Downtown Baseball Stadium

[phuqueue]

In 2016, coming off a WS win, the Royals were middle of the pack in attendance in the MLB.

In 2016, they were 12th in attendance and 16th in overall record.

Everything people have ever told me or that I have seen was that even in the best years we were ok on attendance. I really do think it’s a market and stadium location/experience issue. The best years show that even when the team is good we do not pack the stadium.

They were routinely top 10, sometimes top 5 attendance during their good seasons in the 70s and early 80s. They were typically only outdrawn by much larger cities and/or better teams (1976-1978, they were outdrawn each year by NYY, LA, Philadelphia, Boston, and Cincinnati's Big Red Machine).

The Royals will draw fine if they ever put a decent product on the field, but they seem to be just institutionally inept, which would likely follow them to Nashville or wherever. I don't hold any romantic view of team ownership that they would never chase dollars to another city because there's too much history or whatever, much more shocking team moves have happened before. But hopefully Royals ownership is at least competent enough to understand that the city is not what's wrong with the team, and that whatever honeymoon they enjoy for their first few years in their new home probably isn't going to offset the costs associated with moving in the first place if they continue to field as awful a team as they have for most of this century. And failing that, maybe we can get Josh Hawley to threaten MLB's antitrust exemption.

70's and 80's is not a legit comp. The recent successful years show that even when the team is really good we can't fill the place.

I mean, the 70s and 80s were "the best years." If you want to talk recent, they were under .500 until late July 2014 before they went on a run in August and September to grab a wild card, then they were actually good in 2015, and then they were back to .500 in 2016, so I'm not sure you really have a large enough pool of data here to draw any firm conclusions at all. With what happened at the end, it tends to be forgotten now, but the first four months of 2014 were actually very disappointing for a team that had finally eked out a winning record and stayed mathematically (if not realistically) alive in the playoff picture until the last week of the 2013 season, so I'm not sure I would actually place 2014 in "the best years" for purposes of dissecting attendance figures. But in 2015 they cracked the top 10, and in 2016 their attendance slipped by much less than their on-field performance, for whatever that all is worth. The 70s and 80s might be a long time ago now, but they're also the last time the team was consistently good over a several years long period. Maybe they're not a "legit" comp, but by default, they are the only comp.

[langosta]

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[phuqueue]

That's not entirely unfair but not the same thing as saying that KC is only "ok on attendance" even for a good team. But I think the (limited) evidence more strongly supports the argument that KC will turn out for a good team than that we can't fill a stadium either way. Another (flawed) comp is the Chiefs, a team that KC didn't particularly support when they were bad (granted, that also was a long time ago, if we are looking for a consistent, several years long period) but that has no trouble selling out one of the league's largest stadiums when they are competitive.

[aknowledgeableperson]

When this team gives the tiniest semblance of hope to not see a loser all season long, the fans support them. Ownership has to realize that they have to invest in the team and lose money to recapture the fans. They did absolutely nothing this last offseason. Minor league OFs, all unproven (besides Greinke) pitching staff. No 3B. I just don’t know what they were expecting. Maybe, they’re cash poor after buying the team, but they had to know this would be a lousy team. If I didn’t live downtown, I’d vote against this stadium.

Don't know the individual owners nor their wealth but the statement about being cash poor may not be far offbase. As an example one can look at the Kansas City Kings. Ownership group was a collection of local businessmen. The team operated on a shoestring budget. When free agency hit the NBA and the Lakers signed Abdul-Jabbar for a salary that exceeded the Kings gate receipts for a year the ownership group couldn't compete with the big boys. Not saying the Royals will be sold and the team moves but this ownership should know they are going to pay more for talent and spend wisely. No more signing washed up talent and hoping somehow they can have a decent year or two.
There was talk of trading Perez recently to save money. I think that would be a big mistake. It would make it appear that nothing has changed from the past when the team didn't resign their young players when they couldn't afford the higher salary. Yes, Perez isn't young but he isn't a player who can be replaced easily.

