Capping the Loop

[moderne]

Things fell apart back when the state mental hospitals were closed and patients were put in group homes and outpatient treatment. The warehousing of mental patients in bleak state hospitals was not the optimum solution but the current situation is much worse for those suffering illness and the rest of everyday society.
I fail to see why the freeway lid "park" would be a major attractant for unhoused.

[neptune]

Guess we’ll just not invest in any park space, transit, etc. whatsoever until there’s not a single person left unhoused. I can’t fathom the race to the bottom mentality some of you guys have. Let’s just pour concrete in the swimming pools while we’re at it because sometimes people go there that are “scary.”

Nah, just put the crazies in jail and keep them there.

I can't fathom the current mentality of allowing insane, evil and/or drug addicted individuals to wreak havoc and murder on our society. There will come a day when it will no longer be tolerated and then those in charge that have allowed it to happen for decades will pay heavily.

I like parks, this is just the wrong place and it is almost impossible to work here.
If the streets south of Truman were actually developed with new projects there would be no need at all for the cap.

You've just described politicians, CEO's, doctors, dentists, your neighbors... I mean seriously I cant fathom making such a stupid sweeping generalization that anyone on the street is "insane, evill, and/or drug addicted" when Americans like Jeffry Dahmer, Ted Bundy, and Dennis Rader were all seemingly normal people in everyday society. Rader, the BTK killer incase you've forgot, was on his church's council and a cub scout leader ffs.

Politicians and TV and radio personalities openly incite violence every day, there are public and religious figures that are convicted of child molestation nearly daily, and there are suburban children that set cats on fire because theyre bored, but you're annoyed that there are homeless people in a park and you want them locked up cause theyre dirty? Theyre not even the most crazy, dirty, or drug addicted people you know, and you dont even know these homeless people.

And if you think homeless people are a problem in downtown KC then literally go to any other city in American and then complain. I was in KC this month and its so much cleaner than Los Angeles its honesly laughable to think any of you could be bothered by homeless people in KC enough to say "lock them up." You all must really live sheltered lives if youve never seen multiple people smoking crack or masturbating or deficating themselves on a bus or train, all of which I've witnessed multiple times on BART and LA Metro in 8 years of living in California. There's alwasy been homeless and panhandlers in KC, but never enough where each mayoral election for the past 4 elections have been focused on homelessness issues like in the 29 urban areas that are larger than Kansas City.

There will be no more homeless people on this new freeway park than there are at Ilus Davis, Penn Valley, Mill Valley, Swope or any of KC's other urban parks, and life will be no different in KC with or without this park except for the existence, or lack thereof, of the park itself and everyone's unfounded opionions about it.

[DaveKCMO]

There will be no more homeless people on this new freeway park than there are at Ilus Davis, Penn Valley, Mill Valley, Swope or any of KC's other urban parks, and life will be no different in KC with or without this park except for the existence, or lack thereof, of the park itself and everyone's unfounded opionions about it.

I assure you there will be less:

a) this park is being designed for this time in history
b) it will be privately managed

[beautyfromashes]

You all must really live sheltered lives if youve never seen multiple people smoking crack or masturbating or deficating themselves on a bus or train, all of which I've witnessed multiple times on BART and LA Metro in 8 years of living in California.

I'm not sure you're really making your point here if this is what the new normal should be. If your point is, "It could be/get so much worse!", I think the response would be the opposite of what you're probably going for.

[beautyfromashes]

b) it will be privately managed

Then it should be privately funded.

[smh]

I don't see much problem closing Baltimore. Any fear I've voiced of closing any street has zero to do with any car first mentally. It has everything to do with protecting streetcar headways and the already all too often closing of grand which basically takes it out of any traffic flow, which will become a bigger thing once royals are downtown

And the not-often-discussed potential for private sector abuse of this new space. It will be managed by a private nonprofit, with heavy control by Cordish/Loews. What could go wrong? (See also the park atop Cosentino's garage)

I personally think it should be managed by private nonprofit given the location (too many issues to expect KCMO Parks to keep control), that sentiment just doesn't extend to the streets. (See also Westport sidewalks)

How do we feel about Downtown Council expanding its portfolio to manage this space? A lot of DBIDs manage park space, DTC already dabbles.

[langosta]

b) it will be privately managed

Then it should be privately funded.

Berkley Park is private management

[DaveKCMO]

Same is proposed for Barney Allis Plaza -- publicly funded and privately managed. Technically you can lump Oppenstein in there, too, since the Downtown Council/CID manages it on behalf of Jackson County.

[beautyfromashes]

Same is proposed for Barney Allis Plaza -- publicly funded and privately managed. Technically you can lump Oppenstein in there, too, since the Downtown Council/CID manages it on behalf of Jackson County.

Totally different. The downtown council is not a for profit corporation looking to squeeze every dime out of their management of downtown. Cordish should have zero control over that park. And everyone's making a big deal about them giving a relatively small fraction for the cost of construction. They're basically converting their taxes into a donation for something they control and adds more profits/higher assets to themselves.

[Jblanco]

You all must really live sheltered lives if youve never seen multiple people smoking crack or masturbating or deficating themselves on a bus or train, all of which I've witnessed multiple times on BART and LA Metro in 8 years of living in California. There's alwasy been homeless and panhandlers in KC,

[GRID]

You all must really live sheltered lives if youve never seen multiple people smoking crack or masturbating or deficating themselves on a bus or train, all of which I've witnessed multiple times on BART and LA Metro in 8 years of living in California. There's alwasy been homeless and panhandlers in KC,

I never really see much of the extreme stuff in KC. Pretty used to it here in DC, Philly, NYC and places like Chicago, Atlanta, any west coast city etc.

