Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:14 pm Y'all best simmer down with the doomerism. Fuck me. Give it a little bit. You take a setback like this and act like it's the end of the world. And then some wonder why folks on the other side of the argument can't take the pro-downtown stadium folks seriously. I swear, negativity feeds off of negativity and that's on display here.

Royals have a pathway in the Crossroads:
- They reached that agreement with the neighborhood association and both parties signed it. Even though it would've gone into effect after a "yes" vote tonight, it's still a good thing to keep in hand and sign again later. It has a bunch of things in it folks wanted.
- They listened and agreed to keep Oak open. That was a major concern by many.
- They got an agreement with Resurrection Church to purchase the land owned by the Church and they can still buy the Printing Press. That leaves the other buildings fronting Grand.

All three were done too late to change the minds of voters.
I'd agree with this. Here is what has to happen if they do want this site:

Work on purchase contracts with the existing building owners that push them to start moving those businesses to as good or better locations when their leases are up. Remove the ability to say "We're killing small businesses."
Purchase and tear down the KC Star press building.
Donate money and generate enough other donors to build the 670 park.
Become seen in the Crossroads. Be part of First Fridays. Mend fences.
Develop an actual stadium plan instead of a placeholder.
Get financial visibility on where the money for the development will come from.
Get a nationally respected stadium and ancillary development company to run the program.
Become committed. Say more emphatically that there is no extension of the K lease.
Work on producing a better team on the field.
Last edited by beautyfromashes on Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GRID
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

Sorry, but this is bad. This is not coming back to a county vote. No way.

At the very best case, the state will have to put in a bunch of money to try and do a hail mary, but it will be for a much more watered down project. This grand project south of the Sprint Center is dead.

My guess it KC is going to be the next Oakland for several more years. KC is going to be THE team everybody will talk about moving. I don't think it will be possible for KCMO to hang on to both teams now. I just don't.

You might get a chance to vote on Arrowhead again, but the Royals are in serios limbo. And sadly it really seems like most of KC doesn't care about the Royals.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by mourban »

“Become committed. Say more emphatically that there is no extension of the K lease”

They need to do this. The Royals should just say they’re moving out of TSC and are exploring options. Don’t f this up so badly next time
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

How do we think a Sporting Kansas City vote would go? Would gaining a team as opposed to just keeping one you already have be a bigger vote getter?
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

I hope this will make the Royals & Chiefs comeback to the drawing board with better thought out & details plans that show a commitment to transformational development.

However I’m more concerned that there is an undercurrent of uninformed & misguided groups whose anti development rhetoric will hold back the city as we try to move forward and really try to keep the momentum going from all the hits we have had in progressing forward the past 20 years. This vote could cause a lot of visionary people from hitting the pause button on development plans because of a general feeling of KC being anti development & lacking vision. Time will tell I guess
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

I'm not a gambler, but I suspect the county gets kicked to curb regarding the Royals. Sherman and the Royals will work with the city alone to fund this fully with 250 million or so from the state at most. Site will still be Crossroads.

Chiefs get to break up with the Royals finally. Kansas has already tossed crazy deals at the Chiefs but they'll stay at TSC. There's zero chance Missouri ends up not having a NFL team.

Regardless, this won't be back on the fall ballot. It can't be tried again for a full year. The city funded Royals stadium could make the fall ballot.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Metro »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:31 pm I'm not a gambler, but I suspect the county gets kicked to curb regarding the Royals. Sherman and the Royals will work with the city alone to fund this fully with 250 million or so from the state at most. Site will still be Crossroads.

Chiefs get to break up with the Royals finally. Kansas has already tossed crazy deals at the Chiefs but they'll stay at TSC. There's zero chance Missouri ends up not having a NFL team.

