Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DaveKCMO]

Axiom Vs whoever the “save the K” people have hired. This is going to get interesting real fast.

IFor the "Save the K" people, I'd like to see something of substance from them than just pure NIMBYism and reluctance to change.

Let's give opponents a little bit of credit here: "Reluctance to change" completely minimizes 18 acres of demolition and displacement in YOUR neighborhood. This isn't one PV teardown or a Midtown bike lane.

[DColeKC]

Self inflicted. By choosing EC they have antagonized a demographic that would otherwise support downtown baseball.

Put it back in the EV and that problem goes away.

The thing is, all the negativity is based off of lies. Sure, there’s some concern about the businesses that would need to relocate but most of the outrage is based on flat out false information. The biggest one being that tax payers are going to pay for the village portion and it’s a plot for John Sherman to make more money. We know the village will be privately funded and the revenue it generates will go back into the team.

What "lies"? "some concern"? Read the room my man.

the royals will buy up private land, correct? That private land right now pays property taxes. The Royals will then turn over that land ownership to the county, correct? The county doesn't pay property taxes. What is that annual drop in tax revenue? How will that be offset?

That’s not what I’m talking about. There’s one post that’s been shared over 4,000 times that claims the village portion will be paid for by taxpayers. The village portion will be paid for with a billion dollars of private investment.

How will the hundreds of dollars in tax revenue currently being generated a year in the stadium footprint be offset? By one day of a mildly attended baseball game! Slight sarcasm but not really.

Here’s the post.

[KCPowercat]

You know how to combat that? Share the details of the plans and the financing. Silence brings this on and the royals have nobody to blame but themselves

[DColeKC]

You know how to combat that? Share the details of the plans and the financing. Silence brings this on and the royals have nobody to blame but themselves

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

[FlippantCitizen]

this vote has the Chiefs with them, it's not failing. that's why we're pushing so hard for good design and quickly. We know how fast it flips from "too early to talk about that level of detail" (actually posted here) to "sorry too late" in these discussions.

How sure are we about that? Despite the recent success and good feelings towards the Chiefs why would people be more inclined to extend their tax dollars to Clark Hunt than John Sherman e.g. one billionaire vs another? Do the people who are against giving public money to sports teams just forget about that position because the Chiefs are a good team?

I don't really hear anyone in my world saying "man screw the Royals, I would vote no on this if it was only the Royals but since this is about both the Chiefs and the Royals I guess I have to vote yes." Maybe those people are out there Idk. But between the people I know who would support the extension and those who oppose that's not really an argument I hear coming up. I have no idea if this passes by a landslide or gets rejected by a landslide or somewhere in between. I just haven't seen any scientific polling to suggest one way or the other and I don't have a good enough handle on the vibes to even guess.

[DColeKC]

^ I saw a small poll done by Royals Review last week that was 60+% yes. Around 650 people voted. Not scientific by any means.

[KCPowercat]

You know how to combat that? Share the details of the plans and the financing. Silence brings this on and the royals have nobody to blame but themselves

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

This is comically not enough detail. Do you think anybody complaining cares they will out village money back into the team? Talk about tone deaf

[KCPowercat]

this vote has the Chiefs with them, it's not failing. that's why we're pushing so hard for good design and quickly. We know how fast it flips from "too early to talk about that level of detail" (actually posted here) to "sorry too late" in these discussions.

How sure are we about that? Despite the recent success and good feelings towards the Chiefs why would people be more inclined to extend their tax dollars to Clark Hunt than John Sherman e.g. one billionaire vs another? Do the people who are against giving public money to sports teams just forget about that position because the Chiefs are a good team?

I don't really hear anyone in my world saying "man screw the Royals, I would vote no on this if it was only the Royals but since this is about both the Chiefs and the Royals I guess I have to vote yes." Maybe those people are out there Idk. But between the people I know who would support the extension and those who oppose that's not really an argument I hear coming up. I have no idea if this passes by a landslide or gets rejected by a landslide or somewhere in between. I just haven't seen any scientific polling to suggest one way or the other and I don't have a good enough handle on the vibes to even guess.

Going off of previous votes for the same tax and back to back super bowls. It's not failing

[bricknose]

What concerns me is the arguments that seem founded in principles of “stop corporate welfare” and “let the billionaires pay for their own damn stadium!”

Yes, a billionaire will make money, and is requesting the public to agree to give money to aid that investment. Why is this a problem so long as the residents affected by the tax get some benefit?