[beautyfromashes]

Don't know the individual owners nor their wealth but the statement about being cash poor may not be far offbase. As an example one can look at the Kansas City Kings. Ownership group was a collection of local businessmen. The team operated on a shoestring budget. When free agency hit the NBA and the Lakers signed Abdul-Jabbar for a salary that exceeded the Kings gate receipts for a year the ownership group couldn't compete with the big boys. Not saying the Royals will be sold and the team moves but this ownership should know they are going to pay more for talent and spend wisely. No more signing washed up talent and hoping somehow they can have a decent year or two.

Totally agree on this. Sports is not a revenue stream venture. It's why the Royals have been so bad. We've had owners who have said, "I'm not in this to lose money." So, they would only play with the money they made throughout the year. But, Glass sold the team for a BILLION dollars!!! So, the message was SO disingenuous after paying so very little and walking away with a pile. An owner should expect to lose money every year. If you can't meet those terms, you shouldn't be an owner. This is a long game that pays off when you sell and gives you the enjoyment of being an owner and playing with the big boys while you're alive.

There was talk of trading Perez recently to save money. I think that would be a big mistake. It would make it appear that nothing has changed from the past when the team didn't resign their young players when they couldn't afford the higher salary. Yes, Perez isn't young but he isn't a player who can be replaced easily.

Disagree with this. Perez will never play in another Royals playoff game. He should have been gone a long time ago if the team wasn't going to spend money on free agents around him. He's been wasted, and it's a credit to him that he hasn't been more disgruntled and pushing for a winner.

[langosta]

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[shinatoo]

The big problem with AlthingsKC's premise is that, unlike Oakland, the Royals aren't trying to tank. They are actually trying to be good. And they should be much better than this. That's the most frustrating thing about this season.

[Cratedigger]

I don't know a whole lot about baseball, but I know that very rich people love money. If things aren't going the owners' way and they aren't getting the support they need for a downtown stadium and they are faced with dumping a bunch of money into the team or selling them for a profit, which one will they take? Loyalty to the hometown and losing lots of money or making more money?

Very rich people are also concerned about their legacy. This ownership group does not want to be the one that moved to the Royals from their hometown.

The big problem with AlthingsKC's premise is that, unlike Oakland, the Royals aren't trying to tank. They are actually trying to be good. And they should be much better than this. That's the most frustrating thing about this season.

Exactly! They revamped their coaching staff this year and fired one of the longest tenured GMs in baseball. And I actually like a lot of what Q has done.

Unfortunately, most of the front office is the same and what they really might need to overhaul is the scouting department. Our farm system is ass despite the high picks we’ve had. Say what you will about GMDM, it’s not 100% on him. I get that Sherman wants stability but we need more new ideas. It truly seems like the FO is stagnant

[phuqueue]

I mean GMDM hired the scouting department and made the draft picks that stocked the farm system, so the only part that isn't 100% on him is whatever has been done since he left. But it's not only scouting, it's also player development. We routinely watch guys bust here and then go on to become productive for other teams. It's far too small a sample size (only 26 games) to draw firm conclusions yet, but Ryan O'Hearn might be the latest example (.315/.363/.603 with the Orioles). The entire organization is just hopelessly inept from top to bottom.

[KC_Ari]

https://fox4kc.com/sports/royals/royals ... locations/

Apparent confirmation that it's down to East Village and the NKC site, like has been suspected on here.

[AllThingsKC]

Royals confirm they're down to 2 stadium locations.
(NKC and East Village)

https://fox4kc.com/sports/royals/royals ... locations/

I'm surprised NKC is such a serious contender for this.

The big problem with AlthingsKC's premise is that, unlike Oakland, the Royals aren't trying to tank. They are actually trying to be good. And they should be much better than this. That's the most frustrating thing about this season.

Not that I disagree, but what have you seen from them that suggests they're actively trying to be good? I have disagreed with almost every move they've made for the last year. Not that I'm an expert or anything.

