taxi wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:56 am
Let's be honest. Nobody is going to help those displaced businesses. The only ones that can are their landlords and it's unlikely that will happen in any of these cases.
Hasn’t Abbot already verbally committed to doing exactly that though?
I think it depends who you ask. He has said that in the media, but talk and action are two different things. I don't know the guy but I hope he does.
I can't get over Green Dirt Farms. Only a modicum of creativity was required to work around their project. They are getting screwed, no matter how much "just" compensation they receive.
taxi wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:56 am
Let's be honest. Nobody is going to help those displaced businesses. The only ones that can are their landlords and it's unlikely that will happen in any of these cases.
Hasn’t Abbot already verbally committed to doing exactly that though?
I think it depends who you ask. He has said that in the media, but talk and action are two different things. I don't know the guy but I hope he does.
I can't get over Green Dirt Farms. Only a modicum of creativity was required to work around their project. They are getting screwed, no matter how much "just" compensation they receive.
No disagreement from me that they’re being done dirty. I still think they’re going too big with the footprint, and can easily do this with just the 4 blocks between Grand and Oak
dnweava wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:56 pm
I was curious how many cities have urban vs suburban stadiums. I know the south is full of suburban stadiums so I didn't even research there, but in the heartland it's almost entirely urban baseball. Literally every AA, AAA, and MLB stadium in this circle are Urban except the Royals organization and the Brewers. I admittedly left off 2 AA teams in Tennessee, and 1 AA team in Pennsylvania off the map that seemingly play in the middle of nowhere so I figured they weren't really comparable.
Crazy, literally everywhere can figure out urban baseball except the Royals organization. The new Omaha and NW Arkansas Stadiums look like awful locations to watch baseball.
I saw you post this awful argument on Reddit and rightfully get lit up for it
dnweava wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:56 pm
I was curious how many cities have urban vs suburban stadiums. I know the south is full of suburban stadiums so I didn't even research there, but in the heartland it's almost entirely urban baseball. Literally every AA, AAA, and MLB stadium in this circle are Urban except the Royals organization and the Brewers. I admittedly left off 2 AA teams in Tennessee, and 1 AA team in Pennsylvania off the map that seemingly play in the middle of nowhere so I figured they weren't really comparable.
Crazy, literally everywhere can figure out urban baseball except the Royals organization. The new Omaha and NW Arkansas Stadiums look like awful locations to watch baseball.
I saw you post this awful argument on Reddit and rightfully get lit up for it
What's your problem? This is a simple point of fact made by dnweava and you (and those on Reddit) want to shit on this user for pointing out the obvious? Fuck me. The anti sales tax vote people, and those who are so hellbent on anything even remotely related to being against this proposal, are some of the most obnoxious and vile people on social media these days. Seriously, WTF is the problem with these people? And I don't mean people like Dave who have genuine concerns over the future of the Crossroads. It's those who don't like the facts presented.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:52 pm
The anti sales tax vote people, and those who are so hellbent on anything even remotely related to being against this proposal, are some of the most obnoxious and vile people on social media these days. Seriously, WTF is the problem with these people? And I don't mean people like Dave who have genuine concerns over the future of the Crossroads. It's those who don't like the facts presented.
I have noticed that too. The people against the stadium are downright mean and do not want to even debate. It's very similar to trying to reason with Trumpsters. There is no way to have an adult conversation with them.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:52 pm
The anti sales tax vote people, and those who are so hellbent on anything even remotely related to being against this proposal, are some of the most obnoxious and vile people on social media these days. Seriously, WTF is the problem with these people? And I don't mean people like Dave who have genuine concerns over the future of the Crossroads. It's those who don't like the facts presented.
I have noticed that too. The people against the stadium are downright mean and do not want to even debate. It's very similar to trying to reason with Trumpsters. There is no way to have an adult conversation with them.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:52 pm
The anti sales tax vote people, and those who are so hellbent on anything even remotely related to being against this proposal, are some of the most obnoxious and vile people on social media these days. Seriously, WTF is the problem with these people? And I don't mean people like Dave who have genuine concerns over the future of the Crossroads. It's those who don't like the facts presented.