I could see an argument that the benefit will be localized to downtown KC only, so it’s not fair to ask the entire county to pay. That’s a fair argument. That said, the Jackson County median income is $32,000. Let’s say that half that income gets hit by the 3/8 percent sales tax (probably a vast overestimate). That comes down to $60 per year. Maybe one could argue people can’t afford that kind of expense, but it just doesn’t strike me as a huge ask to bring a stadium downtown. Even if the downtown stadium does nothing but give a billionaire $60/year/resident on the median, I don’t see how the growth inspired by such a long-term investment won’t easily make it worthwhile in the long run.

I don’t know when the premise of “win-win deals are bad if a rich person wins - we only want win-lose deals that punish the wealthy” became the standard mentality, but I worry it will lead to major depressions in investment that will harm everyone.

[DaveKCMO]

If non-voters are motivated to turn out by, say, KC Tenants or angry Crossroads business owners, that could tip the scale with the small turnout numbers we'd normally be looking at in an April election. However, the 2006 campaign drove higher-than-normal turnout.

From 2006:

Voters approved the measure 53 percent to 47 percent. A total of 93,662 votes were counted.

Turnout was 25% in KCMO and 44% outside of KCMO.

[taxi]

How about the Royals start the process by giving every Jackson Co. resident $60 credit towards tickets or concessions?

The economic benefits of a downtown stadium are arguable. The greater impact, immediately and more so over time, will change the character of the neighborhood. Whether you think that's good or not is a matter of opinion. The issue again and again is that so many of the problems people have with this process and location could be avoided by going to EV. The inflated cost of this location could be used to fix all of the perceived problems of locating in the EV.

We are taught from a young age that it is important to study and learn from history. If we do that, we would conclude that the likely outcome of this charade is: the tax will pass; buildings will get demolished; the highway cap does not get extended to the stadium; and hotel on the demolished buildings' vacant land never gets built and ends up being mostly parking. What was it that George Bush famously said?

The CR site presents so many hurdles – bad PR from displaced owners and businesses, potential lengthy and expensive delays, demolished history and dreams, impossibly optimistic and ambitious plans that never see the light of day/darkness of a tunnel.

I'm afraid that some folks here on the forum are blind to what is likely coming. You might laugh at a loudmouth business owner's remarks or a viral anti-stadium post that contains falsehoods or half-truths but you will be foolish not to anticipate a smart and well-coordinated effort by a contingency of very smart and very passionate people who are directly affected and very against this and will gain an empathetic following of voters. I am not aware of this happening, but I'm pretty sure it is and it'll be from people that have been smartly silent so far. If I were a betting man, I would wager that their efforts will kill the vote. I've said it before but it warrants repeating – this location option is stupid and greedy and will piss away our dreams of a downtown stadium. I'm not much of a baseball fan but that makes me terribly sad.

[bricknose]

How about the Royals start the process by giving every Jackson Co. resident $60 credit towards tickets or concessions?

Anyone living in or near downtown KC will probably save $60 in fuel not having to drive to Independence to see games.

Anyway, I wasn’t speaking about Crossroads vs East Village specifically, just being in downtown KC generally. Personally, I don’t care much for baseball, but I want the piggy-back developments. Whether that means another entertainment district in EV or an extended South Loop cap and Crossroads anchor, I don’t really care.

I just don’t want a No vote that throws the development opportunity away entirely.

[Rusty Irish]

The thing is, all the negativity is based off of lies. Sure, there’s some concern about the businesses that would need to relocate but most of the outrage is based on flat out false information. The biggest one being that tax payers are going to pay for the village portion and it’s a plot for John Sherman to make more money. We know the village will be privately funded and the revenue it generates will go back into the team.

What "lies"? "some concern"? Read the room my man.

the royals will buy up private land, correct? That private land right now pays property taxes. The Royals will then turn over that land ownership to the county, correct? The county doesn't pay property taxes. What is that annual drop in tax revenue? How will that be offset?

That’s not what I’m talking about. There’s one post that’s been shared over 4,000 times that claims the village portion will be paid for by taxpayers. The village portion will be paid for with a billion dollars of private investment.

How will the hundreds of dollars in tax revenue currently being generated a year in the stadium footprint be offset? By one day of a mildly attended baseball game! Slight sarcasm but not really.

Here’s the post.

That's the post I seen shared this morning. It's bullshit verging on slanderous.

