KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

[langosta]

Truly incredible how every other city but us is able to get a TATL flight

There are a lot of other cities that don't have TATL service. Unless our business community puts a pledge of monies together or fuels business class airfares from KC, we may not get anything substantial.

As for reputable "sources" from Airliners or Twitter Air accounts, bahhhh

Source is now the Condor.com website route map with San Antonio as a condor served city.

[herrfrank]

This is going WAY back, but I think we had nonstop service to Mexico City in the 1970s via Braniff. The only schedule I could find online was from 1979, at which time BI served MCI nonstop from OMA, MSP, DSM, SEA, SAT, DFW, HOU, TUL, OKC, ICT, MSY, ATL, DCA, PHL, LGA, and BOS. Actually a substantial mini-hub. But I remember earlier a push from KC into Mexico proper.

They had by far the most colorful part of the airport -- lots of banners and bright costumes. Long time ago.

[hartliss]

SAT business community really came together unlike here: https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local ... 304550.php

No one I know in the business community has ever been brought a proposal to donate to. If there was someone leading this initiative, the money would be there. There’s just zero leadership for it and no one thinks it’s their responsibility.

Seems like a chamber of commerce type initiative? I honestly am not sure ..

[hartliss]

Truly incredible how every other city but us is able to get a TATL flight

There are a lot of other cities that don't have TATL service. Unless our business community puts a pledge of monies together or fuels business class airfares from KC, we may not get anything substantial.

As for reputable "sources" from Airliners or Twitter Air accounts, bahhhh

This. Business community needs to step in.

[herrfrank]

^What interest does the KC business community have internationally? H&R Block and Hallmark are strictly domestic companies. So are the Kemper banks and the utilities. Same with Cerner and BATS or whatever it's called these days.

KCS of course now has North American interests, so perhaps a nonstop to Calgary would be in order.

[STLguy1]

Speaking of Canadian Flights,

STL just landed nonstop daily service on Air Canada beginning next year. They already serve Toronto. This is an interesting add and STL must show enough O&D to Montreal to add a daily flight.

[smh]

^What interest does the KC business community have internationally? H&R Block and Hallmark are strictly domestic companies. So are the Kemper banks and the utilities. Same with Cerner and BATS or whatever it's called these days.

KCS of course now has North American interests, so perhaps a nonstop to Calgary would be in order.

Hallmark has pretty substantial business in Europe and Asia. I'm not sure what the retail market is like in Asia for them, but they did a lot of manufacturing there (though I think they are in the process of onshoring a lot/all of that).

But the overall point is well taken--are there substantial businesses in KC that need international travel? Maybe Garmin?

[hartliss]

^What interest does the KC business community have internationally? H&R Block and Hallmark are strictly domestic companies. So are the Kemper banks and the utilities. Same with Cerner and BATS or whatever it's called these days.

KCS of course now has North American interests, so perhaps a nonstop to Calgary would be in order.

Hallmark has pretty substantial business in Europe and Asia. I'm not sure what the retail market is like in Asia for them, but they did a lot of manufacturing there (though I think they are in the process of onshoring a lot/all of that).

But the overall point is well taken--are there substantial businesses in KC that need international travel? Maybe Garmin?

This is a great question...again I would hope the chamber of commerce has some type of data on this. As others have pointed out, those companies that had int'l travel requirements aren't around any longer or have had their footprint all but eliminated.

I guess by the fact that there hasn't been a business coalition led initiative to pool together money is all we need to know about int'l travel needs in KC.

[Chris Stritzel]

Hot take: I think Condor's striped airplanes look odd. Never even heard of them till May last year when they were launching an (apparent) inaugural flight from Boston (I was in the terminal at the time). Thought they were a newer airline. I rather have KC get a legacy name than Condor. It carries more weight (like Lufthansa in St. Louis).

And let this hype be a reminder that not all Twitter users have solid sources on these sorts of things. I'll wait to celebrate until Justin Meyer says something.

The hype train gets people excited and when it doesn't stop at the desired station, everyone gets pissed. Patience. It took St. Louis years to get a TATL service again. It'll take KC some time to get its own as well. To me, it's all about identifying potentially overlooked destinations from the heartland. Where are our neighbors and friends flying to from KC? How often? Would they be willing to go direct? These are a few things that help guide the direction.

