Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

Not if the product doesn't happen. The majority of the opposition isn't trying to make this project work; they want to kill it for ideological reasons (with disparate ideologies represented in the opposition) or a belief that Kaufman should remain the Royal's home or a complete rejection of any stadium in the greater crossroads area. Very few are holding out for improvements.

That's an overgeneralization of the viewpoints being stated honestly. yes a couple loud people are overall trying to kill it but that's not the majority

It may be an overgeneralization of people on this forum but I wasn't referring to that population. I don't think it's an overgeneralization of Kansas City voters. The organized opposition is a coalition of the groups I described and very few of them are trying to make the project a better project (the exceptions are a few people downtown and in the crossroads that have come out against the project but have kept an open mind). KC Tenants, Save Kaufman Stadium and the Show-Me Institute all oppose the project in any form at all.

Very few 'opposed' are in those two groups. Almost nobody is in the 3rd, they are just against anything anywhere.

[shinatoo]

PnL was a lot easier because it had been in the works since the 80's by Stan Durwood. A lot of the properties were being land banked, and no new development had happened in anticipation of Durwood's development going in. Unlike what's happening in East Village, sorry East Crossroads.

[TheLastGentleman]

If a project can be killed by design critiques then it’s not a good project

[DColeKC]

If a project can be killed by design critiques then it’s not a good project

If killed, it will be due to misinformation winning again. I just watched a 10 minute video a crossroads resident made about her nightmare life trying to park downtown. 9 minutes plus were full of lies and it was clearly tilted to make it sound like downtown is already a traffic and parking nightmare.

That's what will kill this. People falsely pushing the idea that downtown is already hard to park in or get around in.

[KCPowercat]

ain't nobody voting based on some rando youtube video much less watching 10 minutes of it.

[DColeKC]

ain't nobody voting based on some rando youtube video much less watching 10 minutes of it.

Well it was posted 2 days ago and shared by some popular crossroads businesses. It has over 700 views, I wouldn't say "nobody" will be influenced by it. I mean she says someone was shot 5 feet from her apartment as well.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Im too young to remember the whole Sprint Center/PNL process. Was it as bad as this one?

If memory serves me well the Sprint Center was mainly objectionable because people still say Kemper as a decent venue with debt still outstanding on it. Also it was built on the speculation that a NBA or NHL team would move in rather quickly. There was some objection to how it was financed.
With regards to P&L it was sold to the citizens with some rather lofty numbers for rents and sales. Both revenues would support the bond payments, guaranteed by city funds, that had to be made. Of course the city has subsidized the bonds to a tune of $10M a year.

Those lofty numbers are like the economic benefit numbers released by the Royals with regards to the stadium's economic benefit for downtown.

Not sure how the vote will turn out next week. Have quite a few friends who live in Jackson County and none are for the Royals leaving TSC. Now whether or not they vote is a different topic. Not sure if either side wants a large turnout or a small turnout. My thinking is the teams are looking for a low turnout given the push for an April vote.

[DColeKC]

Im too young to remember the whole Sprint Center/PNL process. Was it as bad as this one?

If memory serves me well the Sprint Center was mainly objectionable because people still say Kemper as a decent venue with debt still outstanding on it. Also it was built on the speculation that a NBA or NHL team would move in rather quickly. There was some objection to how it was financed.
With regards to P&L it was sold to the citizens with some rather lofty numbers for rents and sales. Both revenues would support the bond payments, guaranteed by city funds, that had to be made. Of course the city has subsidized the bonds to a tune of $10M a year.

Those lofty numbers are like the economic benefit numbers released by the Royals with regards to the stadium's economic benefit for downtown.

Not sure how the vote will turn out next week. Have quite a few friends who live in Jackson County and none are for the Royals leaving TSC. Now whether or not they vote is a different topic. Not sure if either side wants a large turnout or a small turnout. My thinking is the teams are looking for a low turnout given the push for an April vote.

Nothing inaccurate with what you said but wanted to add some context.

The fact T-Mobile hasn't landed a pro team is much of the reason the city is so behind this EC location. Would be great if any new city investments helped lessen the burden of past city investments.

The city learned a valuable lesson about over projecting and has since made several changes to this process. PNL was a learning situation for them as they hired the consulting firm who generated the figures. Our friends in the crossroads who are the loudest opposed to this new stadium like to make it sound like Cordish put together the projections and falsified information. I'm confident the city will be much more conservative when it comes time to commit their portion of the funding.

