It may be best to consolidate the posts in multiple unique threads about rail to KCI
- KCATA is studying intercity rail including lines to/from KCI
- KCMO is offering up a tax renewal which may in part fund LRT to the airport
What has changed from previous proposals:
- KCAD is now allowed to use airport funds to pay for the construction of a "standard" rail mass transit line. Their contribution is capped at the estimated % of the line's users who are going to/from the airport.
- KCATA and KCMO think that they can build out the Line Creek ROW for $2-5 million (tracks + Signal + station?)
I usually just gloss over the “regional rail” or “rail plans” stuff on here because people always claim it can’t ever be done anyway because of muh density corridor. So is this for real or just fake hype?
That line between Zona Rosa and the Legends seems pretty pointless if they aren't going to extend that down to JOCO where it would pick up airport riders. Nobody lives along that line.
I selfishly want to see the line to the airport go down Line Creek over I-29 so it would be walkable from my house...
Interesting, would love to see something like this happen, especially with park & ride stations to serve serve residential suburbs. However my guess is there would need to be a JOCO/KS side line separate from the MO side of things and that there would be a hub somewhere South of the airport to service where the lines would split. But like others have said, most likely a pipe dream but happy the discussion has started or continues to be heard, regardless of the outcome.
Definitely always an interesting discussion. I think the struggle with park and rides in KC is that it doesn't take very long to drive downtown from almost anywhere in the metro, and parking is rather cheap. The eternal struggle.
TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:16 pm
Is this actually something can really happen?
I usually just gloss over the “regional rail” or “rail plans” stuff on here because people always claim it can’t ever be done anyway because of muh density corridor. So is this for real or just fake hype?
Anything is possible if the citizenry come out and airport it
dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:47 am
Interesting, would love to see something like this happen, especially with park & ride stations to serve serve residential suburbs. However my guess is there would need to be a JOCO/KS side line separate from the MO side of things and that there would be a hub somewhere South of the airport to service where the lines would split. But like others have said, most likely a pipe dream but happy the discussion has started or continues to be heard, regardless of the outcome.
Park and Ride stations are the worst land use for a rail system. It creates massive craters of parking lots around the stations which ruins the point of reducing car dependence by making the rail line in the first place. It's much better to let higher density residential nodes build up around the stations that people can bike/walk to than to cater to cars with a train.
langosta wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:51 pm
Mayor tweeted that this is more than just study to study and that he’s working on figuring out how we can actually build it
I saw that. I think everyone sympathizes with the guy he retweeted saying "I hope this isn't just another study that goes nowhere" because that's all they've been toying with everyone for two decades now and it's getting very annoying. We always hear about their plans and then they do nothing. So I think now nobody really cares anymore unless they actually put up a vote or fund some of it first. Just anything.
langosta wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:51 pm
Mayor tweeted that this is more than just study to study and that he’s working on figuring out how we can actually build it
I saw that. I think everyone sympathizes with the guy he retweeted saying "I hope this isn't just another study that goes nowhere" because that's all they've been toying with everyone for two decades now and it's getting very annoying. We always hear about their plans and then they do nothing. So I think now nobody really cares anymore unless they actually put up a vote or fund some of it first. Just anything.
KC has studied new fixed guideway transit for approximately 70 years now - I am not joking. There have been many great plans but no one has been able to collect enough votes.
There are many ways to get to KCI but only a few ways to pay for transit that probably don't cover the cost.
dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:47 am
Interesting, would love to see something like this happen, especially with park & ride stations to serve serve residential suburbs. However my guess is there would need to be a JOCO/KS side line separate from the MO side of things and that there would be a hub somewhere South of the airport to service where the lines would split. But like others have said, most likely a pipe dream but happy the discussion has started or continues to be heard, regardless of the outcome.
Park and Ride stations are the worst land use for a rail system. It creates massive craters of parking lots around the stations which ruins the point of reducing car dependence by making the rail line in the first place. It's much better to let higher density residential nodes build up around the stations that people can bike/walk to than to cater to cars with a train.