[Noahfleshman]

MLB wants out of Jackson County, the mayor can’t get a grip, they’re putting the stadium in Clay County. They’ll put soccer / more Lego apartments in the east village. NKC is a clean slate. As bad as this city wants everything to be downtown, it’s not going to happen. Jackson County can’t even maintain the parks it has, and I wouldn’t doubt Harrahs ownership group throws silent money at this too. They’ll get their streetcar funding, and north Kansas City will be the new cool place in town. It’ll be just like Sodo in Seattle. As bad as everyone wants this downtown, myself included I just don’t see it happening. Not to mention I’d rather see my tax money go into something else, other than sports. We can’t stop crime, yet we can give tax money to the royals. All these cities need to get a grip on what really matters. You can give the argument all you want it helps the city, and I know it does in a lot of ways, our state still taxes groceries yet gives money to sports teams, it’s backwards. How much of a kickback will the mayor and his cronies get from this going into Jackson county, same goes for NKC, it’s a double standard. It’s great, yet also a burden. They’ll build a new stadium in whatever county, the royals will still suck, the city cares more about mahomes and soccer, baseball will never be what is was. Give it 15-20 years and we’ll have another Kemper Arena on our hands.

[langosta]

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[beautyfromashes]

A's Las Vegas stadium deal wins final approval in Nevada Legislature
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/ne ... lic-money/

"Nevada Legislature gave final approval on Wednesday to public funding for a portion of a proposed $1.5 billion stadium with a retractable roof. The Assembly approved the final version of the bill with $380 million in taxpayer money...The $380 million in public funding would mainly come from $180 million in transferable tax credits and $120 million in county bonds. Under the deal approved Wednesday, the A's would not owe property taxes for the publicly owned stadium. Clark County, which includes Las Vegas, would also contribute $25 million in credit toward infrastructure costs."

This seems like exactly what we should be providing and not a penny more. Similar amount spent on the stadium and entertainment district, no property taxes paid on the stadium, approval by the state of gaming, backing for some bonds for construction and $25M from the city for infrastructure. Take it or leave it.

[Cratedigger]

I mean GMDM hired the scouting department and made the draft picks that stocked the farm system, so the only part that isn't 100% on him is whatever has been done since he left. But it's not only scouting, it's also player development. We routinely watch guys bust here and then go on to become productive for other teams. It's far too small a sample size (only 26 games) to draw firm conclusions yet, but Ryan O'Hearn might be the latest example (.315/.363/.603 with the Orioles). The entire organization is just hopelessly inept from top to bottom.

Yup. Agree.

I’m just saying that there’s more to it than just GMDM.

If you fire the guy at the top but don’t change anything else can you really expect results to meaningfully change quickly?

Player development on the hitting side HAS improved recently. Pitching is still a depressing wasteland and needs the same overhaul hitting underwent a few years back

[Noahfleshman]

I’m sorry, but I’d rather not pay property tax before a baseball team, these teams make billions they don’t need our money, ask the alcohol companies that sponsor you.

[KC_Ari]

Also, NKC rail or any rail to a baseball sized stadium needs to be LRT style and vehicle size or it’s useless.

After the draft, I'm less concerned with the NKC streetcar extension running into issues other than its present funding woes. The draft was packed with all 6 trams running but it managed, by the time the stadium would open the fleet will be twice the size due to the current extension with the possibility of more.

The majority of suburbanites will still drive.

[dukuboy1]

Yeah I'm not too worried about this team moving to Nashville. The ownership group is all from KC and or has KC roots.

Stan Kroenke had local roots...

yeah, but way different. He had no intentions of staying in STL and the NFL really pressured him and made it a sweet deal to get him to commit to relocate to LA and get a team in that media market. There was a level of embarrassment on the NFL side that the biggest sport in the USA did not have a team in the 2nd largest Metro in the US and 2nd largest media market. It was about the dollars for the NFL and the shared dollars other owners would make as well when sharing the revenue

[langosta]

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[TheSmokinPun]

All this talk of relocation when they're actively trying to drain Nashville/Charlotte/Portland of expansion dollars that will make everyone a lot richer than moving a sad team across state lines.

It's near delusional at this point to think that the Royals would relocate. They are here, none of the above cities want them. They're going to have to find a way to make it work here, there is no other solution out of town.