Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
Post Reply
bspecht
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:31 pm
Location: DC
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by bspecht »

I like how the "insider" is basing half of his takes on a rendering that he says came out a "few days ago" yet it actually came out in March as a "passion project" (zero connection to Royals or Populous): https://twitter.com/MammothBuilt/status ... 7658661896
User avatar
DaveKCMO
Ambassador
Posts: 20084
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DaveKCMO »

WoodDraw wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:38 pm If any of you have a modot person in your life, send them that rendering and then just mute the chat.

(I am signing off soon, it's a long walk to the river)
Totally. They haven’t even signed off on the lid.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

bspecht wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:36 am I like how the "insider" is basing half of his takes on a rendering that he says came out a "few days ago" yet it actually came out in March as a "passion project" (zero connection to Royals or Populous): https://twitter.com/MammothBuilt/status ... 7658661896
I’m not an “insider”. I’m just a person who is excited about this and happens to have some insight about what’s been happening behind the scenes. I also never said this rendering you’re referring to was new. I referenced it as it was shared again in the media a few days ago. It was put together by a company who is familiar with this style of construction.

And you can address me directly.
dnweava
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dnweava »

DColeKC wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:45 pm


The stretch of Oak this would close doesn’t seem highly utilized.
It's literally 1 of only 2 streets that cross downtown, connects south, and crosses the river. The other being Broadway.

It doesn't seem like it has much traffic because it is literally the most efficient street going through downtown. I guarantee it moves twice as much traffic as Main. If I'm going from the northland to the Crossroads, that is literally the way I take 100% of the time because it's 5X faster. If I'm going from downtown to midtown, I'm taking Oak/Gillam. Its far quicker than Broadway with all it's lights. Main is super slow with the streetcar now. While Grand is just as fast, but always closed. Oak is literally the most underrated street in the entire downtown area. I use it daily and I love it.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

dnweava wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:17 am
DColeKC wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:45 pm


The stretch of Oak this would close doesn’t seem highly utilized.
It's literally 1 of only 2 streets that cross downtown, connects south, and crosses the river. The other being Broadway.

It doesn't seem like it has much traffic because it is literally the most efficient street going through downtown. I guarantee it moves twice as much traffic as Main. If I'm going from the northland to the Crossroads, that is literally the way I take 100% of the time because it's 5X faster. If I'm going from downtown to midtown, I'm taking Oak/Gillam. Its far quicker than Broadway with all it's lights. Main is super slow with the streetcar now. While Grand is just as fast, but always closed. Oak is literally the most underrated street in the entire downtown area. I use it daily and I love it.
I understand. Like I said my input was very anecdotal and by no means scientific.

I’ve already said all I can but multiple physical location studies are being done and I’m sure a few don’t involve closing oak. With each location there’s negatives and complexities.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 34296
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

We're closing Walnut for a park, Cordish closes Grand multiple times a day, this plan closes oak. This would have major impact on streetcar performance.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:43 am We're closing Walnut for a park, Cordish closes Grand multiple times a day, this plan closes oak. This would have major impact on streetcar performance.
Agree somethings would have to change. Grand is closed by AEG as well for all events at the arena. Can’t have two closed permanently and one closed occasionally and expect no major issues.

I also think If this concept moves further down the process, you have to adjust the overall park design anyway.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 34296
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:08 am You'll hear a Kansas play very soon.
Hearing rumors of this today. Legends. At this point sounds like just a push from KCK to get into the convo.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:09 am
beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:08 am You'll hear a Kansas play very soon.
Hearing rumors of this today. Legends. At this point sounds like just a push from KCK to get into the convo.
No doubt Kansas will try or already has but it makes zero sense to help increase attendance which the main motivator for going downtown. Personally, I'd rank Kansas below staying at the K.
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7373
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

KCPowercat wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:09 am
beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:08 am You'll hear a Kansas play very soon.
Hearing rumors of this today. Legends. At this point sounds like just a push from KCK to get into the convo.
The waters are all muddy. Royals are trying to negotiate deal, but who wants to negotiate against themselves? So, bring in "possible other locations". The interesting thing is they might actually "negotiate" themselves out of the location they actually want with other parties interested to hear what the deal is Royals are balking at.
chingon
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3597
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by chingon »

Downtown KCK would be fine with me. Probably rank it higher than NKC, lower than the site where it belongs (18th/Vine) or the "east village" site, but it wouldn't bother me at all. Legends or south JoCo would be a historic and very Kansas City miss.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

I think (pure speculation) there are multiple factors in play.

EV - Progress wasn't happening. Pushback by the city and others concerned it could have a negative impact to other investments that the city relies on tax revenues to pay back bonds.

NKC - Dead

E. Crossroads - We've gone over the complications and there's no shortage of them but this site has power backing it on the city side compared to other options.

KCK - Like the Chiefs, might as well keep the possibility open for pure leverage but it's not a real possibility.

There is no clear easy path for them. Especially with the ignorant portion of the public who honestly think staying at the K is ideal and the best use of funds.

There should be major movement on this over the next 60 days one way or another.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 34296
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

Gotta be movement soon so they can get the vote on the ballot.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:00 am
WoodDraw wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:38 pm If any of you have a modot person in your life, send them that rendering and then just mute the chat.