I have noticed that too. The people against the stadium are downright mean and do not want to even debate. It's very similar to trying to reason with Trumpsters. There is no way to have an adult conversation with them.
I think one thing we can all agree on, both the Royals and Chiefs have out of touch owners with zero charisma. Both had the worst stadium reveals with zero pizazz. We are the stadium design capitol of the world and both were massive letdowns. Populus is overrated.
I like the crossroads location and I like that they would preserve Arrowhead's iconic shape but these are both so half-assed and neither owner seemed at all excited. I honestly wonder if they are cahoots together so the vote fails so far ahead of the lease expiring that they still have time to get Kansas/NKC locations open before 2031 but put on a show like they tried to stay in Jackson Co without angering the fans as many MO based fans want absolutely nothing to do with the legends.
Or the plan is for this to fail, the Royals end up working with the city government directly in a way that doesn't require a public vote and the Chiefs go alone with working with the county so they get the entire 3/8th and can afford a true full revamp of the stadium.
Everything just feels fishy after today and I don't think either team wants this to pass based on their level of effort.
This is not a secret mission they hope fails for some other purpose. They’re spending real money on this effort and while it could have all been so much better regarding how it’s been handled, there’s nothing fishy. You have two sports teams who have a lot going on. Neither owner is a developer and both have no experience in that sector. They should have brought in help first before any other single move.
Also, populous is far from overrated. We have seen conceptual drawings with small budgets compared to their other projects. This is still Kansas City at the end of the day.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:54 pm
This is not a secret mission they hope fails for some other purpose. They’re spending real money on this effort and while it could have all been so much better regarding how it’s been handled, there’s nothing fishy. You have two sports teams who have a lot going on. Neither owner is a developer and both have no experience in that sector. They should have brought in help first before any other single move.
Also, populous is far from overrated. We have seen conceptual drawings with small budgets compared to their other projects. This is still Kansas City at the end of the day.
The Hunts are 100% developers ... Hunt Midwest, they literally do non-stop development in the area.
Last edited by dnweava on Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GRID made a good point in the Chiefs Stadium thread about how John Sherman will spend a lot more private money on the Royals Stadium and District than the $300 Million the Hunts will throw into the Arrowhead renovation. And the Hunts have far more money than the Shermans. And from what we've heard before, the entire cost of the stadium won't solely rest on the sales tax revenue, it'll be partially private funded as well. So that's over $1 Billion from the Shermans vs $300 Million from the Hunts.
That fact actually makes me support for the Royals plan tick upwards a little bit more because it's clear that John Sherman wants to build a nice product and is willing to fork over considerable amounts of money to make it happen (but sales tax money will help support the most public component of this - the stadium and infrastructure enhancements).
This brings me to my most insane theory: if the sales tax vote fails and John Sherman owns the buildings/sites in the Crossroads, he could just decide to advance the stadium plans with a dialed back district plan in order to push the Royals into a new era.
I don't know, perhaps the real boogeyman here isn't John Sherman and his Crossroads Stadium + Ballpark District.
He might not be a developer, and might not know how to sell a new vision and idea, but he's not an idiot.
It's clear that the Hunts are riding on the legacy of the Chiefs to deliver a win while John Sherman is counting on creating a new legacy for the Royals with the help of the public.
It's clear to me who cares more about their franchise, city, and team legacy at the end of the day. Just work a little bit with the neighborhood and business owners and your new team legacy will be firmly established.
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:19 pm
Isn't that an argument for east village where you can define a neighborhood?
As far as I've seen the legacy is like a couple buildings?
Exactly. And those couple of legacy buildings – a hotel? An office? – will be built on the ruins of historic buildings that are homes to legitimate businesses. Kind of reminds me of the Catholic church tearing down the Mayan and Aztec temples and building their oversized churches atop the ruins. Perhaps there are no virgins left in the Crossroads.
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:19 pm
Isn't that an argument for east village where you can define a neighborhood?
As far as I've seen the legacy is like a couple buildings?
