Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:36 amThe Country Club Plaza is in trouble. How can Kansas City fix it? Take our survey | Opinion
...
So if the action really is moving elsewhere and the Country Club Plaza is at the brink, what can pull it back? It’s a given that its face today is radically different from the district that opened for business 100 years ago. Its Spanish-influenced architecture, central location and historical pedigree continue to make it a touchstone destination — for now. But what changes need to happen to keep people coming back? The Plaza is too important to wither away. Take our reader survey here. We’ll summarize your best suggestions for the center’s owners and tenants, and our city leaders.
...
FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:36 amThe Country Club Plaza is in trouble. How can Kansas City fix it? Take our survey | Opinion
...
So if the action really is moving elsewhere and the Country Club Plaza is at the brink, what can pull it back? It’s a given that its face today is radically different from the district that opened for business 100 years ago. Its Spanish-influenced architecture, central location and historical pedigree continue to make it a touchstone destination — for now. But what changes need to happen to keep people coming back? The Plaza is too important to wither away. Take our reader survey here. We’ll summarize your best suggestions for the center’s owners and tenants, and our city leaders.
...
100 pages ago I remember saying The Plaza was in trouble and getting lambasted for overreacting.
Not crazy about the way that survey is worded: "biggest issue". The Plaza's issues result from a number of interwoven variables all somewhat impacting each other. It will be interesting when the Star publishes the results. No doubt Crime will be cited as the major issue.
While the Plaza may be in trouble, I cannot see it ever going the way of The Landing and other once popular urban centers. There's just too much higher end residential in close proximity and that's increasing rather than decreasing. There will be changes for certain but it will bounce back in some form even if it's more residential/office and less retail.
It is ironic that the surrounding district is thriving and the core shopping district has problems. In the past quarter century the residential area north of the Plaza went from affordable store clerk and waitstaff housing to high end, and look at all that is in the pipeline. The little retail strip on Main south of Brush Creek is also thriving. If percentage can be given, how much of the CCP woes is due to brick and mortar retail in general, how much due to current ownership ineptness, and how much due to the current physical design of the CCP?
moderne wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 1:16 pm
It is ironic that the surrounding district is thriving and the core shopping district has problems. In the past quarter century the residential area north of the Plaza went from affordable store clerk and waitstaff housing to high end, and look at all that is in the pipeline. The little retail strip on Main south of Brush Creek is also thriving. If percentage can be given, how much of the CCP woes is due to brick and mortar retail in general, how much due to current ownership ineptness, and how much due to the current physical design of the CCP?
I wouldn't even say it's the ineptness of the ownership, per se, but rather the ownership's cost basis (though one could make the argument that buying the Plaza for $660MM post-retail realignment doesn't exactly scream "we know what we're doing").
If new owners were able to re-set the Plaza's cost basis through an REO purchase (or via a negotiated deed-in-lieu of foreclosure, or a variation thereof), their options to kick-start the renewal of the Plaza are considerably more feasible. It's a lot easier to work with a local tenant (which the public is focused on), a targeted entertainment user (e.g. a movie theater to push foot traffic), or a community amenity (like a smaller convenience store / bodega-type tenant to service local residents) in terms of base rent and TI when the ownership isn't trying to solve for a rental rate that appropriately covers debt service on more than $300MM in debt.
The physical design is dated, for sure, but there are some very workable ideas that could be practically pulled off, assuming engaged ownership, city involvement, and some amount of chill from the Plaza NIMBY coalition.
The Plaza was incredible last night during the first evening of the Plaza Arts Fair. I was impressed by the very large crowd. Just seems like such a no brainer to shut down JC Nichols to pedestrian traffic only. Not sure shutting down Wornall is necessary as it puts a lot of traffic on the north-south streets that feed would feed into 47th without traffic lights.
The problems with retail on the Plaza are not as noticeable as I thought they'd be. Outside of the obvious Nordstrom tear down and theater closure fiasco and the first few storefronts on Nichols east of Pennsylvania, the place seemed pretty healthy (of course it helped to have a crowd that had to be upwards of 25,000 strolling around).
