Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DColeKC]

I can’t get on Facebook without seeing save the crossroads propaganda.

[KCPowercat]

I can’t get on Facebook without seeing save the crossroads propaganda.

Well there is our disconnect lol. Do they have a page on their or you are just talking individual posts. I'm trying to ascertain how big of a group this is, you all talk about that's all that's out there and I'm not at all see it.

[Cratedigger]

can someone point me to where this "save the crossroads" propaganda is located? I can't say I've seen anything about it other than a few signs? Maybe? I feel like most of the signs just say "vote no"

There’s a lot of pamphlets and flyers in bars around the crossroads. Some put together by KCT. Others look like independent write ups maybe by the business?

[taxi]

This is what I’ve been saying all along! Even if a stadium doesn’t happen, this section of crossroads will be bought up slowly overtime and transformed into something far more modern. The Calverts lot is just the beginning. So “saving the crossroads” is more like “delaying the inevitable”.

The Crossroads district is far too large and was clearly inaccurately bounded by god knows what method.

I’ve soured on the area throughout this process and I don’t feel welcome any longer in the crossroads. I’m apparently not who they want as a customer. I’ve spent more time spending money there over the last 15 years than anywhere else in the city.

If you take the unrealistic parts out of the stadium renderings, what really remains? What will it really look like?

As for the highway cap, I understand the city and state and feds have committed some money to it. DCole, I know now that you're a big spender but how much money have your boyfriends committed to the cap? And does god know what neighborhood that will belong to? Will it be "South CBD" or "North Crossroads"?

[TheLastGentleman]

How much art is actually occuring in east crossroads? I feel like it’s more of a bar and restaurant district than much of a gallery district tbh. Which is fine, but then they shouldn’t be acting like the ballpark is going to nuke a bunch of galleries when it’s a mile away

[KCPowercat]

How much art is actually occuring in east crossroads? I feel like it’s more of a bar and restaurant district than much of a gallery district tbh. Which is fine, but then they shouldn’t be acting like the ballpark is going to nuke a bunch of galleries when it’s a mile away

7'ish?
https://www.google.com/maps/search/art+ ... ?entry=ttu

[KCPowercat]

I’ve soured on the area throughout this process and I don’t feel welcome any longer in the crossroads. I’m apparently not who they want as a customer. I’ve spent more time spending money there over the last 15 years than anywhere else in the city.

This prob belongs in the xr thread but where are your favorites and what do you get there?

[taxi]

How much art is actually occuring in east crossroads? I feel like it’s more of a bar and restaurant district than much of a gallery district tbh. Which is fine, but then they shouldn’t be acting like the ballpark is going to nuke a bunch of galleries when it’s a mile away

There is more to an arts disrict than art galleries. It's a vibe and also includes music, (local) food, even retail stores, coffee shops, tattoo parlors, architects, designers, dancers, photographers, filmmakers, etc. It is organic, home-grown, alternative businesses and activities. In other words, shit you will never see in P&L.

[Cratedigger]

But cities and neighborhoods shouldn’t be encased in amber. They need to evolve as the city evolves.

This argument is not all that different from a suburban nimby who doesn’t want anything but single family homes in their neighborhood

[UMKCroo]

But cities and neighborhoods shouldn’t be encased in amber. They need to evolve as the city evolves.

This is argument is not all that different from a suburban nimby who doesn’t want anything but single family homes in his neighborhood

Exactly this. This process has really opened my eyes to the pervasiveness of NIMBY mindset, even from those purported to be advocates for development, and just how difficult it is to get people to change or to even be open to change. I am not saying this project is perfect, or that the Royals have necessarily earned our faith, but the fact that the majority of the neighborhoods first reaction is just NO rather than how can we make this $1billion + investment in our neighborhood positive for everyone is very frustrating/depressing.

I am glad we have all of these eclectic uses in the neighborhood, but there is no reason a baseball stadium will or should displace any of that vibe. We have to be honest with ourselves, the neighborhood is optimized for people to drive in and park their cars with A+ convenience. In order to make this a great urban neighborhood we must recognize that change is necessary and not always convenient.

[DColeKC]

This is what I’ve been saying all along! Even if a stadium doesn’t happen, this section of crossroads will be bought up slowly overtime and transformed into something far more modern. The Calverts lot is just the beginning. So “saving the crossroads” is more like “delaying the inevitable”.

