Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DColeKC]

Why haven’t the Chiefs released renderings or a plan yet if the vote is in a month?

Because of the shooting. Plan was to go full blown this week until that happened.

[GRID]

If the vote fails (and I think it probably will unless there is a last minute marketing miracle), I think it will be time to rise up against KC Tenants. The amount of damage they are doing to the future of KC is starting to become unimaginable.

[taxi]

Regarding the fed buildings, I'm sure Sherman and the Royals have been very sensitive to their needs and want to work with them and will buy them out for a fair amount. After all, they will see a nice profit. After Trump is elected, they won't be there long anyway. The baseball stadium is a higher and better use and surely they will understand it is for the greater good.

[wahoowa]

to the extent the organization has lost the race to public opinion to a bunch of loud people on the internet, i'm not going to blame the loud people on the internet for it. this was always the downside risk of fumbling the rollout. i suspect pretty much everyone here would agree the rollout has been fumbled. and that was true months ago without regard for the tragedy at the parade.

if the vote fails (still very doubtful imo) the org(s) can always come back in a year or two with an actual plan instead of a mystical rendering of a massive fountain atop an unfunded highway cap. the tax doesn't expire anytime soon.

if this is their "use it or lose it" window for some reason that may be perfectly valid but is undiscernable to me, again that just underscores what a colossal failure the rollout has been to date given their internal decisionmaking as to the stakes of this vote.

[KCPowercat]

If the vote fails (and I think it probably will unless there is a last minute marketing miracle), I think it will be time to rise up against KC Tenants. The amount of damage they are doing to the future of KC is starting to become unimaginable.

What actual damage have they done again? I mean I'm obviously pro dev but they have valid points they bring up.

I'll take on any wagers of this vote failing.

[GRID]

If it fails, I think they will go back to the voters (somewhere/somehow), I'm just not sure downtown will be on the table anymore.

[FlippantCitizen]

to the extent the organization has lost the race to public opinion to a bunch of loud people on the internet, i'm not going to blame the loud people on the internet for it. this was always the downside risk of fumbling the rollout. i suspect pretty much everyone here would agree the rollout has been fumbled. and that was true months ago without regard for the tragedy at the parade.

if the vote fails (still very doubtful imo) the org(s) can always come back in a year or two with an actual plan instead of a mystical rendering of a massive fountain atop an unfunded highway cap. the tax doesn't expire anytime soon.

if this is their "use it or lose it" window for some reason that may be perfectly valid but is undiscernable to me, again that just underscores what a colossal failure the rollout has been to date given their internal decisionmaking as to the stakes of this vote.

Agreed. All the consternation from some posters here that people on facebook are idiots and don't have their facts straight... well duh guys, c'mon that was always going to be the case. Likewise I don't necessarily see why this is the use it or lose it window either. Maybe there is a rationale for that but if so the precise reasons haven't been explained.

[KCPowercat]

Extending taxes infinitely easier than letting it expire and asking for a new tax. That's my guess.

[FlippantCitizen]

Extending taxes infinitely easier than letting it expire and asking for a new tax. That's my guess.

Yeah but doesn't the current tax not expire until at least when the lease on Kauffman is up? Like 2031 or whatever it is.

[GRID]

I understand that social media is wildly against the new stadium to the point where I think most supporters have stopped even trying show their support online. My concern is based on people I personally know. I have a ton of family and friends in Jackson County from Hyde Park all the way to Oak Grove. And the vast majority of them do not support a new Royals Stadium. I’m not sure it’s enough for all of them to say no to the Chiefs, but I think it might be enough.

And these are people that constantly hear me on my soapbox about how great walkable vibrant cities are etc. I think a lot of people in the county interact with very few people (if any at all) that are pro downtown like I am that could open their minds a bit more.

I don’t think there is a problem with being concerned and thinking about what happens if the vote fails.

[DColeKC]

I do think there's time to get the word out. If for some reason this vote fails, I think we can expect another try in the fall and if that fails, we have lost our one chance at downtown baseball. They will not be renovating Kauffman and they just need to say that, amongst other things. They need to come out and say, tax dollars, no tax dollars, nothing will "save the K"... NOTHING. Put that group to bed.

[GRID]

I do think there's time to get the word out. If for some reason this vote fails, I think we can expect another try in the fall and if that fails, we have lost our one chance at downtown baseball. They will not be renovating Kauffman and they just need to say that, amongst other things. They need to come out and say, tax dollars, no tax dollars, nothing will "save the K"... NOTHING. Put that group to bed.

Maybe it will take a failed vote to convince people that saving Kauffman is not an option and they will be more supportive the second time around after six months of stories about ten other cities licking their chops to try and lure the Royals to their city.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Yeah I don't think they'll throw away downtown just because they weren't able to navigate around a random shooting in 40 days. They're not that dumb.

[Chris Stritzel]

Federal Courthouse security is managed by the U.S. Marshals, not FPS.

Eagleton was also built prior to 9/11

The stadium was not.

Correct. The second Busch Stadium was there before Eagleton was built. Security requirements were different back then than they are now. Such a project likely wouldn’t occur today (example: Feds have played with demoing some buildings in Chicago that are too close to one of their buildings. I can’t remember which one though).

[Highlander]

I do think there's time to get the word out. If for some reason this vote fails, I think we can expect another try in the fall and if that fails, we have lost our one chance at downtown baseball. They will not be renovating Kauffman and they just need to say that, amongst other things. They need to come out and say, tax dollars, no tax dollars, nothing will "save the K"... NOTHING. Put that group to bed.

Maybe it will take a failed vote to convince people that saving Kauffman is not an option and they will be more supportive the second time around after six months of stories about ten other cities licking their chops to try and lure the Royals to their city.

