Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

His input is informed. Whether you like the message or not, it's good insight into what works and doesn't work. It may be a little biased at time but it's great to have connected people on this forum so it doesn't simply become a collection of unrealistic wish lists and negative rants.

100% agree. The forum is better with people who have some connection or are a directly involved in the development world.

KCDowntown

Agreed. Good addition to the site and obviously we've not always seen eye to eye.

I also don't think calling out someone talking out of both sides of their mouth is a "personal insult".

[grovester]

The progressive vote was never in any sizable majority going to vote for this.

I think this project excites the Jackson County suburbanites more than the East Village, which again, they had never heard of until 3 years ago (if not three months ago).

This entire urban progressive board was going to vote for it and now at best half would.

I think suburban JaCo voters don't want to subsidize billionaires and are happy with it at the K.

I’m seeing more yes votes on here then no votes. The no votes are understandable knowing the perspectives of those members. A few members are loyal crossroads supporters, residents and or business owners. I can respect their desire to keep crossroads untouched while also pointing out that the area is going to change regardless if this stadium happens.

I think the potential of a less expensive option that doesn’t need it’s own village and interacts much better with existing infrastructure is potentially more appealing to voters. The village so to speak already exists.

I can’t disagree that the handling of this by the royals has been less than stellar. I feel they could easily explain themselves if they want to peel back the curtain a bit. Things change when new people with the ability to get things done all sit down around a table.

My point being, it's a net negative in support compared to the EV plan. I think this would translate to most downtown dwellers, midtown, brookside, etc.

The Royals are coming up with new plans that alienate previously supportive people and don't bring any new supporters.

Anyone who knows the area realizes that the difference in distances is minimal and if they don't know the area any supposed advantage is lost on them.

It's a negotiating ploy.

[DMNBT_RCJH]

This entire urban progressive board was going to vote for it and now at best half would.

I think suburban JaCo voters don't want to subsidize billionaires and are happy with it at the K.

I’m seeing more yes votes on here then no votes. The no votes are understandable knowing the perspectives of those members. A few members are loyal crossroads supporters, residents and or business owners. I can respect their desire to keep crossroads untouched while also pointing out that the area is going to change regardless if this stadium happens.

I think the potential of a less expensive option that doesn’t need it’s own village and interacts much better with existing infrastructure is potentially more appealing to voters. The village so to speak already exists.

I can’t disagree that the handling of this by the royals has been less than stellar. I feel they could easily explain themselves if they want to peel back the curtain a bit. Things change when new people with the ability to get things done all sit down around a table.

My point being, it's a net negative in support compared to the EV plan. I think this would translate to most downtown dwellers, midtown, brookside, etc.

The Royals are coming up with new plans that alienate previously supportive people and don't bring any new supporters.

Anyone who knows the area realizes that the difference in distances is minimal and if they don't know the area any supposed advantage is lost on them.

It's a negotiating ploy.

Negotiating what? You think Blake Cordish is spending 6 hours of PJ time to help out other UHNW individuals negotiate with freaking Van Trust Realty?

[grovester]

I’m seeing more yes votes on here then no votes. The no votes are understandable knowing the perspectives of those members. A few members are loyal crossroads supporters, residents and or business owners. I can respect their desire to keep crossroads untouched while also pointing out that the area is going to change regardless if this stadium happens.

I think the potential of a less expensive option that doesn’t need it’s own village and interacts much better with existing infrastructure is potentially more appealing to voters. The village so to speak already exists.

I can’t disagree that the handling of this by the royals has been less than stellar. I feel they could easily explain themselves if they want to peel back the curtain a bit. Things change when new people with the ability to get things done all sit down around a table.

My point being, it's a net negative in support compared to the EV plan. I think this would translate to most downtown dwellers, midtown, brookside, etc.

The Royals are coming up with new plans that alienate previously supportive people and don't bring any new supporters.

Anyone who knows the area realizes that the difference in distances is minimal and if they don't know the area any supposed advantage is lost on them.

It's a negotiating ploy.

Negotiating what? You think Blake Cordish is spending 6 hours of PJ time to help out other UHNW individuals negotiate with freaking Van Trust Realty?

Blake Cordish has his own reasons for being involved, but the Royals are negotiating for something.

[DColeKC]

His input is informed. Whether you like the message or not, it's good insight into what works and doesn't work. It may be a little biased at time but it's great to have connected people on this forum so it doesn't simply become a collection of unrealistic wish lists and negative rants.

100% agree. The forum is better with people who have some connection or are a directly involved in the development world.

KCDowntown

Agreed. Good addition to the site and obviously we've not always seen eye to eye.

I also don't think calling out someone talking out of both sides of their mouth is a "personal insult".