The Crossroads district is far too large and was clearly inaccurately bounded by god knows what method.

I’ve soured on the area throughout this process and I don’t feel welcome any longer in the crossroads. I’m apparently not who they want as a customer. I’ve spent more time spending money there over the last 15 years than anywhere else in the city.

If you take the unrealistic parts out of the stadium renderings, what really remains? What will it really look like?

As for the highway cap, I understand the city and state and feds have committed some money to it. DCole, I know now that you're a big spender but how much money have your boyfriends committed to the cap? And does god know what neighborhood that will belong to? Will it be "South CBD" or "North Crossroads"?

Unrealistic parts?

I don't know, how much money have you committed to the cap? Oh sorry, you said my boyfriends, I thought you asked how much my bitches have committed.

[DColeKC]

How much art is actually occuring in east crossroads? I feel like it’s more of a bar and restaurant district than much of a gallery district tbh. Which is fine, but then they shouldn’t be acting like the ballpark is going to nuke a bunch of galleries when it’s a mile away

There is more to an arts disrict than art galleries. It's a vibe and also includes music, (local) food, even retail stores, coffee shops, tattoo parlors, architects, designers, dancers, photographers, filmmakers, etc. It is organic, home-grown, alternative businesses and activities. In other words, shit you will never see in P&L.

LOL - There's 350 acres to house these types of businesses. What you mean is "cheap rent" and that can still exist in The Crossroads.

Also, outside of art galleries, there's more "art" in PNL than all of the Crossroads if you want to talk Murals and include building interiors.

[DColeKC]

I’ve soured on the area throughout this process and I don’t feel welcome any longer in the crossroads. I’m apparently not who they want as a customer. I’ve spent more time spending money there over the last 15 years than anywhere else in the city.

This prob belongs in the xr thread but where are your favorites and what do you get there?

Oh man, I've been down here for 15 years so I can't tell you every spot and it's changed as I've changed.

Extra Virgin
Tannin Wine Bar (Fav)
Jack Stack
Torn Label
International Taphouse
The Bird
City Barrel
UpDown
Green Lady Lounge (Towards the top of my favs)
King G
Toms Town

And of course, my absolute favorite if I can even get a table and want to be judged is Chartreuse Saloon. I like to go in there and misgender people. *heavy sarcasm for those dense readers

[GRID]

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... 3&empos=p4

Royals said the streetcar could serve as many as 3,600 people attending games...

We have capacity, we have the ability to move more cars, but now's the time to do the planning to understand the costs of that, how does the ballpark district relate to our (TDD) from a funding and financing standpoint, and (making) sure that we're in a position to provide the support, the capacity and the operational horsepower that's going to be needed to make this successful," Gerend said of the Royals' project.

From a transit planning standpoint, he agreed that streetcar effects must be studied from more than just the Royals' stadium. For instance, team renderings depict a closing of Oak Street east of the stadium, at the same time the South Loop Link contemplates closing Walnut Street through the park atop Interstate 670. A comprehensive look at how coming downtown projects fit together will be needed to avoid system bottlenecks.

KCMO really needs to make Main a transit only street from union station through the downtown loop IMO. You can allow cars to use main to access businesses etc, but need to discourage cars from using Main as a through street to keep streetcars from getting caught in traffic.

Probably need to figure out how to keep Grand open at all times or not close Oak as well. Would be interesting to see what traffic modeling would come up with in a scenario where Main is limited to local access only, Walnut and Oak are closed. Grand will be severely reduced during games as well. You can see in the rendering they would narrow Grand to one lane each way and with all the pedestrian activity, it would not more a lot a traffic during games.

[langosta]

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... 3&empos=p4

Royals said the streetcar could serve as many as 3,600 people attending games...

We have capacity, we have the ability to move more cars, but now's the time to do the planning to understand the costs of that, how does the ballpark district relate to our (TDD) from a funding and financing standpoint, and (making) sure that we're in a position to provide the support, the capacity and the operational horsepower that's going to be needed to make this successful," Gerend said of the Royals' project.

From a transit planning standpoint, he agreed that streetcar effects must be studied from more than just the Royals' stadium. For instance, team renderings depict a closing of Oak Street east of the stadium, at the same time the South Loop Link contemplates closing Walnut Street through the park atop Interstate 670. A comprehensive look at how coming downtown projects fit together will be needed to avoid system bottlenecks.