[DColeKC]

You know how to combat that? Share the details of the plans and the financing. Silence brings this on and the royals have nobody to blame but themselves

They have! The tax raises $350 million dollars and they’ve committed to spending over a billion in private money. And, they’ve committed to putting the profit from the village back into the team.

This guys viral post is full of nonsense.

Sure, the royals share some blame but who is to blame for a society void of ability to do some damn fact checking before sharing just anything they see from a nobody on social media?

We don’t need finalized details before voting for a tax. More information yes, but we are not at “final plan” stage or even close.

This is comically not enough detail. Do you think anybody complaining cares they will out village money back into the team? Talk about tone deaf

Yes, I think all the baseball fans and majority of voters who want winning baseball will care that the proceeds are going back into the product on the field and not ownerships pockets.

Matter of fact, I think anyone who will vote cares about this. It’s a massive factor. Rich guy gets more rich or rich guy takes no profit and puts all revenue into the team. Obviously assets and his wealth increases but the Royals should best the hell out of this fact.

It’s about winning baseball games. It’s about a world class baseball experience. It’s about the younger fans who want more out of their money. It’s not about a rich guy getting richer.

[Chris Stritzel]

That’s not what I’m talking about. There’s one post that’s been shared over 4,000 times that claims the village portion will be paid for by taxpayers. The village portion will be paid for with a billion dollars of private investment.

How will the hundreds of dollars in tax revenue currently being generated a year in the stadium footprint be offset? By one day of a mildly attended baseball game! Slight sarcasm but not really.

Here’s the post.

Of the thousands of people who shared the post, how many are voters in Jackson County? How many aren't just people from all the other counties, suburbs, and other cities outside of KC bitching about this? It's posts like this that aren't round in reality and are designed to appeal to people who've never researched this issue or even heard about it up to this point.

It's taking me a great deal of effort to not say my true opinions on all this. My comments would make other people's comments look tame and heavenly.

[DColeKC]

How about the Royals start the process by giving every Jackson Co. resident $60 credit towards tickets or concessions?

The economic benefits of a downtown stadium are arguable. The greater impact, immediately and more so over time, will change the character of the neighborhood. Whether you think that's good or not is a matter of opinion. The issue again and again is that so many of the problems people have with this process and location could be avoided by going to EV. The inflated cost of this location could be used to fix all of the perceived problems of locating in the EV.

We are taught from a young age that it is important to study and learn from history. If we do that, we would conclude that the likely outcome of this charade is: the tax will pass; buildings will get demolished; the highway cap does not get extended to the stadium; and hotel on the demolished buildings' vacant land never gets built and ends up being mostly parking. What was it that George Bush famously said?

The CR site presents so many hurdles – bad PR from displaced owners and businesses, potential lengthy and expensive delays, demolished history and dreams, impossibly optimistic and ambitious plans that never see the light of day/darkness of a tunnel.

I'm afraid that some folks here on the forum are blind to what is likely coming. You might laugh at a loudmouth business owner's remarks or a viral anti-stadium post that contains falsehoods or half-truths but you will be foolish not to anticipate a smart and well-coordinated effort by a contingency of very smart and very passionate people who are directly affected and very against this and will gain an empathetic following of voters. I am not aware of this happening, but I'm pretty sure it is and it'll be from people that have been smartly silent so far. If I were a betting man, I would wager that their efforts will kill the vote. I've said it before but it warrants repeating – this location option is stupid and greedy and will piss away our dreams of a downtown stadium. I'm not much of a baseball fan but that makes me terribly sad.

Giving each resident a $60 credit not only wipes out the money raised but would cost them millions.

I resist that this stadium will change the neighborhood in an overall negative way. It will change it for sure but it’s completely rational to think the character that many people love about the crossroads can be more than maintained, even enchanted by this plan and the stadium can help lift all of downtown.

There is already multiple groups planning to trash this plan. KCT is a residential tenant advocacy group but plan on going against this despite the fact No residents are involved. They’ll claim it will cause rent to go up and they won’t be wrong, but it’s worth it and they fight any and all progress. Most don’t take them seriously. They’ll make some noise though.

The idea of demolished history is far fetched. Not a single historical building or business exists in the footprint.

The stadium location is smart. It’s not easy but it’s the best for our downtown over the next several decades. People opposed are thinking short term and not looking at the big picture.

Let’s mess this up and lose out on the chance for downtown baseball only to have all these businesses not exist within the the next decade anyway. The turnover rate in the crossroads is very high.

