Downtown Baseball Stadium

[DColeKC]

A retractable roof adds 500 million to the budget and just isn't worth it. Stadiums with retractable roofs look hideous when they're open.

First, it add about $100M to the cost of a stadium for a retractable roof. Second, we have the best design firms in the world located here. Surely, we can design the best retractable roof baseball stadium ever.

It costs 100M back in 2015, there's virtually no way it gets done for less than 150M these days but you're talking about a completely different design than what we've been shown. This isn't even worth discussing because it's not happening. Retractable roofs don't get used often, making them a waste in most circumstances.

[Chris Stritzel]

Even with the more detailed renderings it's still hard to take these seriously, outside perhaps the stadium design specifically for East Village that's been floating around for a while. Every building and use outside of the stadiums themselves, in both sets of renderings, appears to be a placeholder that can/will change at any given moment going forward.

Was hoping we'd see a relatively concrete attached or adjacent design for at least a hotel or apartment tower for EV. I do still like the overall EV plan, stadium design, and especially the pedestrian bridge.

Then re: NKC, as Chris said, there is no way the team or friendly partners will be acquiring the land necessary to make that vision for the NKC site a reality - they show literally every existing building from Armour to 16th Ave and Erie to I-29/35 cleared and replaced. It's a cool concept that could be refined further, but nearly impossible to consider it in the realm of reality. And just dropping the stadium alone into the middle of NKC is lame; I would want to see something of this scale (lake/park/fountains) if the stadium is heading north, something that couldn't be accomplished at EV.

Love all the pretty pictures, but I guess we really are still in wait and see mode...

Same, but they are interesting to look at and keep us talking. I expect more concrete images and plans will be worked on, outside of the stadium, by other architects since Populous's area of expertise is entertainment and stadia. I expect more concrete plans will become known during a public vote campaign with the super official concrete plans coming after a vote. I expect the development will be phased and able to be adjusted to market conditions, but we'll see.

[KCPowercat]

Really happy with the ped bridge. That was a silent dream I had. I like how cherry street builds up as a fun neighborhoody street with amenities.

I really see no competition here but I know I'm biased. I just don't see the need to build event space, a lake, etc. Seems silly.

Having a skyline in the outfield is the least I portabt part of a downtown park.

[beautyfromashes]

It costs 100M back in 2015, there's virtually no way it gets done for less than 150M these days but you're talking about a completely different design than what we've been shown. This isn't even worth discussing because it's not happening. Retractable roofs don't get used often, making them a waste in most circumstances.

Ok, I thought you probably mistyped on “adds $500M to the budget”. Thanks for correcting your mistake.

[Rusty Irish]

Even with the more detailed renderings it's still hard to take these seriously, outside perhaps the stadium design specifically for East Village that's been floating around for a while. Every building and use outside of the stadiums themselves, in both sets of renderings, appears to be a placeholder that can/will change at any given moment going forward.

Was hoping we'd see a relatively concrete attached or adjacent design for at least a hotel or apartment tower for EV. I do still like the overall EV plan, stadium design, and especially the pedestrian bridge.

Then re: NKC, as Chris said, there is no way the team or friendly partners will be acquiring the land necessary to make that vision for the NKC site a reality - they show literally every existing building from Armour to 16th Ave and Erie to I-29/35 cleared and replaced. It's a cool concept that could be refined further, but nearly impossible to consider it in the realm of reality. And just dropping the stadium alone into the middle of NKC is lame; I would want to see something of this scale (lake/park/fountains) if the stadium is heading north, something that couldn't be accomplished at EV.

Love all the pretty pictures, but I guess we really are still in wait and see mode...

Someone asked about potential tenants - it sounded like discussions regarding that are preliminary at most just now with nothing firm so I'd imagine what partners they eventually line up will dictate some of the designs like that particularly regarding something like a hotel.

[GRID]

Even with the more detailed renderings it's still hard to take these seriously, outside perhaps the stadium design specifically for East Village that's been floating around for a while. Every building and use outside of the stadiums themselves, in both sets of renderings, appears to be a placeholder that can/will change at any given moment going forward.

Was hoping we'd see a relatively concrete attached or adjacent design for at least a hotel or apartment tower for EV. I do still like the overall EV plan, stadium design, and especially the pedestrian bridge.

Then re: NKC, as Chris said, there is no way the team or friendly partners will be acquiring the land necessary to make that vision for the NKC site a reality - they show literally every existing building from Armour to 16th Ave and Erie to I-29/35 cleared and replaced. It's a cool concept that could be refined further, but nearly impossible to consider it in the realm of reality. And just dropping the stadium alone into the middle of NKC is lame; I would want to see something of this scale (lake/park/fountains) if the stadium is heading north, something that couldn't be accomplished at EV.

Love all the pretty pictures, but I guess we really are still in wait and see mode...

That's what I was thinking about the NKC site. That is a LOT of land filled with businesses, they are just covering up with that plan. I don't think they have near that much land acquired and doing this on just the little bowling alley site and hoping to get the rest seems really odd and actually quite unlikely.

[beautyfromashes]

I was initially annoyed with the idea of a pedestrian bridge leading to surface parking lots in Paseo. But, maybe this would just be the first step in development of that area. Surface lots are the easiest property to build new on and maybe once demand picks up the develop into residential or another use fairly quickly. And it’s a big enough area that competition would keep prices down encouraging conversion. That whole area to the east is going take see major change either way.