Regardless, this won't be back on the fall ballot. It can't be tried again for a full year. The city funded Royals stadium could make the fall ballot.
How much would it cost the city?
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by ericwyner »

Don't hire Jeff Roe if it's on the ballot again
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by ericwyner »

mourban wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:18 pm I bet a lot of eastern Jackson County voters like the status quo location. I’ll be interested to see what it looks like if KCMO cuts them out of the process next time and goes it alone.
Don't a lot Plate and Clay County voters also?
Last edited by ericwyner on Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris Stritzel
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Chris Stritzel »

Chris Stritzel wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:43 pm Let me just provide a word of caution about this whole situation: St. Louis Soccer Fans were positive that the sales tax vote to fund the original MLS2STL stadium plan in Downtown West would pass in April 2017. It was defeated 53-47. However, that was not an existing sales tax and was a measure that would've redirected the new 1/2-cent sales tax money ($50 Million) that would've been created for the North-South MetroLink (which was approved with 60% of the vote on the same night).
...
Most voters will continue to remain "on the fence" about voting to renew the sales tax without specific information being publicly available. I believe fully that the Chiefs and Royals know this and are going to work faster towards getting their plans out there so that the public has more time to review, ask questions, and make an informed decision.
https://www.stlpr.org/government-politi ... um-funding
I was right in a way about the first part. We were overly confident about a victory here. I’m still confident about the future of downtown baseball. The doomerism on this thread tonight is exhausting. I’m going away for a little bit while tensions cool.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

Metro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:32 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:31 pm I'm not a gambler, but I suspect the county gets kicked to curb regarding the Royals. Sherman and the Royals will work with the city alone to fund this fully with 250 million or so from the state at most. Site will still be Crossroads.

Chiefs get to break up with the Royals finally. Kansas has already tossed crazy deals at the Chiefs but they'll stay at TSC. There's zero chance Missouri ends up not having a NFL team.

Regardless, this won't be back on the fall ballot. It can't be tried again for a full year. The city funded Royals stadium could make the fall ballot.
How much would it cost the city?
500 million.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Highlander »

GRID wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:24 pm You might get a chance to vote on Arrowhead again, but the Royals are in serios limbo. And sadly it really seems like most of KC doesn't care about the Royals.
Oh they care. They were just naïve enough to think they held all the cards. Unlike Beauty from Ashes, I don't think the Crossroads lost the vote for the Royals. There were just too many forces outside the city for Kansas City to overcome (and KC had its share of detractors too). Independence, Raytown, Lees Summit and just about every Mo suburb most likely had no votes well in excess of the final percentage. The folks on Save Kaufman Stadium honestly believed they were forcing Sherman's hand to remain at Royals Stadium and were determined to do just that.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:56 pm
Metro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:32 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:31 pm I'm not a gambler, but I suspect the county gets kicked to curb regarding the Royals. Sherman and the Royals will work with the city alone to fund this fully with 250 million or so from the state at most. Site will still be Crossroads.

Chiefs get to break up with the Royals finally. Kansas has already tossed crazy deals at the Chiefs but they'll stay at TSC. There's zero chance Missouri ends up not having a NFL team.

Regardless, this won't be back on the fall ballot. It can't be tried again for a full year. The city funded Royals stadium could make the fall ballot.
How much would it cost the city?
500 million.
I don't see how this happens. Frank White and the county are just going to let them out of their current lease? Kansas City residents are going to pay MORE for the same stadium than they would on a plan they just voted down but was cheaper?!
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

Highlander wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:58 pm Oh they care. They were just naïve enough to think they held all the cards. Unlike Beauty from Ashes, I don't think the Crossroads lost the vote for the Royals.
The Crossroads lost them their base, the people that they needed to go out and sell this plan, talk about how great downtown baseball would be. That I and others on this board weren't sold immediately and emphatically lost them momentum and major advocates.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCDowntown »

Ultimately, I think the East Crossroads plan was the best available site for the city, which really sucks because I doubt we will get a chance to do this site again. Keeping Oak open and allowing business east of Oak to stay could have been a real winner for integrating this project with the area.

I'm really upset by this vote, and writing about it will be my therapy session.

So who is to blame...

1. The Royals: Arbitrary deadlines not met (i.e. we will pick a site in September 2023, and that turned into February 2024), whole process felt rushed so voters didn't know what they were voting for. People want their questions answered about parking, what the stadium would really look like. I hope they have enough self-awareness to know that they were part of the problem with this campaign. They invalidated their renderings a week before the campaign, just terrible all-around.

2. The Chiefs: I don't think their plans for Arrowhead could have been less exciting, and they allowed this vote to become a referendum on the Royals plans and not their plans as well. Something tells me they no longer want to be conjoined with the Royals.

3. Frank White: He made outlandish demands (i.e. we want $25 million a year in the CBA and a new Jackson County office building), and was ultimately never willing to sit down with the teams. He intentionally missed meetings with the clubs and was completely obstructionist until there was enough political pressure to override his BS. He's burned every ounce of goodwill I ever had for him, and I had a lot.

