Is KC Tenants destroying the development future of downtown KCMO?

[FangKC]

I think one of the things I'm most pissed off about right now is the lack of compassion that is being shown on this forum lately. We have been through a pandemic that really hurt a lot of the most vulnerable people in our community. Out of desperation, they organized and tried to get someone to pay attention to how desperate they felt and how difficult their lives had become. Yes, they may have fucked up in their approach, but they are not skilled activists.

Yet, many of this board are more concerned about whether a luxury residential building might not get built than the fact that other humans are having a really hard time keeping a place to live, and have been through a prolonged shitfest that wasn't of their making.

I guess you should consider yourself privileged these concerns don't affect you in your daily life, and you can gang up and shit on the poorest citizens in our community.

None of you are immune from becoming homeless. I just saw an AI expert, The "Godfather of AI," Geoffrey Hinton, on 60 Minutes saying that AI might make many computer coders, engineers, and analysts completely redundant in the economy and throw them into unemployment very quickly. It's true for many professions, and yes that means high-skill professions.

I'm older than many of you. In my life, I've seen many professional people who made good livings thrown into poverty by economic upheaval, chronic illness, or unfortunate accidents. Not of you are immune from this.

You might consider showing a little compassion for other humans, and you need to put your egos in check and realize that the majority of Americans are a paycheck away from disaster.

63% of workers unable to pay a $500 emergency expense, survey finds

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/31/63perce ... urvey.html

58% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/11/58perce ... veals.html

[Chris Stritzel]

I think one of the things I'm most pissed off about right now is the lack of compassion that is being shown on this forum lately. We have been through a pandemic that really hurt a lot of the most vulnerable people in our community. Out of desperation, they organized and tried to get someone to pay attention to how desperate they felt and how difficult their lives had become. Yes, they may have fucked up in their approach, but they are not skilled activists.

That is true. The pandemic stirred the pot for a ton of people and hit many with hard realities. We can't, and shouldn't, deny that fact. I appreciate that KCTenants organized to help out tenants at risk of eviction at the time as a result of losing their job, having unplanned medical expenses, or forced to pay raised rent as a result of an apparent shift in living style during the pandemic. That is a noble cause as is holding slumlords accountable. I'll stand alongside anyone whose focus is defeating that. But KCTenants fucked up in their approach and overstepped their initial mission and that's where I have a problem with them. If they had better leaders in charge to speak for the activists, and were willing to sit down and discuss, then great. But that's not how they operate. If they want to have a thoughtful discussion to find common ground, I'm here for it but I know they aren't.

Yet, many of this board are more concerned about whether a luxury residential building might not get built than the fact that other humans are having a really hard time keeping a place to live, and have been through a prolonged shitfest that wasn't of their making.

I'm concerned with no new housing being built as a result of the microphone being given to NIMBYs and those who believe all new housing will kick all the poor people out. You need more housing at all price points to prevent this problem, but especially at the higher end. Supply and demand dictates that. If you have little to no supply of high-end apartments, guess who's going to move into the apartments that could otherwise be occupied by lower income folks? And guess what property owners will do as a result of increased demand?

I guess you should consider yourself privileged these concerns don't affect you in your daily life, and you can gang up and shit on the poorest citizens in our community.

I have compassion for the poor, vulnerable, and the homeless. I understand their financial situations and I wish it wasn't that way.

Who I don’t have any compassion for are the people who do not pay their rent or bills, but yet somehow have enough money to go out and buy fancy shoes, phones, purses, cars, and party like its going out of style even though those things aren't necessary to live. Priorities matter at all levels. I can show compassion towards others while also acknowledging that those who are ruining it for the most vulnerable in society. I'll do that every time I get the chance.

None of you are immune from becoming homeless. I just saw an AI expert, The "Godfather of AI," Geoffrey Hinton, on 60 Minutes saying that AI might make many computer coders, engineers, and analysts completely redundant in the economy and throw them into unemployment very quickly. It's true for many professions, and yes that means high-skill professions.

I'm older than many of you. In my life, I've seen many professional people who made good livings thrown into poverty by economic upheaval, chronic illness, or unfortunate accidents. Not of you are immune from this.

This is a good point. Technology is getting to the point where it'll replace many jobs. Just like when the jobs were sent overseas for cheap labor and gutted the Middle Class in this country, AI and computers will gut most all other jobs. We aren''t seeing the necessary regulation to prevent this. We must prevent this but no one seems to give a damn in Washington.

You might consider showing a little compassion for other humans, and you need to put your egos in check and realize that the majority of Americans are a paycheck away from disaster.