Well if your plan is to just have light rail service the urban residents, then yes I hear you. Issue is majority of the population in KC Metro Ives in the surrounding burbs, not downtown through Waldo. I agree building park & rude not ideal. I’d be more open to utilizing existing structures/buildings to see what can be built out, repurposed, etc. but I’m not going to spend a lot of time worrying about a total pipe dream
What is with the line along 152 to the west loop of 435? There is literally NOBODY in the entire corridor. 435 out there is more rural that I-70 in mid Missouri. And any of the WyCo and Leavenworth lines are never going to happen. Again, just not enough population density for the miles, I mean nowhere close and it never will be.
35 south of Downtown to Olathe with a possible spur down 169.
70 east of Downtown to Blue Springs with a spur to Lee's Summit.
That's it. No other regional rail makes sense and those really should be in place before really thinking bout a KCI line so they can drive ridership to the KCI line. But at least a KCI line has the airport and a corridor that could rapidly densify. WyCo is never going to build out into anything.
Commuter rail is not worth the cost. They can't even get commuter rail to work halfway decent in the DC area and most of their stops connect with METRO, Amtrak etc.
One of the more successful commuter rail projects (in usa) for a metro the size of KC (Nashville Star) barely gets 1500 riders a week. It's just a waste of time and effort. Commuter rail in the USA is a total joke.
I still just do not understand why the metro is not concentrating on the I-70 corridor (MO side) and also trying again with the I-35 corridor (KS side). And I mean some form of full service LRT, not rush hour trains moving 150 people from a parking lot to and from the city twice a day.
GRID wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:19 pm
What is with the line along 152 to the west loop of 435? There is literally NOBODY in the entire corridor. 435 out there is more rural that I-70 in mid Missouri. And any of the WyCo and Leavenworth lines are never going to happen. Again, just not enough population density for the miles, I mean nowhere close and it never will be.
35 south of Downtown to Olathe with a possible spur down 169.
70 east of Downtown to Blue Springs with a spur to Lee's Summit.
That's it. No other regional rail makes sense and those really should be in place before really thinking bout a KCI line so they can drive ridership to the KCI line. But at least a KCI line has the airport and a corridor that could rapidly densify. WyCo is never going to build out into anything.
Commuter rail is not worth the cost. They can't even get commuter rail to work halfway decent in the DC area and most of their stops connect with METRO, Amtrak etc.
One of the more successful commuter rail projects (in usa) for a metro the size of KC (Nashville Star) barely gets 1500 riders a week. It's just a waste of time and effort. Commuter rail in the USA is a total joke.
I still just do not understand why the metro is not concentrating on the I-70 corridor (MO side) and also trying again with the I-35 corridor (KS side). And I mean some form of full service LRT, not rush hour trains moving 150 people from a parking lot to and from the city twice a day.
The northern line only really makes sense in the context of a connection to St. Jo, outside of that, I’d have to agree
FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:31 pm
If any light rail plan calls for massive park and ride craters next to expensive stations is a no for me dog
The park-and-ride era is over. If you spend this kind of money on rail, build real shit at the stations.
FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:31 pm
If any light rail plan calls for massive park and ride craters next to expensive stations is a no for me dog
The park-and-ride era is over. If you spend this kind of money on rail, build real shit at the stations.
Is Kansas City aware that the era of park and ride is over? Their track record does not inspire confidence.
The era of constructing highways through neighborhoods was coming to an end, but KC still built Highway 71.
Similarly, the era of sprawling office parks like Corporate Woods was fading away, yet KC gave Super TIF to Cerner.
FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:31 pm
If any light rail plan calls for massive park and ride craters next to expensive stations is a no for me dog
The park-and-ride era is over. If you spend this kind of money on rail, build real shit at the stations.
Is Kansas City aware that the era of park and ride is over? Their track record does not inspire confidence.
The era of constructing highways through neighborhoods was coming to an end, but KC still built Highway 71.
Similarly, the era of sprawling office parks like Corporate Woods was fading away, yet KC gave Super TIF to Cerner.
the map that shows park and rides is from 2006......
