaller metro markets and how DT stadium could help team's bottom line.

That's part of the process. MLB teams do not move very often, but KC is a VERY small market to have a MLB team. The only market smaller than KC is Milwaukee and they draw on average more than what KC did in 2015.

Even places like Tampa and Oakland and Miami have much larger markets where they can absorb the low ticket sales. KC is a very small market, has very small corporate season ticket base and has a dated stadium that generates very little revenue for the team on top of needing more maintenance than more modern stadiums just to keep it going.

There is a real threat that KC could lose the Royals if the city and state don't step up. And I don't think Kansas is a backup option for the Royals for several reasons. A lot of people think they can just move to KS. That's not going to happen. Suburban KC is not suburban Atlanta regardless of how much JoCo people think otherwise.

Sherman won't be around forever or may just throw in the towel and sell the team (he would never move it himself). KC people on social media are acting like they can tell the Royals to go pound sand and they will just build the stadium with private money. That it NOT going to happen. It does not even happen in 95% of larger markets it's for sure not going to happen in KC.

The Chiefs are a different story. They are not going to leave and KS sees the value of possibly having a super stadium there for other events if KCMO/MO drops the ball. I think they have a 1% chance of moving within the next 10-15 years while the Royals have closer to 20%. NFL works better in smaller markets, but the Chiefs would still be worth a billion more dollars in a larger market. Luckily there are not too many huge markets without an NFL team.

Also, I think the idea that subsidizing pro sports stadiums is a net loss does not apply to a city like KC. The Chiefs and Royals are both VERY important to the economy of KC. The teams are practically the only reason anybody outside of 300 miles of KC knows about the city or would like to visit it. The teams and the players bring a lot of exposure and money to the metro. The stadiums (and their teams) bring events to the metro that otherwise would not go there.

KC needs to be careful here.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Forget the voters. The Royals and local governments have to find a way to pull off a downtown stadium without a vote of the people. The Chiefs on the other hand can go to the voters without the tag along Royals and likely get approval for Arrowhead improvements.

[DColeKC]

So was THIS the "new location" for stadium that DCole was referring to???

EXCLUSIVE: East Crossroads site pitched as a prospect for downtown Royals stadium
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -star.html

Ding Ding!

It’s crazy we’ve been talking about this for so long. Just looking back over some past receipts.

Original post from: 8/11/22

[DColeKC]

Forget the voters. The Royals and local governments have to find a way to pull off a downtown stadium without a vote of the people. The Chiefs on the other hand can go to the voters without the tag along Royals and likely get approval for Arrowhead improvements.

I was trying to find my comment from a few years back when I had inside info and shared that the mayor said this can get done without the county. I’ve given up the search but that conversation was clear. He also made it seem like there was a way that didn’t require a vote but I didn’t get specifics.

[mean]

I suspect Sherman doesn't want to move the Royals out of the metro but knows he can't deliver a quality product without boosting revenue or paying out of his pocket for players (which isn't sustainable).

Aside from anything else, this is the crux of the issue for me. It's not sustainable to pay players to win games without losing money!? Oh you poor soul, that is terrible for you, but my neighbors could really use some groceries, or rent money, or transportation, or whatever.

Forget the voters. The Royals and local governments have to find a way to pull off a downtown stadium without a vote of the people.

Ah yes, we can call it Three Gorges Stadium.

[mean]

I just had to rinse my mouth out because I think I sarcastically agreed with akp.

[Chris Stritzel]

I took some time and read through the email communications between Brooks Sherman, Mayor DeLong, Clay County officials, North KC Police Chief, and others. I also reviewed the presentations submitted by the Royals as well. It's clear to me that they were having positive discussions and moving in a direction that would've gotten the team what they wanted.

I'm curious to see the communication with Jackson County and compare it to Clay because the way it appears to me, Clay was willing to play. There seemed to be widespread agreement, in the messages, that officials were supportive of this proposal. Even the police chiefs of Liberty, Gladstone, Riverside, and Smithville PLUS the Heads of the Clay and Platte County Sheriff's departments signed onto the letter of support from North KC police chief Kevin Freeman.

The back and forth on details, such as sales tax rate, year terms, etc, were getting close to a finalized rate of a half cent for 30 years (although one document said 7/8 sales tax for 40 years, that's what negotiations are for).

It makes sense how the public money aspect would be spent on this.
- $490 Million from the half cent sales tax.
- $350 Million bond from the City of NKC.
- $350 Million from State of Missouri.
- $617 Million from the team.

Additional details on the stadium district were also provided in these documents.
- 2850 residential units.
- 648,000sf of office space.
- 276,000sf retail/restaurant space
- 250 hotel rooms

The breakdown of the stadium and infrastructure costs was interesting as well.
- Stadium would cost $1,322,200,000
- Infrastructure work would cost $484,800,000
TOTAL: $1,806,800,000

Toss in the mixed-use development (built over 10-20 years)...
- $1,430,000,000
TOTAL PRIVATE INVESTMENT (by team and partners, likely Merrimans since they own the land and were named): $2,047,000,000

Tax revenues generated at stabilization (2041) for the entirely of the Ballpark and Ballpark District are also fascinating.
- Yearly sales tax: $27.4 Million ($7.3 Million to NKC, $4.2 Million to Clay County, $15.9 Million to the State).
- Yearly property tax: $19.5 Million ($2.3 Million to NKC, $390,000 to Clay County, $85,000 to the State, and $16.3 Million to the school district).
- Yearly tourism tax: $415,000 (all to NKC).
- Yearly income tax: $7 Million (all to the State).

I'm not sure why these communications were released unless it was determined by the team that the negotiations had concluded. Brooks Sherman specified that these discussions were simply placed on hold in his mid-January email. So, either the team concluded afterwards that the talks were over and therefore the details were able to be released as part of a sunshine request, or someone in Clay County government decided to release the details as an act of either retribution or to force the Royals's hand at coming back to Clay County.

Based on what I saw in those documents, and you can view as well, it shows Clay County swimming well above their weight in their bid to land the Royals. If you're team ownership, you might be exploring something with just KCMO, but Clay County is still on your mind. And they're likely willing to work with you more.

KCMO will likely give it an honest shot, but Clay County is in the shadows waiting for their chance to perfect the deal and run with it.

[im2kull]

The reality is that KC Tenants will/would have come out against every possible proposal the Royals put on the table. The details are irrelevant, whether East Village, East Crossroads, saving the K, whatever. The issue is tax money going to a team owned by a billionaire, that doesn't change no matter where the stadium is built. Do they put up less of a stink if the stadium is built in Clay County or Kansas? Maybe. But, if the Royals go to the suburbs because they're scared of KC Tenants, that's just flat out embarrassing.

Thankfully, I doubt John Sherman even knows who they are and people on this board are insanely overstating their contribution to this election. The teams royally screwed this up. Best you can give credit to KC Tenants is that the teams made decisions that specifically fed into their narrative (throwing out small businesses, tearing down buildings, Arrowhead renovations only for VIPs). A better plan that doesn't feed that narrative takes away their oxygen. Mainstream voters don't listen to KC Tenants.

Casey tenants literally has multiple board members on the city council and within various decision-making boards for the city and taxing authorities, while raking in millions of dollars in donations each year...

... And you still think they're some Peewee team