The argument applies to both the Crossroads and East Village site. And the legacy is more than a couple buildings - it’s a new home for the hometown team for many decades to come.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:10 pm
GRID made a good point in the Chiefs Stadium thread about how John Sherman will spend a lot more private money on the Royals Stadium and District than the $300 Million the Hunts will throw into the Arrowhead renovation. And the Hunts have far more money than the Shermans. And from what we've heard before, the entire cost of the stadium won't solely rest on the sales tax revenue, it'll be partially private funded as well. So that's over $1 Billion from the Shermans vs $300 Million from the Hunts.
That fact actually makes me support for the Royals plan tick upwards a little bit more because it's clear that John Sherman wants to build a nice product and is willing to fork over considerable amounts of money to make it happen (but sales tax money will help support the most public component of this - the stadium and infrastructure enhancements).
This brings me to my most insane theory: if the sales tax vote fails and John Sherman owns the buildings/sites in the Crossroads, he could just decide to advance the stadium plans with a dialed back district plan in order to push the Royals into a new era.
I don't know, perhaps the real boogeyman here isn't John Sherman and his Crossroads Stadium + Ballpark District.
He might not be a developer, and might not know how to sell a new vision and idea, but he's not an idiot.
It's clear that the Hunts are riding on the legacy of the Chiefs to deliver a win while John Sherman is counting on creating a new legacy for the Royals with the help of the public.
It's clear to me who cares more about their franchise, city, and team legacy at the end of the day. Just work a little bit with the neighborhood and business owners and your new team legacy will be firmly established.
This was the original plan with the EV site, until the ownership group decided to consider a public-private partnership and then Jackson Co. screwed the pooch.
It's also why the NKC site is still very much in play, and is our most likely candidate with the vote headed towards failure. Clay County won't have to foot the entire bill, and there's a world in which they don't foot any of the bill. Ownership is not likely to roll with the EV if the EC site burns their goodwill even further. They'll jump to Clay County and use the land their good friends have already assembled for them.
As bad as things look from the outside with all the switching and what not, it's really just a reflection on how inept Jackson County and the city to an extent, have been. They forced everyone to play this game.
I got my first YouTube ad today saying to vote yes.
It was a nice feel good ad with a lot of Chiefs highlights, some royals, taking about legacy and stuff. And of course no new taxes and keep the teams in Jackson Co was the main things they hit on. No shots of either stadium plan.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:54 pm
This is not a secret mission they hope fails for some other purpose. They’re spending real money on this effort and while it could have all been so much better regarding how it’s been handled, there’s nothing fishy. You have two sports teams who have a lot going on. Neither owner is a developer and both have no experience in that sector. They should have brought in help first before any other single move.
Also, populous is far from overrated. We have seen conceptual drawings with small budgets compared to their other projects. This is still Kansas City at the end of the day.
The Hunts are 100% developers ... Hunt Midwest, they literally do non-stop development in the area.
They do industrial properties, data centers and storage facilities. Not exactly the same set of PR and political finesse required for a warehouse Vs public private partnership.
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:19 pm
Isn't that an argument for east village where you can define a neighborhood?
As far as I've seen the legacy is like a couple buildings?
Exactly. And those couple of legacy buildings – a hotel? An office? – will be built on the ruins of historic buildings that are homes to legitimate businesses. Kind of reminds me of the Catholic church tearing down the Mayan and Aztec temples and building their oversized churches atop the ruins. Perhaps there are no virgins left in the Crossroads.
“Ruins of historic buildings” lol
You’re not really comparing anything being torn down in this area of EC to Mayan and Aztec temples are you?
Some people need to drop the “but EV” talk. It’s not happening. Why are we wasting time on it? The East Village site is…... History.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:35 pmYou’re not really comparing anything being torn down in this area of EC to Mayan and Aztec temples are you?
It's not THAT ridiculous, is it? People with more money than I have come in and destroy everything that I built to extract money from people, and replace it with their shit built to extract money from people. I'd be mad, too. These are my victims, you can't have them! And also I'm less rich so you should feel sorry for me. I dunno. Maybe I've gotten too cynical. On some level, actually probably most levels, I want everyone here to lose.