[STLguy1]

Hot take: I think Condor's striped airplanes look odd. Never even heard of them till May last year when they were launching an (apparent) inaugural flight from Boston (I was in the terminal at the time). Thought they were a newer airline. I rather have KC get a legacy name than Condor. It carries more weight (like Lufthansa in St. Louis).

And let this hype be a reminder that not all Twitter users have solid sources on these sorts of things. I'll wait to celebrate until Justin Meyer says something.

The hype train gets people excited and when it doesn't stop at the desired station, everyone gets pissed. Patience. It took St. Louis years to get a TATL service again. It'll take KC some time to get its own as well. To me, it's all about identifying potentially overlooked destinations from the heartland. Where are our neighbors and friends flying to from KC? How often? Would they be willing to go direct? These are a few things that help guide the direction.

Point blank... well said. My sentiments exactly.

We also need the business community. I read that Bayer in STL is filling some 100 seats each month on the LH flights in addition to how many other countless corporations.

We got Iceland and that was great while it lasted, however it was definitely a leisure driven flight.

Right now, it has been said, over and over, by airline analysis and the airlines themselves, they want the business class full or at least a large percentage of it full for TATL service (especially on the widebodies a330-300 in STL and the B787 in Austin). Coach class is their slush fund in reality. Without that business commitment and/or seat projection, it doesn't look good IMO to land a legacy large plane here yet (even 3 x weekly). Iceland saw good numbers out of the barn at first, but lagged later. The EU connections through Reykjavik (horrible airport too) were not good timing for biz and/or simply longer than flying from a connection airport in the states to EU.

[STLguy1]

From San Antonio - info on the Condor Flight just announced...
(some good highlights of what San Antonio is getting and how they got it).

The nonstop flight to Frankfurt, Germany, will launch on May 17, 2024, with its initial season running through Sept. 6, 2024. The seasonal flight would operate three times a week on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

Condor’s air service to Frankfurt in 2024 is locked in, but the following year could remain the same or bring changes to the flight schedule depending on how next year goes, Saenz said.

But, “this took six years,” he added.

Frankfurt has the highest number of passenger demand going into Europe from San Antonio, he said. In 2022, about 300 passengers per day traveled to and from SAT and Europe.

San Antonio is also Frankfurt’s largest unserved U.S. market, Brian Pratte, chief air service development administrator, said at the time those findings were released.

While the new Frankfurt flight is intended to serve an untapped leisure travel market, it’s also viewed as critical to serving and expanding San Antonio’s trade and development growth.

“These new flights obviously will help us open up some pathways to particular industries that are strong on both sides, including advanced manufacturing and cybersecurity,” Nirenberg said.

Visit San Antonio President and CEO Marc Anderson said the flight goes both ways and will contribute to the region’s tourism market. Prior to the pandemic, about 15,000 people visited San Antonio from Germany every year.

A two-year air service agreement between Condor and the City of San Antonio includes an incentive package worth almost $1.3 million in airport use fee waivers and marketing support.

SAT’s air service incentive program is used to attract and support carriers that provide nonstop service to certain target markets for 12 to 24 consecutive months, or seasonal service for three months. Through the Air Service Development Fund from Greater:SATX and Visit San Antonio, the airline also could receive a financial rebate if seats go unsold.

https://sanantonioreport.org/san-antoni ... stination/

[beautyfromashes]

^^ I just don’t understand the pass that you all seem to keep giving your “Twitter friends” who are supposed to be marketing our new shiny airport. We’re getting passed left and right and everyone is making excuses. It’s what drives me crazy about this cities past, we have always made excuses why something that should be happening isn’t. Blamed business leaders or politics or whatever. Our airport catchment area is 5 million people! We have a brand new airport! The state has given funds to attract a Europe nonstop more than the $1.5M San Antonio had to give. Klein obviously should have been gone way before he was. Totally inept. But, when we’re one of the last standing without a flight, it’s time to get truthful that this is a leadership issue.

[dev49]

^^ I just don’t understand the pass that you all seem to keep giving your “Twitter friends” who are supposed to be marketing our new shiny airport. We’re getting passed left and right and everyone is making excuses. It’s what drives me crazy about this cities past, we have always made excuses why something that should be happening isn’t. Blamed business leaders or politics or whatever. Our airport catchment area is 5 million people! We have a brand new airport! The state has given funds to attract a Europe nonstop more than the $1.5M San Antonio had to give. Klein obviously should have been gone way before he was. Totally inept. But, when we’re one of the last standing without a flight, it’s time to get truthful that this is a leadership issue.