[DColeKC]

It costs 100M back in 2015, there's virtually no way it gets done for less than 150M these days but you're talking about a completely different design than what we've been shown. This isn't even worth discussing because it's not happening. Retractable roofs don't get used often, making them a waste in most circumstances.

Ok, I thought you probably mistyped on “adds $500M to the budget”. Thanks for correcting your mistake.

Going off past numbers and speculating based off of other articles about new stadiums across the country, a retractable roof could very easily be between $300m - $500m. I mean articles from 2014 quote the cost at $100m. The easiest comp for that timeframe is LoanDepot Park and it costs $638 million to build in 2012 which is over $800m in today's dollars. 500 is too high, but 100 is way too low.

[TheSmokinPun]

Saw someone say they wish it was more like Petco Park with downtown in outfield & I had a laugh because all the buildings in outfield were built AFTER Petco Park. Really turned that whole area around. Same with Coors Field, ballparks can indeed spur development.

[KC_Ari]

I still think overall it would be silly to go to NKC. But they seem to be taking the NKC site seriously. Do they really have that much land already in hand?

https://gisweb.claycountymo.gov/maps/

That is Clay Counties parcel viewer, 'Armour District LLC' aka the Merriam's and the City of North Kansas City own like 80%-90% of the properties shown in top down district layout image.

[rxlexi]

Even with the more detailed renderings it's still hard to take these seriously, outside perhaps the stadium design specifically for East Village that's been floating around for a while. Every building and use outside of the stadiums themselves, in both sets of renderings, appears to be a placeholder that can/will change at any given moment going forward.

Was hoping we'd see a relatively concrete attached or adjacent design for at least a hotel or apartment tower for EV. I do still like the overall EV plan, stadium design, and especially the pedestrian bridge.

Then re: NKC, as Chris said, there is no way the team or friendly partners will be acquiring the land necessary to make that vision for the NKC site a reality - they show literally every existing building from Armour to 16th Ave and Erie to I-29/35 cleared and replaced. It's a cool concept that could be refined further, but nearly impossible to consider it in the realm of reality. And just dropping the stadium alone into the middle of NKC is lame; I would want to see something of this scale (lake/park/fountains) if the stadium is heading north, something that couldn't be accomplished at EV.

Love all the pretty pictures, but I guess we really are still in wait and see mode...

That's what I was thinking about the NKC site. That is a LOT of land filled with businesses, they are just covering up with that plan. I don't think they have near that much land acquired and doing this on just the little bowling alley site and hoping to get the rest seems really odd and actually quite unlikely.

Exactly. IMO, this is proof that EV is the site. The NKC plan as shown here is too pie-in-the-sky to take seriously. Unless they really do just plan to drop a stadium on the bowling alley site and bait-and-switch every other component shown. Obviously worst case scenario, that.

EV design and plans as shown appear very workable. I agree with DCole and others that the stadium design needs to be tweaked to be a bit to be more iconic; throw up a Crown Vision board, more fountains, maybe some limestone outside to match the surrounding deco buildings. And then ensure that at least a handful of surrounding buildings, specifically hotel, are built on-site or adjacent day 1.

Paseo West can be developed over time. It looks like the pedestrian bridge would essentially be at 10th street, landing in Paseo West right between the two parks over there (so, maybe not directly into surface parking). Hard to tell right now...

[TheSmokinPun]

Final renderings would always be saved for right before the vote. Get the public excited by finally showing those details right before the ballot.

[KCPowercat]

And they aren't going to blow the budget with final designs for two sites. Kinda what we all said yesterday (well almost all of us)

[moderne]

Pedestrian bridge that lands on the most frequently used homeless refuge park. New spaces for cardboard cabins under the bridge. How can any EV plan not address this issue and put forth a way to at least move it to another part of town?
Is space allocated in plan for possible widening of 35/29 whenever it will someday be redesigned?
Is Charlotte vacated or will it go under the stadium?

[KCPowercat]

No way Charlotte is anything but vacated

[KC_Ari]

ArmourDistrictLLC

Because I was curious, Purple is Armour District LLC, Green is the City of North Kansas City, Yellow is the apartment building shown standing in their renders, everything else is other parties.

[TheSmokinPun]

This stretch alone is enough to doom the NKC site for traffic flow in my eyes. Heck, even the Current games ending make me squeamish now.

Seems like it'll be easier to redevelop & won't really mess with East Village, even though it is close.

[im2kull]

North Kansas City
This idea clearly had a lot of thought put into it, but there's just one big problem. There's no way the Merrimans own all necessary land for this scope.

It's already done.

I still think overall it would be silly to go to NKC. But they seem to be taking the NKC site seriously. Do they really have that much land already in hand?

Yes.

[Chris Stritzel]

North Kansas City
This idea clearly had a lot of thought put into it, but there's just one big problem. There's no way the Merrimans own all necessary land for this scope.

It's already done.

I still think overall it would be silly to go to NKC. But they seem to be taking the NKC site seriously. Do they really have that much land already in hand?

Yes.

I’m glad that it was pointed out that most of the land is already under control. That means that the North Kansas City site might really be an option for them.

[KC_Ari]

The NKC site is terrible for getting into and out of with no way to fix it for anyone south of the river (most fans). Even with the hypothetical streetcar stop on swift they have called out.

The only thing it has going for it is more assembled acres in friendly hands, that's it.