4. Inflation and class warfare: The KCTenants message resonates with a lot of people, and our city continues to pay a hefty price. But they are able to frame the same tax that we've been paying as 'billionaires' stealing from us for their toys. Everyone is feeling inflation and that certainly doesn't help.

5. 'Save the Crossroads': You would have thought John Sherman was plowing over everything from the P&L to the Crown Center instead of filling up 6 mostly moribund blocks. Again, part of this is on the Royals shoddy campaign. Anyone want to guess what these six blocks will look like in 10 years?

6. Newspaper and social media coverage: Negative to positive articles about the plan were probably 10-1. Again PR.

There is no rational way to say the teams did a good job promoting their plans. I wanted this to pass just as much as I wanted the starter streetcar line to pass. I would have been transformational for our city, but quite frankly their effort didn't deserve to pass.

The Chiefs and Royals play a huge role in this city's identity and our civic pride and quite frankly my own identity. I'm trying not to get worked up about this because if the teams make an honest assessment of this they are the ultimate culprit for its failure. However, this was a real opportunity for our city, our downtown, and growing transit system, and that has gone by the wayside. But the people have spoken and it is what is it, hopefully they learn from it.

Maybe its just a tiny little crack right now, but there's a chance that tonight's results to lead to something truly catastrophic for our city and region.

KCDowntown

PS, Everytime I hear the word 'Sp*rtsball' I want to get in my car and drive into a river. Can we please retire this awful word from the lexicon forever?
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by mourban »

beautyfromashes wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:27 pm How do we think a Sporting Kansas City vote would go? Would gaining a team as opposed to just keeping one you already have be a bigger vote getter?
The Sporting Stadium is relatively new and KCMO f’d up the prior attempt at luring them to the Bannister Mall site (which would have been almost as bad a location as TSC). I feel like that issue won’t be ripe for another 10-20 years.
Maybe they expand the Current site in a few decades.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by mourban »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:31 pm I'm not a gambler, but I suspect the county gets kicked to curb regarding the Royals. Sherman and the Royals will work with the city alone to fund this fully with 250 million or so from the state at most. Site will still be Crossroads.

Chiefs get to break up with the Royals finally. Kansas has already tossed crazy deals at the Chiefs but they'll stay at TSC. There's zero chance Missouri ends up not having a NFL team.

Regardless, this won't be back on the fall ballot. It can't be tried again for a full year. The city funded Royals stadium could make the fall ballot.
Interesting point. Maybe KS gets the Chiefs and then Missouri somehow overcomes it’s neglect for STL and supports a NFL team going back there. Missouri neglects KC too of course… but the hate for the cities may be revisited if there are zero NFL teams in the state.
Last edited by mourban on Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by mourban »

Highlander wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:58 pm
GRID wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:24 pm You might get a chance to vote on Arrowhead again, but the Royals are in serios limbo. And sadly it really seems like most of KC doesn't care about the Royals.
Oh they care. They were just naïve enough to think they held all the cards. Unlike Beauty from Ashes, I don't think the Crossroads lost the vote for the Royals. There were just too many forces outside the city for Kansas City to overcome (and KC had its share of detractors too). Independence, Raytown, Lees Summit and just about every Mo suburb most likely had no votes well in excess of the final percentage. The folks on Save Kaufman Stadium honestly believed they were forcing Sherman's hand to remain at Royals Stadium and were determined to do just that.
I actually am excited to see the vote results by area. I bet Eastern Jack shot this down big time. They probably will lose both teams eventually but this bought them some time.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Rusty Irish »

Frank White looking all smug on X posing for photos as if he's just won the lottery. The city just lost a much needed shot of vibrancy and economic development and you are gloating about it? Tragic man.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

beautyfromashes wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:00 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:56 pm
Metro wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:32 pm

How much would it cost the city?
500 million.
I don't see how this happens. Frank White and the county are just going to let them out of their current lease? Kansas City residents are going to pay MORE for the same stadium than they would on a plan they just voted down but was cheaper?!
Parking taxes, ticket tax and other funding mechanisms can be used over a sales tax. Remove the people who think downtown is another country. I'm not worried about the lease, that can be negotiated. I'd sue Frank White if I were the Royals anyway.
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