I don't come from a rich family or one that had considerable amounts of money stashed away. For most of my life, we scraped by. It was only during the pandemic that we switched our habits and began saving like no tomorrow. Now we have a bit of wiggle room, but inflation (created by rampant government spending) is eating away at our savings at a rapid pace. My ego stems from the fact that I know both sides of the story. I know the stress of not being able to pay bills, not knowing if we'd be able to eat, or if the power would be cut. I also know the joys of traveling, spending money on items that aren't necessary for survival, living in a relatively safe neighborhood, and having the ambition want to do better. Now I'm falling back into uncertainty thanks to the economic situation and the fact that close friends and family are at risk by terrorists in Israel.

We're quick to judge others, and I admit that I have (often openly). I've given KCTenants multiple chances to make their case and get back on track, but they go where the likes and reposts are. For them, I show no compassion or hope and that's by their own doing.

For the most vulnerable, and not those who claim to be vulnerable yet spend their paycheck on BS, I will present ideas that could become solutions any day of the week and at anytime if people ask. KCTenants won't do that. I want solutions grounded in reality and compassion. That's what I believe.

[Jblanco]

KCfang you have no shame dusty old false toothed repro.
I'm not talking about disabled or the poor in general. My comment was directed at the worthless leaches that work at KC Tenants who haven't done anything for the poor or disabled.

[Chris Stritzel]

KCfang you have no shame dusty old false toothed repro.
I'm not talking about disabled or the poor in general. My comment was directed at the worthless leaches that work at KC Tenants who haven't done anything for the poor or disabled.

This is the type of crap that's not needed on this forum. It adds nothing of substance to an already heated conversation and debate. We can have strong opinions on this issue, and post them accordingly (ideally with reasoning to back up feelings/opinions), but acting like an ass in this manner shouldn't be tolerated.

[phuqueue]

We need to be build more housing, not less. We need the market to flood with new residential units to meet demand in order to prevent rent from increasing.

But landlords don't want to prevent rent from increasing. The developers and landlords on this forum of all people should understand that your incentives are not aligned with the needs of housing activists. To argue that if you get what you want, it will solve housing activists' problems too is either a fantasy or a lie. If you do in fact "flood the market with new residential units," it will be because too many developers (and the banks providing their financing) miscalculated. Overbuilding happens by mistake, not by design. I would expect all of you distinguished economists to understand something so simple and obvious.

^^^^^^If this attitude is representative of developers, if you all are somehow quivering in your boots imagining the Specter of Communism in your midwestern midsized city, then I think it’ll be the Tenants that win this fight in the end. If you intend to rally the city behind The Real Estate Industry with this attitude, Godspeed to you, cause you will need it while you stumble around fighting your make-believe Red Menace

A bit of hyperbole there. KC Tenants need to stick to representing tenants and making life better for them. They absolutely do not understand supply and demand (or maybe they do and just do not care) because their opposition to apartment incentivized projects drives up the cost of rentals in KC. As CrossroadsUrbanApts said a couple of pages back, the commercial risk is such that it's likely that nothing gets built in urban KC without incentives.

Maybe nothing gets built by for-profit developers without incentives, but that's exactly why the KCT platform includes social housing. And all of you are entitled to your own opinions, of course, if you don't like social housing then don't like social housing, but I think it is important to acknowledge that your disagreements with KCT are fundamentally rooted in ideology, not in inviolable physical laws of the universe that this forum understands perfectly well but KCT doesn't. You don't get to engage in silly red-baiting in one breath and then with the next one argue that actually you are just offering a neutral appraisal of the incontrovertible facts.

I have compassion for the poor, vulnerable, and the homeless. I understand their financial situations and I wish it wasn't that way.

Who I don’t have any compassion for are the people who do not pay their rent or bills, but yet somehow have enough money to go out and buy fancy shoes, phones, purses, cars, and party like its going out of style even though those things aren't necessary to live. Priorities matter at all levels. I can show compassion towards others while also acknowledging that those who are ruining it for the most vulnerable in society. I'll do that every time I get the chance.

***

those who claim to be vulnerable yet spend their paycheck on BS

If you were asked to (obviously, this is a public forum, so I won't ask you to), could you actually name specific people who skip rent but buy a bunch of other fancy shit instead? Like if you and I were real-life friends and you were telling me about a mutual acquaintance, you could tell me "hey, you know Tom? Yeah he hasn't paid rent in eight months, but he bought a brand new Mercedes the other week," and it would be true? I could go to Tom and verify this? And you actually know so many Toms that it is important to account for them when forming opinions about broad social problems? Or are we just talking about the 21st century equivalent of Reagan's fabled (and fake) welfare queen?

I can't really speak to things like fancy shoes or purses, but before you go complaining about the liars who claim to be poor but have "fancy phones," I think it is worth keeping in mind that smart phones are cheap as shit and phone and internet are basically both essential to finding and keeping a job nowadays, so maybe hold up on declaring that people with "fancy phones" deserve to be homeless. As for the rest, and to the extent that any specific person actually even exists in the first place and it's not just a figment of your imagination, I would only caution that you probably have far less insight into another person's circumstances than you think you do.