I try to maintain transparency in my communication. While presenting factual information, I also share my own insights and speculation based on my knowledge and expertise. If anyone interprets my statements as contradictory, I encourage them to express their concerns, allowing me to provide clarification and address any misunderstandings. Unfortunately, instead of constructive feedback, I often encounter personal attacks implying a lack of knowledge. It perplexes me why some individuals choose to be harsh rather than seeking clarification. Phrases like "YOU. KNOW. NOTHING" and "This guy says he knows stuff" seem more like personal attacks than constructive criticism. I am going to try and clarify when I am speculating to avoid any confusion.

Furthermore, the few that like to use personal attacks don't bring anything of substance to the forum. It will be weeks in between their posts but something I say is enough for them to dust off the keyboard and chime in. Yet, once again, they offer no information, thoughts or productive input. It's just another insult.

[TheUrbanRoo]

They say that the period where DCole was off Rag for almost a year was worse than even the Dark Ages from centuries ago. Do not make him want to leave again. We can't go back.

[DMNBT_RCJH]

Blake Cordish has his own reasons for being involved, but the Royals are negotiating for something.

Of course, I never alluded to anything otherwise. Naturally, a closer ballpark to KCPL area is better for Cordish. I would also contend that it is better for the City, as we all know the City is covering the debt service stemming from the revenue shortfall out of the P&L District. While I will leave the economics to the economists, I would think that revenue shortfall gets slashed in half (if not all the way) with 80 games a year.

What I am saying. however, is that I don't suspect that these type of conversations and meetings occur if any party thinks the Royals are only using it as a negotiating ploy.

[KCPowercat]

P&L will see a huge bump with an EV location too. It's roughly .3 from the KC Star building corner to Guy's taco place. It's .4 from the corner where the stadium will start in EV. Not to mention either way garages like 11th and oak, 13th and grand will be heavily used by fans going to either location.

[DColeKC]

Blake Cordish has his own reasons for being involved, but the Royals are negotiating for something.

Of course, I never alluded to anything otherwise. Naturally, a closer ballpark to KCPL area is better for Cordish. I would also contend that it is better for the City, as we all know the City is covering the debt service stemming from the revenue shortfall out of the P&L District. While I will leave the economics to the economists, I would think that revenue shortfall gets slashed in half (if not all the way) with 80 games a year.

What I am saying. however, is that I don't suspect that these type of conversations and meetings occur if any party thinks the Royals are only using it as a negotiating ploy.

I can add without any speculation that Blake and the Cordish family is in this to get a downtown stadium done, even if that's East Village but of course they strongly prefer the star press site for the reasons you mention.

They have many active projects and working deals across the country. He would not be wasting his time helping the Royals only for them to have a negotiating tool that could mean a stadium across the state line.

You're 100% right on this.

[WoodDraw]

This thread is moving super quickly, and I can't keep up.

A couple points I'll make:

1) fuck closing oak
2) who controls land is super important for the health of the future development
3) be weary of ulterior motives in things that are leaked

[DColeKC]

P&L will see a huge bump with an EV location too. It's roughly .3 from the KC Star building corner to Guy's taco place. It's .4 from the corner where the stadium will start in EV. Not to mention either way garages like 11th and oak, 13th and grand will be heavily used by fans going to either location.

It's 800 feet and a direct sightline vs 2000 feet and a disconnected walk with an arena, government buildings and more in between the two. 5 Blocks vs 1. I'm not saying that it wouldn't drive additional traffic to PNL if it goes into East Village but not even close to the amount of traffic the crossroads site would drive. Also, factor in that the EV site would likely require and feature some bars-restaurants while the crossroads site wouldn't.

You and I have respectfully gone back and forth on this but I can tell you that the financial impact to PNL is vastly greater with the crossroads location.

[DColeKC]

This thread is moving super quickly, and I can't keep up.

A couple points I'll make:

1) fuck closing oak
2) who controls land is super important for the health of the future development
3) be weary of ulterior motives in things that are leaked

1. Oak doesn't seem heavily used form my personal perspective and is a 278' detour to hop over to Locust that inconvenient?
2. As mentioned before, if a stadium does not go here, other development will. The area we're talking about will not look the same in a decade.
3. Nothing leaked. A journalist reviewing the mayors schedule (public record), saw the meeting and put two and two together. There is no ulterior motive and if anything, this info going public was a negative for the progress being made on this site. These people don't waste time.

*This was all said with respect and sincerity.

[WoodDraw]

Everyone understands why cordish wants this, they own the Truman property. The other property owners are obvious as well.

It also neuters the idea to build a district in the east village.

There's nothing wrong with cordish fighting for own self interest, I'm just calling it out.


If we take the royals at their word (which I don't), and assume they want to invest, the EV makes the most sense where they have control of the property.

[DColeKC]

Everyone understands why cordish wants this, they own the Truman property. The other property owners are obvious as well.