(I am signing off soon, it's a long walk to the river)
Totally. They haven’t even signed off on the lid.
Has there been a single bit of indication they won't? I've not heard or read anything to show they're not in support but have seen enough to believe they're on board. Considering MoDot is ultimately ran by a panel appointed by the governor and he is a big supporter of the project, I see no serious hurdles outside of discovering some massive unseen structural problems.

I'm far more worried about the FAA than MoDot.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:55 am Gotta be movement soon so they can get the vote on the ballot.
I'd like all this to get going tomorrow but a part of me thinks maybe they should move the goalposts on this and not try and get this on the April ballot. The Chiefs will own the minds of KC residents until mid February (hopefully) and that leaves them a month to campaign for votes. Big hill to climb.

OR, put together a plan that shows how much fixing up Kauffman would cost from Taxpayers Vs a somewhat privately financed option downtown. It's easier to sell if you tell Taxpayers you need 1 billion to stay at the K or 500 million to build downtown. Granted, some typical cowtown folks would still fight it.
aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12684
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:00 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:55 am Gotta be movement soon so they can get the vote on the ballot.
I'd like all this to get going tomorrow but a part of me thinks maybe they should move the goalposts on this and not try and get this on the April ballot. The Chiefs will own the minds of KC residents until mid February (hopefully) and that leaves them a month to campaign for votes. Big hill to climb.

OR, put together a plan that shows how much fixing up Kauffman would cost from Taxpayers Vs a somewhat privately financed option downtown. It's easier to sell if you tell Taxpayers you need 1 billion to stay at the K or 500 million to build downtown. Granted, some typical cowtown folks would still fight it.
Sorry but I doubt that the taxpayers would be totally on the hook for $1B for a Kaufman rehab. Believe the taxpayers will be having the same amount of financial support not matter the choice in JaCo.
I would go back to the argument that if KCMO wants the stadium to be downtown let the whole city financially support it and not just the KCMO residents in JaCo. It will likely have an easier sell that way. Really no reason to keep the teams tied together if not playing at the same location. That is unless you believe the Royals be themselves cannot win support as a stand alone ballot issue.
dukuboy1
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:02 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by dukuboy1 »

honestly the whole process makes the Royals Ownership look like bumbling fools. They say good things, the right things, then go silent for months. Come back with some nonsense and now we are 2 steps back from where we were. Then the release some renderings and say good things, 1 step forward. Then they go and "look at options" but no one understands why or what some of the options are, 2 steps back.

This entire see-saw development event has been dragged out for a year now with deadlines missed, conflicting info, etc. It really seems like the lights are on but no one is home or they are at home but everyone is in their own rooms on their phones making tik toks and contradicting each other. Just a PR mess and the perception is Sherman is kind of a goof with no real ability to lead and push forth his vision.

The public wants to see a leader push forward and say this is what will happen, this is what it will cost, this is when it will be ready. They need to spend energy executing a plan & strategy, not trying to find more options. All it is doing is making it appear you cannot make a choice. I'd rather them make a decision and be told no & try again then to never try anything. Paralysis by analysis is in full effect now.
User avatar
DColeKC
Ambassador
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

dukuboy1 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:45 pm honestly the whole process makes the Royals Ownership look like bumbling fools. They say good things, the right things, then go silent for months. Come back with some nonsense and now we are 2 steps back from where we were. Then the release some renderings and say good things, 1 step forward. Then they go and "look at options" but no one understands why or what some of the options are, 2 steps back.

This entire see-saw development event has been dragged out for a year now with deadlines missed, conflicting info, etc. It really seems like the lights are on but no one is home or they are at home but everyone is in their own rooms on their phones making tik toks and contradicting each other. Just a PR mess and the perception is Sherman is kind of a goof with no real ability to lead and push forth his vision.

The public wants to see a leader push forward and say this is what will happen, this is what it will cost, this is when it will be ready. They need to spend energy executing a plan & strategy, not trying to find more options. All it is doing is making it appear you cannot make a choice. I'd rather them make a decision and be told no & try again then to never try anything. Paralysis by analysis is in full effect now.
This is the main reason Cordish got involved. They have a history of working with this city to get things done. They got involved with the convention hotel too behind the scenes when things were looking a mess. The were involved with the cap. Now they’re trying to help the royals accomplish downtown baseball.
User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2973
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by TheLastGentleman »

dukuboy1 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:45 pm honestly the whole process makes the Royals Ownership look like bumbling fools. They say good things, the right things, then go silent for months. Come back with some nonsense and now we are 2 steps back from where we were. Then the release some renderings and say good things, 1 step forward. Then they go and "look at options" but no one understands why or what some of the options are, 2 steps back.

This entire see-saw development event has been dragged out for a year now with deadlines missed, conflicting info, etc. It really seems like the lights are on but no one is home or they are at home but everyone is in their own rooms on their phones making tik toks and contradicting each other. Just a PR mess and the perception is Sherman is kind of a goof with no real ability to lead and push forth his vision.

The public wants to see a leader push forward and say this is what will happen, this is what it will cost, this is when it will be ready. They need to spend energy executing a plan & strategy, not trying to find more options. All it is doing is making it appear you cannot make a choice. I'd rather them make a decision and be told no & try again then to never try anything. Paralysis by analysis is in full effect now.
Amen
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 34296
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

It definitely doesn't look great. Sherman is a smart guy and been involved in other MLB teams so I think he has it together. I think their biggest failure was being too open and honest as they are going through the process to the public.
Post Reply