Downtown Baseball Stadium

[GRID]

This is about downtown Kansas City finally knowing our worth. We don’t have to desperately take any deal brought to the table and deals have to be fair. We shouldn’t be negotiating from a place of weakness, like we did with Cordish and P&L.

I'm trying really hard to see downtown KC in the same way you guys see it. Downtown KC is still trying to get over the hump. Still. Today. Every single city in the entire country has seen at least as much downtown growth that KC has seen in the past 20 years, most a lot more.

In the past 20 years, there are a few new five over ones and a couple of new 12 story building in the Crossroads. Downtown has seen pretty much no new construction outside of the P&L District and even that area is not exactly boomtown adding a new 20 story building every five years. But the three Light buildings, H&R Block and the 1400 KC building would not be there if it were not for the Cordish deal.

So much of downtown, including the Crossroads, is still parking lots and barely used buildings. It's a harsh reality.

I can't even freaking imagine KC today had the city not made a deal with Cordish. I think you would be looking at the most stagnant major downtown in the country BY FAR except maybe Memphis?

I can see wanting to put the stadium in EV, but this save the crossroads thing has gone silly.

And nearly all the backlash is still on the Royals when it should be on the Chiefs. Good lord that was a slap in the face by the Hunts. I would almost vote no on this just based on the Chiefs alone. A 40 year tax for another basic renovation to Arrowhead is the dumbest thing ever.

I don't know if KC can even pull off a new stadium. Not like the renderings show anyway. That's my main issue with the Royals stadium.

I'm starting to care less and less about this. I'll be at opening day at Nats stadium, I have what I'm trying to get in KC in my backyard. I'm not sure why I care about KC this much anymore. It's exhausting. My only fear is the teams leaving or moving to Kansas, but that's probably several years out from being a real threat.

No you won't, you can't quit us! I will say maybe judging KC on a reverse curve is a bit jarse. Those of us seeing it everyday feel pretty good about where we are and where we are going.

Comparing KC to DC is never going to end well. Different leagues.

I have not given up on KC, I have given up trying to talk to people in KC about what a city is supposed to be like and I'm not talking about this forum.

I also never, ever compare KC to DC. I just stated I have most of what I want in a city with DC nearby. I compare KC to similar sized cities or cities that were similar sized to KC not too long ago or cities that are about to be similar sized.

I doubt I will ever be able to stop caring. Maybe just take step back. If the sports teams move to Kansas. That will be the last straw though. Mark my words, I will be done with KC if that happens. I mean, I have had zero interest in Sporting KC since they moved into the parking lot of Nebraska Furniture Mart. The second they moved, they became a KS team, not a KC team in my mind. But the Royals and the Chiefs and the economic activity and civic pride they give the city will be too much. I know it's a long shot, just saying, that's what would finally end my love hate relationship with KC for good.

The Chiefs really pissed me off on this. They are blowing it. The Chiefs are the most popular NFL team in the world right now and that's not hyperbole. And what are the owners are giving back to the city? Just tired of the wasted opportunities.

But then again. If the Chiefs were to do something special, that's going to cost money and we can spend tax money in KC. Never mind that the only parts of downtown that don't have crumbling sidewalks are near new development that often have TIF. I mean a new downtown stadium will bring with it many blocks of new infrastructure that does not happen in downtown KC otherwise.

[GRID]

This is about downtown Kansas City finally knowing our worth. We don’t have to desperately take any deal brought to the table and deals have to be fair. We shouldn’t be negotiating from a place of weakness, like we did with Cordish and P&L.

In the past 20 years, there are a few new five over ones and a couple of new 12 story building in the Crossroads. Downtown has seen pretty much no new construction outside of the P&L District and even that area is not exactly boomtown adding a new 20 story building every five years. But the three Light buildings, H&R Block and the 1400 KC building would not be there if it were not for the Cordish deal.

So much of downtown, including the Crossroads, is still parking lots and barely used buildings. It's a harsh reality.

I can't even freaking imagine KC today had the city not made a deal with Cordish. I think you would be looking at the most stagnant major downtown in the country BY FAR except maybe Memphis?

I can see wanting to put the stadium in EV, but this save the crossroads thing has gone silly.

Massively incorrect take...

Downtown has had an insane amount of construction downtown that didn't show up as new buildings in the skyline but were huge projects. There wasn't a need for new buildings 15 years ago as there were so many underused and vacant buildings. Now that those building have all be filled we are starting to see more and more new buildings.

Just for example, the commerce tower, flashcube, Lucas lofts, courthouse lofts, p&l tower, att building, etc. literally several high rise buildings worth of new apartments in every part of downtown that just didn't change the skyline so they are easily forgotten about and missed if you weren't paying attention.

