I was thinking about this topic and wanted to revisit it.
Rabble wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:08 pmMy question about this area is the block directly west. In New York they've always referred to low rise buildings on prime real estate as "taxpayers", built to collect rent and pay taxes until the BIG project comes along. Did Copaken Brooks ever consider building 1-4 story buildings on a block bordering their own parking garage, the T-Mobile Center and catty corner to the Power & Light district? How much money could they have made, the last 15 plus years, if they had built wood frame apartment/retail buildings here? The buildings would be about worn out by now and easy demolition for their BIG project.
FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:35 pm
For the planet's sake, we shouldn't be building structures designed to be worn out in 15-20 years, and demolished. Mobile homes last longer than that.
But waiting decades, before anything thing gets built on downtown's empty space, is sure no benefit for the planet. Density is so much more important than height to a lively downtown. Low rise buildings with cheap rent would benefit downtown now, and then could be easily redeveloped when demand for the high rises improves.
So instead of wood let's build with steel. The steel industry has been been recycling about as long as there's been a steel industry. And a flat roof system only lasts for 15-20 years anyway. I'm not sure the damage to the environment, by building low rise- short life span buildings, could be worse than the sea of empty lots we have now.
What happened is that it was demolished and is now in the hands of a real estate company known for sitting on properties for years without doing anything with them.
FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 10:02 pm
What happened is that it was demolished and is now in the hands of a real estate company known for sitting on properties for years without doing anything with them.
Precisely why I'm not all that excited about development in places like the west bottoms. KC has yet to develop a true full functioning urban neighborhood. There are just massive holes all throughout the city where infill is needed first. The River Market is getting close to being built out, but it's relatively small. So much of the city within a few blocks of the streetcar line is still mostly vacant or extremely under, especially along stretches of Grand etc.
But yeah, the P&L District area has been totally transformed from what looked like a bombed out city in 1990. And people still don't think the P&L bonds were worth it.
Whatever happened to Brad Nicholson (not sure I have that name right)? I thought he owned all of this block and was moments away from doing some development here 5 or so years ago. Really struck me in your link just how much of that block remains surface parking.
Whatever happened to Brad Nicholson (not sure I have that name right)? I thought he owned all of this block and was moments away from doing some development here 5 or so years ago. Really struck me in your link just how much of that block remains surface parking.
I know at least 3 development groups who offered him asking. All were denied. He doesn’t want to sell nor develop.
Whatever happened to Brad Nicholson (not sure I have that name right)? I thought he owned all of this block and was moments away from doing some development here 5 or so years ago. Really struck me in your link just how much of that block remains surface parking.
I know at least 3 development groups who offered him asking. All were denied. He doesn’t want to sell nor develop.
Whatever happened to Brad Nicholson (not sure I have that name right)? I thought he owned all of this block and was moments away from doing some development here 5 or so years ago. Really struck me in your link just how much of that block remains surface parking.
I know at least 3 development groups who offered him asking. All were denied. He doesn’t want to sell nor develop.
Parking lot plan:
1. City asks the owner what he values the lot at.
2. City can purchase at that price or will set a tax assessment at that price.
That or we need to keep turning up the assessment heat on these guys until they have to develop or sell. They are costing the city too much in potential tax revenue.
Lastest from Copaken... additional development on the block to the west (Grand).
"The local developer plans a $300 million project with 700 residential units and 20,000 square feet of retail southeast of 12th and McGee streets, once home to Kansas City Public Schools' headquarters in the historic Board of Education building. Last year, Copaken brought Hunt Midwest onboard the 2.6-acre block's ownership through a tenancy-in-commons arrangement."
700 units on that block? You could build out that block with that many units in buildings under 25 stories, but I hope they build a 30 story plus tower there. The east side of downtown really needs a modern skyline changing tower.
GRID wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:03 pm
700 units on that block? You could build out that block with that many units in buildings under 25 stories, but I hope they build a 30 story plus tower there. The east side of downtown really needs a modern skyline changing tower.
Obviously would love a tower, but mostly just want the density. Whatever goes along 12th, a huge consideration from CPC needs to be activation along 12th Street. Assuming a baseball stadium or some eventual development happens in East Village, 12th will be a key pedestrian corridor. If the experience is poor, people will be less inclined to walk between central downtown and the east side. Already this path will have to deal with institutional uses to the east, therefore we want the good stuff to be as good as it can be.
GRID wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:03 pm
700 units on that block? You could build out that block with that many units in buildings under 25 stories, but I hope they build a 30 story plus tower there. The east side of downtown really needs a modern skyline changing tower.
Obviously would love a tower, but mostly just want the density. Whatever goes along 12th, a huge consideration from CPC needs to be activation along 12th Street. Assuming a baseball stadium or some eventual development happens in East Village, 12th will be a key pedestrian corridor. If the experience is poor, people will be less inclined to walk between central downtown and the east side. Already this path will have to deal with institutional uses to the east, therefore we want the good stuff to be as good as it can be.
Agreed. Just saying it would be nice if part of the development could rise into the 30s while keeping the entire block dense. Just to give the city some diversity in height with new construction. It looks like all the new buildings in downtown are up against a 200' ceiling or something and it just looks weird with all the older stuff.
But yeah, I would take a better designed project at street level if it's that vs a taller tower component. I just think there is room for both with 700 units.
GRID wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:03 pm
700 units on that block? You could build out that block with that many units in buildings under 25 stories, but I hope they build a 30 story plus tower there. The east side of downtown really needs a modern skyline changing tower.
Obviously would love a tower, but mostly just want the density. Whatever goes along 12th, a huge consideration from CPC needs to be activation along 12th Street. Assuming a baseball stadium or some eventual development happens in East Village, 12th will be a key pedestrian corridor. If the experience is poor, people will be less inclined to walk between central downtown and the east side. Already this path will have to deal with institutional uses to the east, therefore we want the good stuff to be as good as it can be.
Agreed. Just saying it would be nice if part of the development could rise into the 30s while keeping the entire block dense. Just to give the city some diversity in height with new construction. It looks like all the new buildings in downtown are up against a 200' ceiling or something and it just looks weird with all the older stuff.
But yeah, I would take a better designed project at street level if it's that vs a taller tower component. I just think there is room for both with 700 units.
Not bad. 700 units. It’ll change the skyline even if the buildings are 24-25 stories. That’s One and Two Light height in an area where buildings aren’t that tall. These will be beefy if they hold true.
You're both right.
-12th must be highly activated for the stadium walk
-We really should use some height here, and I'm not sure how it wouldn't if it's 700
Maybe the reason Royals weren't focusing much on residential is they were thinking these types of developments were going to build it all up for them
But how tall will the parking podium be?! /s Hopefully it's a massive Texas donut or stacking the parking on McGee for both projects could work – shared parking agreement please.
bspecht wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:09 pm
But how tall will the parking podium be?! /s Hopefully it's a massive Texas donut or stacking the parking on McGee for both projects could work – shared parking agreement please.
Agreed. Is a 20 story building w/ a 10 story podium really a 20 story building? #philosophical
Kidding aside though, you're absolutely right that as this side of downtown comes more into focus, managing parking (i.e., shared use agreements, not overbuilding) is going to be critical. If we build thousands and thousands of new spots we are making it that much more difficult for Kansas City to reach the more active and walkable future most of us wish for it.