[im2kull]

KCT refuses to help out tenants who are in higher income brackets. Another example of why they're disgusting and nothing more than a mouthpiece for the socialist movement.

[Chris Stritzel]

I’m not going to waste my time reading a post from, or be lectured by, someone whose username is literally “fuck you”.

[Highlander]

^^^^^^If this attitude is representative of developers, if you all are somehow quivering in your boots imagining the Specter of Communism in your midwestern midsized city, then I think it’ll be the Tenants that win this fight in the end. If you intend to rally the city behind The Real Estate Industry with this attitude, Godspeed to you, cause you will need it while you stumble around fighting your make-believe Red Menace

A bit of hyperbole there. KC Tenants need to stick to representing tenants and making life better for them. They absolutely do not understand supply and demand (or maybe they do and just do not care) because their opposition to apartment incentivized projects drives up the cost of rentals in KC. As CrossroadsUrbanApts said a couple of pages back, the commercial risk is such that it's likely that nothing gets built in urban KC without incentives.

Maybe nothing gets built by for-profit developers without incentives, but that's exactly why the KCT platform includes social housing. And all of you are entitled to your own opinions, of course, if you don't like social housing then don't like social housing, but I think it is important to acknowledge that your disagreements with KCT are fundamentally rooted in ideology, not in inviolable physical laws of the universe that this forum understands perfectly well but KCT doesn't. You don't get to engage in silly red-baiting in one breath and then with the next one argue that actually you are just offering a neutral appraisal of the incontrovertible facts.

Where's the red baiting?

By limiting the number of apartments built, whether luxury or affordable, supply is being limited putting pressure on price.

Social housing is an entirely different subject . Nobody has said anything about that in this thread

[alejandro46]

I just think we should build more housing.

[phuqueue]

I’m not going to waste my time reading a post from, or be lectured by, someone whose username is literally “fuck you”.

A bit of hyperbole there. KC Tenants need to stick to representing tenants and making life better for them. They absolutely do not understand supply and demand (or maybe they do and just do not care) because their opposition to apartment incentivized projects drives up the cost of rentals in KC. As CrossroadsUrbanApts said a couple of pages back, the commercial risk is such that it's likely that nothing gets built in urban KC without incentives.

Maybe nothing gets built by for-profit developers without incentives, but that's exactly why the KCT platform includes social housing. And all of you are entitled to your own opinions, of course, if you don't like social housing then don't like social housing, but I think it is important to acknowledge that your disagreements with KCT are fundamentally rooted in ideology, not in inviolable physical laws of the universe that this forum understands perfectly well but KCT doesn't. You don't get to engage in silly red-baiting in one breath and then with the next one argue that actually you are just offering a neutral appraisal of the incontrovertible facts.

Where's the red baiting?

By limiting the number of apartments built, whether luxury or affordable, supply is being limited putting pressure on price.

Social housing is an entirely different subject . Nobody has said anything about that in this thread

Sorry, I quoted your post to respond to the "nothing gets built in KC without incentives" part, but otherwise, I was just speaking about a general "you," not necessarily you, Highlander, specifically, and I should have been clearer about that. Since TLG responded to Chris, and you responded to TLG, I treated my post as if I was speaking to both of you (and any others like-minded), but I understand how it is confusing or seems as if I'm imputing things to you that you didn't say if I'm actually responding to Chris where I've quoted you. The red-baiting was in Chris's post, not yours, but it is what TLG was responding to in his post that you had quoted, so in my mind it all kinda went together regardless of who specifically said what. In response to your point that KCT's tactics "drive up the cost of rentals," though, the fact that their platform includes social housing is 100% relevant, whether anybody has talked about it or not (but somebody has talked about it -- Chris complained about it in his post, including -- but not only -- in his red baiting paragraph).

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I just think we should build more housing.

*angry screeching from every angle*

[Chris Stritzel]

I’m not going to waste my time reading a post from, or be lectured by, someone whose username is literally “fuck you”.

Roll your eyes all you want, you know exactly what you're doing. I commend you for clearly having a burner account to remain anonymous in order to stir the pot on multiple occasions and in multiple threads. An act of cowardice to do such a thing whereas I do it and everyone knows who does it because I have nothing to hide. Laugh at my "red scare" all you want, but the truth is clear and the red roses of Twitter make it clear. Don't believe me? Then there's no sense in reasoning with someone as dense as you.

The truth could look you directly in the eye, and you'd turn away because it's not what you believe. I have the ability to see both sides of the story and deduce what the reality is from there. You have not demonstrated that ability.

[phuqueue]

You got me. I am actually DCole's sockpuppet.

[grovester]

I’m not going to waste my time reading a post from, or be lectured by, someone whose username is literally “fuck you”.