I do agree we need more details on timelines as it pertains to the village portion. The cap involves more than the royals can control. So who knows what can be promised at this on that.

[DColeKC]

That’s not what I’m talking about. There’s one post that’s been shared over 4,000 times that claims the village portion will be paid for by taxpayers. The village portion will be paid for with a billion dollars of private investment.

How will the hundreds of dollars in tax revenue currently being generated a year in the stadium footprint be offset? By one day of a mildly attended baseball game! Slight sarcasm but not really.

Here’s the post.

Of the thousands of people who shared the post, how many are voters in Jackson County? How many aren't just people from all the other counties, suburbs, and other cities outside of KC bitching about this? It's posts like this that aren't round in reality and are designed to appeal to people who've never researched this issue or even heard about it up to this point.

It's taking me a great deal of effort to not say my true opinions on all this. My comments would make other people's comments look tame and heavenly.

Good point and you should let it rip! I’ve actually changed well over 50 people this weekend from no to yes by simply correcting the misinformation in this specific post and others I’ve seen like it. Mostly via private message to avoid embarrassing them which seems to work.

[Highlander]

We are taught from a young age that it is important to study and learn from history. If we do that, we would conclude that the likely outcome of this charade is: the tax will pass; buildings will get demolished; the highway cap does not get extended to the stadium; and hotel on the demolished buildings' vacant land never gets built and ends up being mostly parking. What was it that George Bush famously said?

On the other hand, what we've learned from history is that cultural institutions when isolated do little for the area they are placed in. Only when a critical mass is present, will they be successful at generating a positive cash flow for the surrounding developments. While East Village is not TSC, it's still isolated enough from the more viable entertainment, restaurant/bar areas of downtown (whether in the P&L district or crossroads) and potentially surrounded by its own sea of parking that most visitors will behave in exactly the same way they behave when attending a Royals game presently: Arrive by car, Park, proceed to stadium, retrieve car and leave. The East Crossroads location forces people coming downtown to interact with the neighborhood and potentially spend money downtown. It also familiarizes a new generation to a pleasant downtown experience rather than seeing an abandoned corner of downtown from their parent's vehicle. It's far and above the better option for the city.

Selecting a stadium site because there is nothing currently there is probably the worst criteria possible. That's why the baseball stadium is at TSC and Kemper was in the West Bottoms). There's nothing there for a reason. The stadium doesn't have to rip out the heart of the crossroads (and it absolutely will not) but it does have to dovetail with the existing infrastructure and neighborhood.

Whether stuff gets built as advertised remains to be seen but has nothing to do with the location, both locations would be equally subjected to budget constraints knocking out the "nice-to-have's".

[Highlander]

That’s not what I’m talking about. There’s one post that’s been shared over 4,000 times that claims the village portion will be paid for by taxpayers. The village portion will be paid for with a billion dollars of private investment.

How will the hundreds of dollars in tax revenue currently being generated a year in the stadium footprint be offset? By one day of a mildly attended baseball game! Slight sarcasm but not really.

Of the thousands of people who shared the post, how many are voters in Jackson County? How many aren't just people from all the other counties, suburbs, and other cities outside of KC bitching about this? It's posts like this that aren't round in reality and are designed to appeal to people who've never researched this issue or even heard about it up to this point.

It's taking me a great deal of effort to not say my true opinions on all this. My comments would make other people's comments look tame and heavenly.

Good point and you should let it rip! I’ve actually changed well over 50 people this weekend from no to yes by simply correcting the misinformation in this specific post and others I’ve seen like it. Mostly via private message to avoid embarrassing them which seems to work.

The misinformation is not restricted to the stadium. John Sherman hasn't been involved in the energy industry since 2014 and is not the present CEO of an energy company. Nor was his propane supply company "one of the largest energy companies" in North America. Just an attempt to inflate his wealth and boogey-man-like qualities.

[Chris Stritzel]

Good point and you should let it rip! I’ve actually changed well over 50 people this weekend from no to yes by simply correcting the misinformation in this specific post and others I’ve seen like it. Mostly via private message to avoid embarrassing them which seems to work.

I won't be letting it rip. Too many people have informed me to keep silent on that if I ever want to have a chance at remaining a resident of KC in the future or being able to have the chance to build something here in the future.

I will share this though. Over the past few days, I took the time to think the plans over and write a blog post about why I'm supportive of the stadium plan.
https://www.chrisstritzel.xyz/blog/thou ... ls-stadium