And I realize that KC did a lot of rehabbing first, so did a lot of other cities. One reason downtown KC did more is not only because it was previously one of the most empty downtowns with the most vacant buildings, but it lost so many employees to the suburbs. KC's corporate community bailed on KC and it turned into a regional city with no HQ, especially downtown.

KC was even converting class A and B office space to housing before it become a trend post covid.

Yes, downtown KC has changed. A lot. I mean how could it not? There were haunted houses at 13th Main. HAUNTED HOUSES.

And people say Cordish didn't make a difference or was not needed. Cordish brought with them 90% of the substantial "new" construction downtown. I mean the towers around the district are not huge, but they are bigger investments than just about anybody else has done.

I'm just saying KC has done a lot. It literally came back from the dead. I don't think there was a downtown worse than KC in the 90s. Not even Detroit.

But that doesn't mean it's over the hump. What is happening now is just like what happened after the P&L District was built. Everybody had enough of Barnes and her putting emphasis on rebuilding downtown and elected Funkhouser and proceeded to halt urban development for four years. Too much change, too much investment downtown. Time to shut it down for a few years. That's not getting the city over the hump, that's taking a step back as soon as you take a step forward.

[GRID]

Oh and for the record, while DC is doing well and is a very busy vibrant city with tons of recreation etc. I'm getting really tired of the crime, the shootings etc. I know that's a problem in KC and many other cities as well. I have not personally been a victim, but I feel like I'm always in areas that have a shooting, car jacking etc within days or even minutes of me being there. Same with family members etc.

As somebody that travels a lot internationally, I think I'm just getting tired of America in general and truly wonder if our cities can even be fixed with so many massive underlying problems that are not going to go away.

My son lives in Navy Yard and they would leave this country the first chance they get. And they live in one of the better areas of one of the better cities in the country.

My point is that most American cities have major issues that go beyond development which is most of what I talk about.

[TheLastGentleman]

Optimism runs in the family I guess

[GRID]

Optimism runs in the family I guess

They love DC. I love DC. But when you get a taste of what it's like to live in a city with incredible infrastructure, that's highly walkable, very good recreation, high services and almost no crime crime and blight compared to American cities and more of the population is educated and well traveled, it's something that I think a lot of people would do. At least for a few years.

I mean come on. America could very possibly have Trump as president again. Even if he loses, nearly half the country adores him. The first things people bring up when I travel is trump, guns etc. We are known as violent, arrogant, ignorant people in a country with little to no public infrastructure or social services. Hard to argue they are not correct.

Hard to be optimistic about this country and I have spent most of my life exploring it. I love the USA, but it's a mess right now and our cities are no exception. I just take it out on KC more than others because I want to see KC succeed more than others.

[beautyfromashes]

They love DC. I love DC. But when you get a taste of what it's like to live in a city with incredible infrastructure, that's highly walkable, very good recreation, high services and almost no crime crime and blight compared to American cities and more of the population is educated and well traveled, it's something that I think a lot of people would do. At least for a few years.

I mean come on. America could very possibly have Trump as president again. Even if he loses, nearly half the country adores him. The first things people bring up when I travel is trump, guns etc. We are known as violent, arrogant, ignorant people in a country with little to no public infrastructure or social services. Hard to argue they are not correct.

Hard to be optimistic about this country and I have spent most of my life exploring it. I love the USA, but it's a mess right now and our cities are no exception. I just take it out on KC more than others because I want to see KC succeed more than others.

I used to have to go to DC quite a bit. I liked it a lot but tired of the ignorant stereotypes about the rest of America. It's like they knew more about London or Paris or Dubai than they did about any American city 100 miles from the waves. "Uneducated farmers" and "Flyover Country" and "Bush will be the last Republican President". They seemed really out of touch. Great infrastructure though!

[GRID]

They love DC. I love DC. But when you get a taste of what it's like to live in a city with incredible infrastructure, that's highly walkable, very good recreation, high services and almost no crime crime and blight compared to American cities and more of the population is educated and well traveled, it's something that I think a lot of people would do. At least for a few years.

I mean come on. America could very possibly have Trump as president again. Even if he loses, nearly half the country adores him. The first things people bring up when I travel is trump, guns etc. We are known as violent, arrogant, ignorant people in a country with little to no public infrastructure or social services. Hard to argue they are not correct.

Hard to be optimistic about this country and I have spent most of my life exploring it. I love the USA, but it's a mess right now and our cities are no exception. I just take it out on KC more than others because I want to see KC succeed more than others.