KCMO really needs to make Main a transit only street from union station through the downtown loop IMO. You can allow cars to use main to access businesses etc, but need to discourage cars from using Main as a through street to keep streetcars from getting caught in traffic.

Probably need to figure out how to keep Grand open at all times or not close Oak as well. Would be interesting to see what traffic modeling would come up with in a scenario where Main is limited to local access only, Walnut and Oak are closed. Grand will be severely reduced during games as well. You can see in the rendering they would narrow Grand to one lane each way and with all the pedestrian activity, it would not more a lot a traffic during games.

Streetcar will never be good enough. Dedicated rail lanes from i70 to US on a street that isnt main is the only real solution

[TheBigChuckbowski]

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... 3&empos=p4

Royals said the streetcar could serve as many as 3,600 people attending games...

We have capacity, we have the ability to move more cars, but now's the time to do the planning to understand the costs of that, how does the ballpark district relate to our (TDD) from a funding and financing standpoint, and (making) sure that we're in a position to provide the support, the capacity and the operational horsepower that's going to be needed to make this successful," Gerend said of the Royals' project.

From a transit planning standpoint, he agreed that streetcar effects must be studied from more than just the Royals' stadium. For instance, team renderings depict a closing of Oak Street east of the stadium, at the same time the South Loop Link contemplates closing Walnut Street through the park atop Interstate 670. A comprehensive look at how coming downtown projects fit together will be needed to avoid system bottlenecks.

KCMO really needs to make Main a transit only street from union station through the downtown loop IMO. You can allow cars to use main to access businesses etc, but need to discourage cars from using Main as a through street to keep streetcars from getting caught in traffic.

Probably need to figure out how to keep Grand open at all times or not close Oak as well. Would be interesting to see what traffic modeling would come up with in a scenario where Main is limited to local access only, Walnut and Oak are closed. Grand will be severely reduced during games as well. You can see in the rendering they would narrow Grand to one lane each way and with all the pedestrian activity, it would not more a lot a traffic during games.

And this is the main reason why I'm still a no vote. I get that we're not going to know every detail before voting but this isn't just a detail. The potential for grinding the streetcar to halt is very real. And, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just assume they'll figure it out and get it right. What about this process would make anyone assume that they'll figure it out and get it right?

IMO, if the Royals give up on a downtown stadium because they don't pass this one vote then they aren't serious about being downtown. And, if they're not serious about being downtown then, if it does pass, they're going to value-engineer the renderings we've seen down to a junk minor league park with none of the infrastructure improvements and kill streetcar operations from the River Market to UMKC and provide nothing of value from a downtown resident/urbanist standpoint other than the ability to walk to baseball games. If they're serious about being downtown then they'll spend some time to figure out all of this stuff that needs to be figured out and build a consensus and then go back to voters or formulate a different funding mechanism that doesn't require a vote.

[GRID]

Transit is never going to improve to something more robust unless downtown becomes more of a focal point again. A downtown is stadium gives KC another reason to start building an actual LRT system. Kind of a chicken before the egg thing.

At the very least, you might see some drastic improvements to the existing streetcar line (making more of it in dedicated RoW etc).

[DColeKC]

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... 3&empos=p4

Royals said the streetcar could serve as many as 3,600 people attending games...

We have capacity, we have the ability to move more cars, but now's the time to do the planning to understand the costs of that, how does the ballpark district relate to our (TDD) from a funding and financing standpoint, and (making) sure that we're in a position to provide the support, the capacity and the operational horsepower that's going to be needed to make this successful," Gerend said of the Royals' project.

From a transit planning standpoint, he agreed that streetcar effects must be studied from more than just the Royals' stadium. For instance, team renderings depict a closing of Oak Street east of the stadium, at the same time the South Loop Link contemplates closing Walnut Street through the park atop Interstate 670. A comprehensive look at how coming downtown projects fit together will be needed to avoid system bottlenecks.

KCMO really needs to make Main a transit only street from union station through the downtown loop IMO. You can allow cars to use main to access businesses etc, but need to discourage cars from using Main as a through street to keep streetcars from getting caught in traffic.