One thing I'd really like to see on the Plaza is an enforcement of pedestrian crosswalk rules. Crossing 47th anywhere other than Wornall is a crap shoot. One car stopped for us at the crosswalk across from Made in KC but the guy in the next lane went flying through the intersection nearly hitting my wife. There needs to be signage about pedestrian right-away and enforcement of the rules.
One has to wonder if the art fair lights a temporary spark behind the 'close Nichols' idea. I went last night too and it was thinking about...such a no-brainer. Who would even be against it logically?
Idk if UrbanLab did their presentation just before the Plaza art fair on purpose, but that was good timing.
I seem to remember an idea to keep the roads closed a little longer for a case study in how it could actually look/function after the Art Fair. No idea if that ever got traction.
I think Nicholas is going to need a greater focus on food and beverage to do well as a ped street. Otherwise retail closes earlier in the day and Nichols Ped way will be dead by 8pm.
langosta wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:10 am
I think Nicholas is going to need a greater focus on food and beverage to do well as a ped street. Otherwise retail closes earlier in the day and Nichols Ped way will be dead by 8pm.
That is the one chink in the close Nichols Road argument, the plaza's restaurants are not located on the street where they would be able to offer expanded outdoor seating and create a later night vibe. Tuscan Brio is the only restaurant on Nichols Road. But not all the restaurants need to be on Nichols Road, just a few and given retail's volatile future, there already is and will be continue to be space for them.
Plaza should be pivoting toward a restaurant district anyway. A grown-up version of Westport. People will still get out for dinner. Retail will get the glow off that foot traffic.
shinatoo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:45 am
Plaza should be pivoting toward a restaurant district anyway. A grown-up version of Westport. People will still get out for dinner. Retail will get the glow off that foot traffic.
2 theaters bookending the district with things like the mini-put bar would also be key. The old theater on the east edge still needs to come back as a small scale concert venue/stage acts (comedy shows and the sort) to help drive demand on weekend evenings outside of exclusively restaurants.
shinatoo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:45 am
Plaza should be pivoting toward a restaurant district anyway. A grown-up version of Westport. People will still get out for dinner. Retail will get the glow off that foot traffic.
2 theaters bookending the district with things like the mini-put bar would also be key. The old theater on the east edge still needs to come back as a small scale concert venue/stage acts (comedy shows and the sort) to help drive demand on weekend evenings outside of exclusively restaurants.
Top Dallas Retail Operator Wants to Buy Country Club Plaza
A Texas firm that owns the luxury Highland Park Village shopping center in Dallas has a tentative agreement to acquire the Country Club Plaza, according to local real estate sources.
Ray Washburne and HP Village Partners, an entity with family ties to the wealthy Hunt Family, is the prospective new owner of the Plaza. The firm has a stellar reputation in Dallas as a retail operator, the sources said.
...
HP Village Partners interest in the Plaza appears to be a striking match. Highland Park Village opened in 1931 and like the Plaza, which opened in 1923, was designed architecturally in a Mediterranean, Spanish-style.
...
Since then, the new owners have invested substantially in the property and attracted many luxury retailers, some unique to Texas, according to reports in the Dallas press.
...
Washburne’s wife, Heather Hill, is a descendent of legendary Texas oil magnate H.L. Hunt, the father of Kansas City Chiefs founder Lamar Hunt. She, along with Stephen Summers and Elisa Summers make up HP Village Partners, according to Dallas press reports.
“This is a high-end developer with generational wealth,” a source said. “They won’t be putting lipstick on the Plaza and kicking it out to the next buyer.”
...
If all goes well, the purchase could be finalized by the end of the year, sources say.
...
If true, this is good news. The management team has done a good job with Highland Park Village and if anything it is very close in aesthetics with the Plaza.
LCDSI wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:06 am
If true, this is good news. The management team has done a good job with Highland Park Village and if anything it is very close in aesthetics with the Plaza.
Cratedigger and I had both discussed this a while back, but the inspiration for Highland Park Village was at least partially TCCP