I used to have to go to DC quite a bit. I liked it a lot but tired of the ignorant stereotypes about the rest of America. It's like they knew more about London or Paris or Dubai than they did about any American city 100 miles from the waves. "Uneducated farmers" and "Flyover Country" and "Bush will be the last Republican President". They seemed really out of touch. Great infrastructure though!

They do know more about overseas than middle America. Most people I know here travel quite a bit and when they travel, it's almost exclusively overseas. They barely even go to places like NYC etc. People on the coasts do not travel to the middle of the country unless forced to (work, family etc).

As hard as I seem to be on KC on this forum, I do nothing but talk it up to people here. It's not just KC, it's any city between DC and LA (except vegas and chicago). I have to constantly tell people that places like KC are not as bad as they think and that they are also very politically different from the states they are in. I don't do it quite a much anymore though and the main reason is I have finally accepted the fact that nobody has or will ever give one shit out here about KC or Indy or Columbus or any other city like that. You may as well be talking to a wall if you talk about KC. They just do not care, even if they pretend to care. They will talk about the sports teams, but don't care about the city itself.

And DC's infrastructure is good for the US, especially the metro (in the city especially), but it doesn't even compare to most other cities in first world countries around the world. And the crime is really bad. That congressman that was carjacked outside their apartment tower? Same building my son lives in. The transit center I use in Silver Spring MD gets shootings and stabbings on a very regular basis. It's sad when you actually have good transit infrastructure, that it's typically overrun by crime here. We have had drive by shooting happen during the middle of the day in areas around downtown Silver Spring right outside one of the only pedestrian streets in the region. I really don't think things like that happen around lively pedestrian areas in Birmingham or Sidney or Copenhagen.

A random guy was recently murdered in a parking garage stairwell for running back to his car to get lunch in the middle of the day in downtown silver spring. The things I have see on subways in NYC, Philly and Chicago are insane and I can't even imagine seeing that stuff overseas.

Baltimore is so bad that the inner harbor area has basically died.

Nobody in this area wants anything to do with Baltimore's downtown. Fell's Point is thriving at least. I don't know how to fix it, but as bad as people from the suburbs are about crime in the city, they are not entirely wrong. And I HATE saying that.

[beautyfromashes]

I don't know how to fix it, but as bad as people from the suburbs are about crime in the city, they are not entirely wrong. And I HATE saying that.

All true. Same here, as much as I hate to say it. Crime is too high. Homelessness is a major issue. Poor transportation.

In desperation to come up with a solution for the American urban core, it seems there's only one thing that could possibly change what we have. We've become so polarized politically that certain areas get totally written off or, on the other extreme, taken for granted. So, Republicans will never care or give funding or provide solutions for the urban core. Democrats will do the same for rural voters. So, the 50/50 suburbs get everything. The whole game is to push 5% of them to vote for their candidate. So, all money goes there, all business, all legislation. I hate to say it, but I think the only way to get Democrats or Republicans to care more about the urban core is to make it seem near possible to either gain or lose, depending on your side. Right now, the game is being played solely in the suburbs.

[dnweava]

They just dropped a new ad spot with Taylor's boyfriend's and Mahomes asking me to vote yes. We getting a downtown stadium boys.

[ericwyner]

They just dropped a new ad spot with Taylor's boyfriend's and Mahomes asking me to vote yes. We getting a downtown stadium boys.

how's those endorsements worked out for State Farm and Pfizer? probably no better than Scott Baio's endorsement of Trump

[bricknose]

I just checked out the stadium area on foot for the first time. I have to say, that area is a dump. There are few if any businesses or buildings between Grand and Oak that seem worth saving. I got dinner at Mama Ramen wanting to support the only ramen restaurant downtown, and after that experience I’m indifferent to whether it stays or goes.

What’s funny is I didn’t see any of the Vote No April 2 flyers in any of those businesses, but when I walked to West Crossroads 3-4 blocks SW of Main, they were everywhere. I feel pretty confident that the presence or absence of a stadium will not affect the Stray Cat Film Center’s ability to show films in their little basement-looking projector room.

[GRID]

I don't know how to fix it, but as bad as people from the suburbs are about crime in the city, they are not entirely wrong. And I HATE saying that.

All true. Same here, as much as I hate to say it. Crime is too high. Homelessness is a major issue. Poor transportation.