Seen some really crazy stuff in all those cities and been scared for my safety more than a few times. Sad thing is I never see it when we travel overseas. It's mostly an American thing. Okay, my phone was stolen on a Milan train, but pickpocketing is really the only major crime there.

Our cities really are a mess, but I guess I'm used to it. I work near a very major transit center in Silver Spring MD and there are always homeless etc around it.

It really seems like it's not near as big of an issue in KC. You see some, but not that much. Central KC is generally a very empty/quiet city of any people though, not just homeless. Unless it's first Friday or something.

I will say the last time I was in KC, we got on the streetcar and the very next stop like five methheads got on. They looked pretty harmless, but they were annoying enough that we got off a stop early and walked.

IDK, I'm honestly pretty frustrated with America in general. Crime, so many people totally lawless and disrespectful, our cities are all 60% shit with sprawl and decay, our infrastructure is outdated and crumbling, mass shootings, crime through the roof, mentally ill just wondering the streets everywhere and everybody else is in the suburbs driving massive pickup trucks and driving to megachurches, walmarts and strip malls. Shall I even mention our health care, our obsession with the flag/military and conspiracy theories and religion. We are a bunch of rubes globally.

If I was not tied here with jobs and family, I would have left and both my kids want to leave the USA. And they live in what they know is one of the better parts of the country to live in.

Sorry for the rant lol. I know no place is perfect, but America has gone off the rails.

[GRID]

^ Even though I said all that. I still think capping the freeway should be done. KC needs to focus on that part of the city and make it nice. Put the stadium on the other end and tie it all together.

[Cratedigger]

You all must really live sheltered lives if youve never seen multiple people smoking crack or masturbating or deficating themselves on a bus or train, all of which I've witnessed multiple times on BART and LA Metro in 8 years of living in California. There's alwasy been homeless and panhandlers in KC,

I never really see much of the extreme stuff in KC. Pretty used to it here in DC, Philly, NYC and places like Chicago, Atlanta, any west coast city etc.

Seen some really crazy stuff in all those cities and been scared for my safety more than a few times. Sad thing is I never see it when we travel overseas. It's mostly an American thing. Okay, my phone was stolen on a Milan train, but pickpocketing is really the only major crime there.

Our cities really are a mess, but I guess I'm used to it. I work near a very major transit center in Silver Spring MD and there are always homeless etc around it.

It really seems like it's not near as big of an issue in KC. You see some, but not that much. Central KC is generally a very empty/quiet city of any people though, not just homeless. Unless it's first Friday or something.

I will say the last time I was in KC, we got on the streetcar and the very next stop like five methheads got on. They looked pretty harmless, but they were annoying enough that we got off a stop early and walked.

I agree that you don't see much of the extreme stuff in KC. The thing is since KC is generally empty and quiet on the streets sometimes you'll be one on one with someone and not sure how they'll react. So it is a different vibe than if there are other people on the street with you. Something I've experienced and heard from women in my life. Even those that have lived in DC and Chicago and are used to living downtown/everything that goes along with that.

With that said, it's likely that this will be managed by a nonprofit separate from the city and Cordish/Loews but with representation on the board from some of those stakeholders. A Friends of Blunt Park if you will. Just like most of the similar projects out there in other cities.

[herrfrank]

KC did not have a large beggar/ loitering problem for many decades. And many homes were cheap here for a loooooong time (not to say that cheap housing eliminates homelessness, but it does help around the margins). We also have been lucky to host a reasonably successful shelter in the form of City Union Mission since the 1920s.

From 1945 until around 1990 (per multiple memories), there were few if any loiterers. Even in the bottom of the 1970s crash, they tended to congregate in a few areas of midtown. I recall still how shocked I was in the late 1990s to see street begging on SW Tfwy. It was not simply a new place for it; street begging was not a visible KC thing before then.

[WoodDraw]

It took over three years to build Klyde Warren Park in Dallas and that was build time, not design time. Of course that park was a much more involved project that basically rebuilt everything in the corridor except the driving lanes of the highway and created an actual tunnel.

I still don't understand the KC project at all. It's like they are just going to build lids over the highway between the existing bridges or something. Will these lids have gaps on all fours sides for ventilation? Even though Klyde Warren Park was a more invasive and comprehensive rebuild and is a ventilated sealed tunnel, it cost half what the KC park is projected to cost.

I hope it happens, but I still have a lot of questions and having any of it finished by 2026 seems like a longshot still.

So I’ve asked the project teams about this and they’ve told me they’re building a tunnel with ventilation fans on the edges of the park

* I’m not an engineer and I obviously don’t have the final design specs

P.s. I heard this independently of cratedigger today. No confirmation though.

[KCPowercat]

positive news

[kboish]

The city council approved $10 million dollars today for the cap. This serves as support for the city's application for state tax credits that will help build the project.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Apparently they’re up to $115 mil total soon for this project? I think

[DaveKCMO]

Apparently they’re up to $115 mil total soon for this project? I think

Unlikely. They haven't resolved two key issues:

- Should the city take on the added infrastructure (private interests will maintain, but only in the sweeping/mowing sense -- not structural responsibility)
- Which entity will take ownership to manage/build the project if additional federal funds are pursued? This was a red flag in the last federal grant since the applicant was the Downtown Council.

[kboish]

The last council discussion approving the $10 million from the city included requirement for a community benefits agreement with all the stakeholders saying city owns this, a non-profit cid or similar will be in charge of maintenance. And if that doesn’t happen, city won’t contribute the money or support the apps.