I would be curious if we were even entertaining 3x a week for 4 month thing a year thing like San Antonio got. I’d guess we aren’t, but maybe we should be. I’d rather start with that to get something in here and hope we support it so it expands than keep waiting on a year round flight to show up. Condor has a pretty good product even if it isn’t as big a name as others.

[Chris Stritzel]

I'm not denying that leadership has been absent on this front, but we also need to realize that anonymous social media users saying things doesn't make things true either. We could have an even better terminal and more incentives to throw at airlines, and we'd likely still be in this same situation. Cities all around are getting big flights because they've been working on it longer than we have (San Antonio apparently worked on the seasonal Condor flight for 6 years before it yielded anything).

I guarantee that if Justin Meyer and Co. could wave a wand and have a TATL flight tomorrow, and several others on their way, they would, but that's not how business works. Data, that we don't have access to, paints a very clear picture on this whole thing. What we know is what's been said before. Politics and bureaucracy has to work with the business aspect of things, which is monitoring how many people start out at MCI and end up internationally. Then you have to go from there and work through the gears of bureaucracy to start yielding outcomes that many people want. It's not as fast as we'd like and leadership changes can help expedite the process, but not by much.

It's for certain that Airport folks have been in contact, and in several meetings, with airlines about TATL service. Some conversations have surely been productive while others faded away. Without any knowledge of these meetings, I have a feeling that our TATL will be on a US-based airline. A ton of other cities are snagging up international airlines, but why can't we just have a US-based one? American, United and Delta are all solid, pursue one of them. And if you're one of these airlines, you easily have access to data from passengers originating at MCI and going International to the point where you can make a call on what destination to end up at.

Lastly, aviation geeks can hype up the new Airport all day, every day and they should. But it's not their responsibility to market the airport, via social media, to airlines in the hopes one of them bites. That's leadership's responsibility, which brings me back into a circular talking point.

Our time will come. Please be patient. Progress isn't instant.

[dev49]

Without any knowledge of these meetings, I have a feeling that our TATL will be on a US-based airline. A ton of other cities are snagging up international airlines, but why can't we just have a US-based one? American, United and Delta are all solid, pursue one of them. And if you're one of these airlines, you easily have access to data from passengers originating at MCI and going International to the point where you can make a call on what destination to end up at.

I’m not sure I could tell you the last time AA or United started a route to Europe from a non hub/focus city. Delta is the only one that does and it isn’t often. IND and PIT both flamed out for Delta.

It really only is an international airline thing to fly to mid sized US cities, so that’s why the focus is on them.

[beautyfromashes]

Our time will come. Please be patient. Progress isn't instant.

We knew the new airport was going to be in place 5 years ago! Are you saying we weren't meeting and talking to players about a nonstop at least at that point and not before? What have we been doing!?!

[STLguy1]

I'll say it again, new shiny airports do not warrant new air service or increased air destinations. Doesn't work that way. The whole "build it and new service will come" is a wonderful selling point by promoters and politicians.

As for MCI being a 5 million catch all area, not sure where that info is based off of.

As many have pointed out, KC lacks business / corporate support (at this point).

[beautyfromashes]

As for MCI being a 5 million catch all area, not sure where that info is based off of.

https://mediaassets.kshb.com/NWT/Sam/MC ... 0Nebraska.

[beautyfromashes]

I'll say it again, new shiny airports do not warrant new air service or increased air destinations. Doesn't work that way. The whole "build it and new service will come" is a wonderful selling point by promoters and politicians.

You’re wrong. Rapidly increasing traffic out of said new shiny airport absolutely does promote new air destinations and we’re are seeing that growth currently.

[STLguy1]

We are? I see a lot of cuts lately.

The new shiny airport has a better passenger experience 100%
The new shiny airport is positioned with better gates and connectivity.
But was it really a new shiny airport? Coming off Covid, most airports in the USA are experiencing huge passenger numbers and growth. Look at the 2019 numbers and compare it to today's numbers. But we are still down or even with a new shiny airport.

2019 total passengers YTD through July: 6,897,478 total pax
2023 total passengers YTD through July: 6,597,369 total pax

https://flykc.com/traffic-statistics