[beautyfromashes]

It seems like this election is like most every one that I’ve seen recently: I really hate both sides. I’m a DTer but the No people are trying to paint downtown as a jumbled mess that no one would want to go to. The Yes people are pushing fear tactics about “leaving Kansas City”, closing roads and massive subsidies while seeming to care nothing about those affected. I hate you all.

[KCPowercat]

Im too young to remember the whole Sprint Center/PNL process. Was it as bad as this one?

With regards to P&L it was sold to the citizens with some rather lofty numbers for rents and sales. Both revenues would support the bond payments, guaranteed by city funds, that had to be made. Of course the city has subsidized the bonds to a tune of $10M a year.

the finance people at the city were forthright that the numbers were a stretch goal at best. It was also explained this was replacing old infrastructure and adding city owned garages.

[beautyfromashes]

The city projected PnL would be fully leased at launch. This really didn’t happen for a long time, if at all. They also knew that there likely would be the Sprint Center. People forget that that wasn’t until later. So, they got Cordish propped up, gave them extra bait with SC and it still didn’t happen. They believed in Cordish too much and they couldn’t deliver. If Cordish can’t be weened off the teet with a MLB stadium, the’re hopeless.

[DColeKC]

The city projected PnL would be fully leased at launch. This really didn’t happen for a long time, if at all. They also knew that there likely would be the Sprint Center. People forget that that wasn’t until later. So, they got Cordish propped up, gave them extra bait with SC and it still didn’t happen. They believed in Cordish too much and they couldn’t deliver. If Cordish can’t be weened off the teet with a MLB stadium, the’re hopeless.

lol - "Believed in Cordish too much". Once again, Cordish had nothing to do with the cities projections. They provided the city with the amount of square footage to be built, a rough timeline on how long it would take to build out certain components of this and what type of market rate leases they could acquire. The city took this info and did what it did to finance its portion of the project while Cordish invested over 100 million of its own money into the project. Hundreds of millions more since the opening.

Cordish has been in the commercial landlord business for over 100 years. I still find it hard to believe they share any blame in the over projection of revenues. Then again, I also think 10 million a year from the general fund is 100% worth the result.

Edit: Also, a little talked about fun fact. The plan submitted by the developer had it taking several years to reach various retail commercial occupancy rates. At no time did they imply they'd be even close to 100% occupied at opening.

[beautyfromashes]

Edit: Also, a little talked about fun fact. The plan submitted by the developer had it taking several years to reach various retail commercial occupancy rates. At no time did they imply they'd be even close to 100% occupied at opening.

Did the developer include having the Sprint Center on its doorstep in its projections? What year did they anticipate full lease?

[DColeKC]

Edit: Also, a little talked about fun fact. The plan submitted by the developer had it taking several years to reach various retail commercial occupancy rates. At no time did they imply they'd be even close to 100% occupied at opening.

Did the developer include having the Sprint Center on its doorstep in its projections? What year did they anticipate full lease?

Well of course they included the sprint center. Their commitment to build PNL was the intricate part of the city building the arena. It all went together.

I’m not sure they ever anticipated fully leased as most developers would never rely on always being at full capacity.

[KCPowercat]

As much fun as it might feel, re-litigating this now isn't going to do anything. the city knew they were going to dip into the general fund. Did they know at this level for this long? I doubt it but probably should have anticipated it.

[DColeKC]

As much fun as it might feel, re-litigating this now isn't going to do anything. the city knew they were going to dip into the general fund. Did they know at this level for this long? I doubt it but probably should have anticipated it.

No doubt.

Back to the stadium?

[beautyfromashes]

As much fun as it might feel, re-litigating this now isn't going to do anything. the city knew they were going to dip into the general fund. Did they know at this level for this long? I doubt it but probably should have anticipated it.

Always good to reflect on who you’re getting into bed with.

[KCPowercat]

Well we aren't making a deal with cordish right?

[beautyfromashes]

Well we aren't making a deal with cordish right?

We absolutely are.

[DColeKC]

As much fun as it might feel, re-litigating this now isn't going to do anything. the city knew they were going to dip into the general fund. Did they know at this level for this long? I doubt it but probably should have anticipated it.

Always good to reflect on who you’re getting into bed with.

I think if anyone who's paid attention and can fairly judge the results could go back in time, they'd jump in that bed with a smile on their face. Hard to argue it hasn't worked out well for this city and taxpayers overall.

There's a reason several other, often larger cities continue to "get in bed" with Cordish to do these types of developments. You don't think those other municipalities, developers, investors and team owners know about PNL and the projections? They do research for months.

Cordish isn't involved in the stadium at this point. This deal is with the county and the pro teams.