Roll your eyes all you want, you know exactly what you're doing. I commend you for clearly having a burner account to remain anonymous in order to stir the pot on multiple occasions and in multiple threads. An act of cowardice to do such a thing whereas I do it and everyone knows who does it because I have nothing to hide. Laugh at my "red scare" all you want, but the truth is clear and the red roses of Twitter make it clear. Don't believe me? Then there's no sense in reasoning with someone as dense as you.

The truth could look you directly in the eye, and you'd turn away because it's not what you believe. I have the ability to see both sides of the story and deduce what the reality is from there. You have not demonstrated that ability.

JFC dude, step away from the keyboard!

[Chris Stritzel]

JFC dude, step away from the keyboard!

I’ll step away from this thread (for now). You’re direct and keep it short and sweet. Much appreciated.

[Sirius_Blue]

"What they are is angry, and anger often drives people to behave irrationally and with a punitive intent."

I don't agree with everything you said, Fang, but this is exactly why I'm extremely wary of KCT. They've gotten the most press from their more outlandish outbursts, so they double down on that rhetoric and get more clicks/traffic/"engagement"/whatever. Seems like they've lost their own plot.

[Sirius_Blue]

KCfang you have no shame dusty old false toothed repro.
I'm not talking about disabled or the poor in general. My comment was directed at the worthless leaches that work at KC Tenants who haven't done anything for the poor or disabled.

Get this horseshit out of here. No need for personal attacks.

[Sirius_Blue]

I just think we should build more housing.

*angry screeching from every angle*

Reddit's poisoning of actual "centrist" attitudes is a pox upon our society.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

"What they are is angry, and anger often drives people to behave irrationally and with a punitive intent."

I don't agree with everything you said, Fang, but this is exactly why I'm extremely wary of KCT. They've gotten the most press from their more outlandish outbursts, so they double down on that rhetoric and get more clicks/traffic/"engagement"/whatever. Seems like they've lost their own plot.

This is the crux of the issue, and one that I think is repeatedly lost when we engage in discourse here. I haven’t met a single person who disagrees with KCT in their mission to protect tenants from wrongful eviction, substandard living conditions, or predatory landlords.

The issue any of us ever have is when they have signs at a council hearing for a project that’ll infill a parking lot on a high frequency transit line, with signs saying “we won’t subsidize our own displacement”, while their very actions are actually expediting the displacement they so vehemently oppose. The genie has been released from the lamp, Kansas City is on the map, it’s becoming a destination for relocations, and we’re expanding things like transit connections through a historically poorer and less economically well off area in recent history. Without new construction, even if subsidized by abatements or other incentives, the displacement is going to be quicker, and have significantly less regard for the lowest on the economic ladder.

Without a paradigm shift in even regional economic conditions, that would require a buy-in at a regional governance level, things like social housing, rent control, subsidies, or any number of quasi socialist programs simply won’t come anywhere close to solving housing insecurity.

[Highlander]

"What they are is angry, and anger often drives people to behave irrationally and with a punitive intent."

I don't agree with everything you said, Fang, but this is exactly why I'm extremely wary of KCT. They've gotten the most press from their more outlandish outbursts, so they double down on that rhetoric and get more clicks/traffic/"engagement"/whatever. Seems like they've lost their own plot.

This is the crux of the issue, and one that I think is repeatedly lost when we engage in discourse here. I haven’t met a single person who disagrees with KCT in their mission to protect tenants from wrongful eviction, substandard living conditions, or predatory landlords.

The issue any of us ever have is when they have signs at a council hearing for a project that’ll infill a parking lot on a high frequency transit line, with signs saying “we won’t subsidize our own displacement”, while their very actions are actually expediting the displacement they so vehemently oppose. The genie has been released from the lamp, Kansas City is on the map, it’s becoming a destination for relocations, and we’re expanding things like transit connections through a historically poorer and less economically well off area in recent history. Without new construction, even if subsidized by abatements or other incentives, the displacement is going to be quicker, and have significantly less regard for the lowest on the economic ladder.

Without a paradigm shift in even regional economic conditions, that would require a buy-in at a regional governance level, things like social housing, rent control, subsidies, or any number of quasi socialist programs simply won’t come anywhere close to solving housing insecurity.

Then we need to ask ourselves why now has housing become unaffordable. I rented apartments in the 1980's comfortably with my earnings from being a waiter an could also afford a car, college tuition and annual ski trips. I have my own ideas and most of them go back to 2009 when the supply of money dried up and getting loans became much more difficult. That hurt the SFH market demand with the lack of supply gradually pushing prices up and a lot of would-be home buyers into apartments. The relatively recent urban living trend has put much higher demand on housing in the city where historically (since the 70's at least) little had been created and the area was pretty limited to a few niche developments surrounded by lower middle class to poor housing. And short term rentals absolutely do not help the situation.