Probably need to figure out how to keep Grand open at all times or not close Oak as well. Would be interesting to see what traffic modeling would come up with in a scenario where Main is limited to local access only, Walnut and Oak are closed. Grand will be severely reduced during games as well. You can see in the rendering they would narrow Grand to one lane each way and with all the pedestrian activity, it would not more a lot a traffic during games.

And this is the main reason why I'm still a no vote. I get that we're not going to know every detail before voting but this isn't just a detail. The potential for grinding the streetcar to halt is very real. And, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just assume they'll figure it out and get it right. What about this process would make anyone assume that they'll figure it out and get it right?

IMO, if the Royals give up on a downtown stadium because they don't pass this one vote then they aren't serious about being downtown. And, if they're not serious about being downtown then, if it does pass, they're going to value-engineer the renderings we've seen down to a junk minor league park with none of the infrastructure improvements and kill streetcar operations from the River Market to UMKC and provide nothing of value from a downtown resident/urbanist standpoint other than the ability to walk to baseball games. If they're serious about being downtown then they'll spend some time to figure out all of this stuff that needs to be figured out and build a consensus and then go back to voters or formulate a different funding mechanism that doesn't require a vote.

I don't understand why some people think we need to have high levels of detail on something that we have years to figure out. I also don't understand why people assume these things are put together by idiots who won't take all of this into consideration. Like why would the city support anything that would have a negative impact on such a massive investment like the Streetcar? We've endured years of roads being fucked up in order to have a streetcar, all to be messed up by poor planning? Why would those building the park do anything to turn people off from wanting to come downtown and live downtown which is why we're building it?

I mean come on, I understand wanting to have more details about the CBA and what the Royals will do for those displaced businesses but let's have some basic trust in our city leaders, architects, engineers and stakeholders who do not want to make anything worse or a massive inconvenience to do good work.

[Highlander]

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... 3&empos=p4



KCMO really needs to make Main a transit only street from union station through the downtown loop IMO. You can allow cars to use main to access businesses etc, but need to discourage cars from using Main as a through street to keep streetcars from getting caught in traffic.

Probably need to figure out how to keep Grand open at all times or not close Oak as well. Would be interesting to see what traffic modeling would come up with in a scenario where Main is limited to local access only, Walnut and Oak are closed. Grand will be severely reduced during games as well. You can see in the rendering they would narrow Grand to one lane each way and with all the pedestrian activity, it would not more a lot a traffic during games.

And this is the main reason why I'm still a no vote. I get that we're not going to know every detail before voting but this isn't just a detail. The potential for grinding the streetcar to halt is very real. And, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just assume they'll figure it out and get it right. What about this process would make anyone assume that they'll figure it out and get it right?

IMO, if the Royals give up on a downtown stadium because they don't pass this one vote then they aren't serious about being downtown. And, if they're not serious about being downtown then, if it does pass, they're going to value-engineer the renderings we've seen down to a junk minor league park with none of the infrastructure improvements and kill streetcar operations from the River Market to UMKC and provide nothing of value from a downtown resident/urbanist standpoint other than the ability to walk to baseball games. If they're serious about being downtown then they'll spend some time to figure out all of this stuff that needs to be figured out and build a consensus and then go back to voters or formulate a different funding mechanism that doesn't require a vote.

I don't understand why some people think we need to have high levels of detail on something that we have years to figure out. I also don't understand why people assume these things are put together by idiots who won't take all of this into consideration. Like why would the city support anything that would have a negative impact on such a massive investment like the Streetcar? We've endured years of roads being fucked up in order to have a streetcar, all to be messed up by poor planning? Why would those building the park do anything to turn people off from wanting to come downtown and live downtown which is why we're building it?

I mean come on, I understand wanting to have more details about the CBA and what the Royals will do for those displaced businesses but let's have some basic trust in our city leaders, architects, engineers and stakeholders who do not want to make anything worse or a massive inconvenience to do good work.

Why would any entity start spending big money to plan and design a stadium and the infrastructure required to support it when they don't know if they will be be able to build it in the first place. It's crazy to expect them to do that. The cost is prohibitive (as much as 15-20% of the total project cost). That would be like spending 150 million dollars in advance of a vote.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I also don't understand why people assume these things are put together by idiots who won't take all of this into consideration.

Probably because this entire process has made the Royals look like idiots not taking important issues into consideration.

Not to mention the city and county don't exactly have the best track record. I don't understand how anyone would assume everything is just going to work out perfectly despite all evidence to the contrary.