In desperation to come up with a solution for the American urban core, it seems there's only one thing that could possibly change what we have. We've become so polarized politically that certain areas get totally written off or, on the other extreme, taken for granted. So, Republicans will never care or give funding or provide solutions for the urban core. Democrats will do the same for rural voters. So, the 50/50 suburbs get everything. The whole game is to push 5% of them to vote for their candidate. So, all money goes there, all business, all legislation. I hate to say it, but I think the only way to get Democrats or Republicans to care more about the urban core is to make it seem near possible to either gain or lose, depending on your side. Right now, the game is being played solely in the suburbs.

Absolutely. Agree 100%. Sorry back to the downtown stadium!

[GRID]

I just checked out the stadium area on foot for the first time. I have to say, that area is a dump. There are few if any businesses or buildings between Grand and Oak that seem worth saving. I got dinner at Mama Ramen wanting to support the only ramen restaurant downtown, and after that experience I’m indifferent to whether it stays or goes.

What’s funny is I didn’t see any of the Vote No April 2 flyers in any of those businesses, but when I walked to West Crossroads 3-4 blocks SW of Main, they were everywhere. I feel pretty confident that the presence or absence of a stadium will not affect the Stray Cat Film Center’s ability to show films in their little basement-looking projector room.

People are even mad at the idea of tearing down the Star factory. That thing needs to go or it's going to be a deteriorating disaster in another ten years. Who cares if the owners of the building make money on a sale.

[WoodDraw]

I just checked out the stadium area on foot for the first time. I have to say, that area is a dump. There are few if any businesses or buildings between Grand and Oak that seem worth saving. I got dinner at Mama Ramen wanting to support the only ramen restaurant downtown, and after that experience I’m indifferent to whether it stays or goes.

What’s funny is I didn’t see any of the Vote No April 2 flyers in any of those businesses, but when I walked to West Crossroads 3-4 blocks SW of Main, they were everywhere. I feel pretty confident that the presence or absence of a stadium will not affect the Stray Cat Film Center’s ability to show films in their little basement-looking projector room.

People are even mad at the idea of tearing down the Star factory. That thing needs to go or it's going to be a deteriorating disaster in another ten years. Who cares if the owners of the building make money on a sale.

Who?

[GRID]

I just checked out the stadium area on foot for the first time. I have to say, that area is a dump. There are few if any businesses or buildings between Grand and Oak that seem worth saving. I got dinner at Mama Ramen wanting to support the only ramen restaurant downtown, and after that experience I’m indifferent to whether it stays or goes.

What’s funny is I didn’t see any of the Vote No April 2 flyers in any of those businesses, but when I walked to West Crossroads 3-4 blocks SW of Main, they were everywhere. I feel pretty confident that the presence or absence of a stadium will not affect the Stray Cat Film Center’s ability to show films in their little basement-looking projector room.

People are even mad at the idea of tearing down the Star factory. That thing needs to go or it's going to be a deteriorating disaster in another ten years. Who cares if the owners of the building make money on a sale.

Who?

I have seen lots of people share stuff about how the Star used incentives to build the building and then the buyer bought it on the cheap after the Star vacated it and they think the tax payers are bailing out the people that bought the building. They would rather the building stay and continue to rot away than see tax money go to purchasing the building and redeveloping the site.

They are just against the stadium and this is just another thing to throw out there to try and get people to vote no.

like I said, the save the crossroads people have gone silly.

[KCPowercat]

Normal people aren't saying this stuff. The crazy FB posts warp ones sense of reality.

Protecting the crossroads is a real concern I want to see some protections discussed and agreed to. I'm waiting on smarter people than I to decide what those are.

[TheUrbanRoo]

They just dropped a new ad spot with Taylor's boyfriend's and Mahomes asking me to vote yes. We getting a downtown stadium boys.

how's those endorsements worked out for State Farm and Pfizer? probably no better than Scott Baio's endorsement of Trump

Uh…but Trump won

[GRID]

Normal people aren't saying this stuff. The crazy FB posts warp ones sense of reality.

Protecting the crossroads is a real concern I want to see some protections discussed and agreed to. I'm waiting on smarter people than I to decide what those are.

I know it's a concern for you and a legit one. But you are still open to the idea despite the concerns. These people are against it no matter what and have simply gone along with the "save the crossroads" campaign, probably because it's better than just not wanting a downtown stadium since "kauffman is fine". If this stadium were six blocks further east they would find different reasons to be against it.

[ericwyner]

They just dropped a new ad spot with Taylor's boyfriend's and Mahomes asking me to vote yes. We getting a downtown stadium boys.

how's those endorsements worked out for State Farm and Pfizer? probably no better than Scott Baio's endorsement of Trump

Uh…but Trump won

but not because of the Scott Baio endorsement?

[KCPowercat]

Let's just squash polluting this thread with any political talk right now. thanks.