I've seen a couple of Nashville news stories about our upcoming vote - it's captured the attention of wanna be baseball towns. I'm not optimistic about downtown. Everyone I know in Jackson County that can vote, in the burbs and in Brookside, Waldo and even a surprising number of people here on the forum will vote no. The social media I see is overwhelmingly NO. There are at least two organized efforts to kill the vote. Frankly, and I know you will hate this, I think the Royals most likely move will be to Kansas. I'd like to know why many here remain optimistic?

[FlippantCitizen]

I honestly had no idea the extent to which something like having other buildings nearby would affect the feds' view of security of their own buildings. I mean the presence of other building wouldn't seem to affect the possibility of a truck borne IED... maybe sniper attacks..? I digress because I'm not an expert in security concerns.

While having federal workers in a downtown areas seems like a huge positive for any city the idea that they feel they need some kind of secure perimeter seems completely at odds with being in a central business district at all.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

The top two outlined structures are the FAA/FTA building, and it’s associated parking garage, the southern is the Richard Bolling federal facility, and it’s associated parking infrastructure.

The cost that FPS, GSA, and by extension the American tax payer is liable for to fill one guard position at one of these facilities is astronomical (like between $180,000-$200,000 annually). Some of these facilities have dozens of positions. Adding points of high activity, as well as the associated security concerns that a large crowd would present that close to federal buildings is not some “throw a few dollars at it” issue. You’re talking about adding millions of dollars in new security that will only increase in cost annually, that will have to be scheduled irregularly. It’s not just tossing up a few cameras and a gate, it’s manning those positions, developing the secondary and tertiary security behind those elements.

The best security to the feds is having no issue at all. It’s easier for them to have empty lots or low rise development adjacent to the facilities that provide low traffic, and predictability. Crowds and gamedays would provide Chaos and security concerns constantly, and that’s a lot more than FPS or GSA would be willing to simply negotiate on. It’s a non-starter.

Thanks for pointing out the FAA building, I completely overlooked that. I still stand by the feds present obstacles, but cities overcome these all the time. I know this because I work at a company that specializes in building federal buildings and facilities. I also know the city should have consultants that help them plan around these obstacles and Kansas City has many. It would make sense to me if the Royals didn't have access to these resources. Also, it sounds like city leadership preferred EC over EV, so there wasn't much effort put into working out issues with that site.

The Federal Transportation office and it's garages are privately owned buildings that they lease, feds don't exactly have jurisdiction on them except if a crime is committed on that property then it seems it could be considered a "federal enclave" in some cases, but as a private property, all the city zoning and building codes would apply for example, while local laws don't apply on federally owned properties is how I understand it.

Even in the case of the Chicago buildings I've been looking into (can't find the youtube video that I know I've watched on it), the buildings are owned by the GSA and judges have blocked the GSA from selling them to private developers for safety reasons.

https://www.preservationchicago.org/thr ... 2013-2022/

I'm not finding any precedent for how the Feds would have any power on what the city/county approve to be built on those properties unless they were threatening federal eminent domain to take the properties under their ownership.

Jurisdiction only matters for enforcement by FPS of Federal law. Security relating to building location, regardless of lease or direct ownership by GSA, is separate from jurisdiction. Adjacent uses play into the Security requirements, and regardless of if they should, GSA, FPS, & DHS will all take a stance against things that make their job more arduous.

It’s really stupid, that’s for sure.

Sitting through the classes for 3 1/2 weeks on security of federal buildings made me realize just how much authority they can truly wield. It’s not completely insurmountable, but it’d be a much more arduous lift by a combined front of the City, County, Royals, and likely even the State before they’d yield. And even then…who knows.

The biggest thing is they’d send it to Courts, likely with a lawsuit of some kind, in order to hamstring the process.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I honestly had no idea the extent to which something like having other buildings nearby would affect the feds' view of security of their own buildings. I mean the presence of other building wouldn't seem to affect the possibility of a truck borne IED... maybe sniper attacks..? I digress because I'm not an expert in security concerns.

While having federal workers in a downtown areas seems like a huge positive for any city the idea that they feel they need some kind of secure perimeter seems completely at odds with being in a central business district at all.

If anything, this job has made me realize that it isn’t worth it to have these offices downtown, and they honestly SHOULD be relegated to suburban office parks.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I do think there's time to get the word out. If for some reason this vote fails, I think we can expect another try in the fall and if that fails, we have lost our one chance at downtown baseball. They will not be renovating Kauffman and they just need to say that, amongst other things. They need to come out and say, tax dollars, no tax dollars, nothing will "save the K"... NOTHING. Put that group to bed.

Maybe it will take a failed vote to convince people that saving Kauffman is not an option and they will be more supportive the second time around after six months of stories about ten other cities licking their chops to try and lure the Royals to their city.

I've seen a couple of Nashville news stories about our upcoming vote - it's captured the attention of wanna be baseball towns. I'm not optimistic about downtown. Everyone I know in Jackson County that can vote, in the burbs and in Brookside, Waldo and even a surprising number of people here on the forum will vote no. The social media I see is overwhelmingly NO. There are at least two organized efforts to kill the vote. Frankly, and I know you will hate this, I think the Royals most likely move will be to Kansas. I'd like to know why many here remain optimistic?

They can theoretically pull off the stadium in the XR without the County funding. Would they be willing to? Who knows.

[TheUrbanRoo]

The Chiefs just won back to back Super Bowls. That will carry this over the line once the campaign is made to be just as much about the Chiefs than it is the Royals.

I can't see a universe where the piece of shit 2006 Chiefs/Royals could pass a vote but the Mahomes Chiefs/Royals cannot.