It also neuters the idea to build a district in the east village.

There's nothing wrong with cordish fighting for own self interest, I'm just calling it out.


If we take the royals at their word (which I don't), and assume they want to invest, the EV makes the most sense where they have control of the property.

I don't think anyone is trying to get keep Cordish's motives or interest a secret. I know I'm not arguing that they're helping just for the sake of helping.

I think (don't know this for a fact) that the Royals have been beaten down a bit by the public and the process. This world of development is foreign to them. If they went into East Village and had to partner with Van Trust, they're not getting any true experience relative to this project. Working with Cordish means you get access to people who have done this exact thing in multiple cities. You get people who have negotiated with cities and tax payers all over the country and often are developing things that citizens and local government fight hard against, like Casinos. Cordish just brings value to the Royals that others can't bring. This value is worth giving up some control or developing a true partnership like Cordish has in St Louis with the Cardinals. A true 50/50 partnership.

[WoodDraw]

That would be interesting if cordish owned the land but they don't.

It's lucrative for them because of their current holdings.

The land in the ev is all banked and ready for investment. The land in the crossroads would require demolition of businesses with no promise of further development.

The royals said they want this to be billions of dollars in investment. There's no plausible path forward here?

[DColeKC]

That would be interesting if cordish owned the land but they don't.

It's lucrative for them because of their current holdings.

The land in the ev is all banked and ready for investment. The land in the crossroads would require demolition of businesses with no promise of further development.

The royals said they want this to be billions of dollars in investment. There's no plausible path forward here?

The current planned stadium location at this site doesn't require the demolition of any buildings that won't be developed. If you look at the rendering, you'll see they did a very solid job placing the stadium in a location that requires the least amount of existing structure to come down. You're dealing with a handful of existing owners at the crossroads site. In this location, you have far less commercial retail and mostly residential or office. Once again, something Cordish has experience building, maintaining and operating.

From what I DO know, EV isn't dead by any means but there were some details that were less than desirable.

Live I've said from day one when all of this started months ago. EV is the lay up and the easiest site to get developed because of the things you mention. That doesn't mean it's the best location and we're not talking about something that will get a do-over.

I've also said from the start. The most invested downtown developer literally has experience building sports anchored properties and even more specifically, baseball anchored properties. Why in the world would you try to build a baseball stadium downtown without attempting or considering working with them? If they're good enough for the Rangers, Phillys and Cardinals, aren't they good enough for the Royals? Yes, I'm the biggest Cordish fan on here but even with that removed, it just makes sense.

[WoodDraw]

There are so many complications.

KC starts competing against itself and you have a conflict of interest with cordish. They have lucrative subsidies (parking) that would make them highly unlikely to favor that area for redevelopment.

They also don't control the land around it, and the easiest way for the landowners to make money is to just turn everything into parking.

We can all see what cordish wants, they own incredibly lucrative property across what would be a new park and a new ballpark. They own two lots south of Truman along with power and light and the district.

They're also are a very conservative developer.

A little competition is good for everyone. I'm incredibly skeptical of this proposal.

[DColeKC]

There are so many complications.

KC starts competing against itself and you have a conflict of interest with cordish. They have lucrative subsidies (parking) that would make them highly unlikely to favor that area for redevelopment.

They also don't control the land around it, and the easiest way for the landowners to make money is to just turn everything into parking.

We can all see what cordish wants, they own incredibly lucrative property across what would be a new park and a new ballpark. They own two lots south of Truman along with power and light and the district.

They're also are a very conservative developer.

A little competition is good for everyone. I'm incredibly skeptical of this proposal.

Agree it's complicated.

But they don't turn things into parking lots, so that's a positive. They're also not shy about wanting to expand in this market and they're not tied to PNL which has been shown with the Truman properties plus what they're doing on the River Front. Parking may be profitable but it's nothing compared to residential or occupied office space.

I see your point about competition. And your point about them being conservative isn't false but I think that was also a bit skewed when the city botched the progress on the residential towers. We should be seeing 4 light coming out of the ground right now.

[aknowledgeableperson]

If you don't see how this location can help reduce the overall costs of the project, I can't help you.

I understand that the surrounding development costs are lower but what about the construction cost of the stadium by itself?

[WoodDraw]

Again though, they don't own properties outside of Truman and the district, as far as I know.

Let me anoint my self Joe bob cordish. I max out my parking under the development agreement, I build the two southern lots sharing parking across the street (there's a bridge!), have a park.

That's at least four or five residential buildings before you even think about expanding into the crossroads. Let's look at how long their affordable housing has taken.

The district is all backed by the city so there is no incentive to compete there with entertainment or housing.

So we have built a new stadium, knocked down a neighborhood, closed off the grid, and what did we get?

A stadium surrounded by parking lots and land cordish already owned