GRID wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 11:19 pm
The NKC location seems very odd and counter productive, but it would be better than staying at the TSC I guess.
Hot take I've had recently is the Chiefs should be the ones looking at the NKC site. While the Royals def need to be downtown, that NKC has killer views of the skyline. Lowkey I've always preferred the skyline view looking from the north. I think it would be great for the Chiefs to look at, plus it would shift financial burden to Clay instead.
But alas, Hunt wouldn't dare look at anything outside of suburbanized area's far away from the evil urban center. It must either be TSC or the Legends! Nevermind the fact that literally every other peer has NFL around the urban core.
If Hunt considered Clay County at all, it's more likely Arrowhead Stadium would get built next to Worlds of Fun instead of in the municipality of NKC. That way Hunt could seek financial support from Clay County as well as KCMO, since that WOF site is still within Kansas City limits. The WOF parking lots could be used since the amusement park is closed down for most of the football season, and there are hotels nearby.
You have to wonder if soccer gets to a point in the US where it's popular enough to fill an NFL sized stadium. Once that happens, you could see more dual-use stadiums with a combination NFL-MLS. This could break the narrative of NFL stadiums not being a good fit for urban cores because they only hold a couple dozen events a year. Of course, NFL-MLB combination stadiums never worked out because of the geometry of the fields but soccer and football don't have this issue. This could even change the ownership of athletic teams in the United States to more of the European model where they have "sporting clubs" that cross sports where a club like Bayern Munich can have a soccer team but also have a womens team, basketball, handball and even e-sports and chess teams under the same ownership umbrella. This efficiency could save the community money while also bring attention to sports that don't get as much attention.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 7:37 am
You have to wonder if soccer gets to a point in the US where it's popular enough to fill an NFL sized stadium. Once that happens, you could see more dual-use stadiums with a combination NFL-MLS. This could break the narrative of NFL stadiums not being a good fit for urban cores because they only hold a couple dozen events a year. Of course, NFL-MLB combination stadiums never worked out because of the geometry of the fields but soccer and football don't have this issue. This could even change the ownership of athletic teams in the United States to more of the European model where they have "sporting clubs" that cross sports where a club like Bayern Munich can have a soccer team but also have a womens team, basketball, handball and even e-sports and chess teams under the same ownership umbrella. This efficiency could save the community money while also bring attention to sports that don't get as much attention.
Arrowhead is getting remodeled to accommodate soccer. So if they stay there or rebuild there, or anywhere else, the stadium will be built for soccer too, just like every other NFL stadium has been for decades. My guess is within 15 years SKC moves back into Arrowhead.
beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 7:37 am
You have to wonder if soccer gets to a point in the US where it's popular enough to fill an NFL sized stadium. Once that happens, you could see more dual-use stadiums with a combination NFL-MLS. This could break the narrative of NFL stadiums not being a good fit for urban cores because they only hold a couple dozen events a year. Of course, NFL-MLB combination stadiums never worked out because of the geometry of the fields but soccer and football don't have this issue. This could even change the ownership of athletic teams in the United States to more of the European model where they have "sporting clubs" that cross sports where a club like Bayern Munich can have a soccer team but also have a womens team, basketball, handball and even e-sports and chess teams under the same ownership umbrella. This efficiency could save the community money while also bring attention to sports that don't get as much attention.
Arrowhead is getting remodeled to accommodate soccer. So if they stay there or rebuild there, or anywhere else, the stadium will be built for soccer too, just like every other NFL stadium has been for decades. My guess is within 15 years SKC moves back into Arrowhead.
Have they? SoFi can’t remove enough seats to fit FIFA championship field.
shinatoo wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 9:42 am
Arrowhead is getting remodeled to accommodate soccer. So if they stay there or rebuild there, or anywhere else, the stadium will be built for soccer too, just like every other NFL stadium has been for decades. My guess is within 15 years SKC moves back into Arrowhead.
But, wouldn't a combination SKC/Chiefs stadium produce enough events combined to make it viable for an urban center? That's 40 games of soccer and 25 of football along with concerts during the summer. That's starting to get close to how many events a Royals stadium has in a year. Maybe, instead of trying to lure the Royals downtown we should be looking to spend more money to build a retractable roof "New Arrowhead" that could also grab events like a Final Four and Super Bowl.
SOFI is a world cup venue but cannot host the Championship game. FIFA fields have a recommended pitch size of 107m x 68m, but for international play that can vary from 100 x 64 to 110 x 75 meters. Not sure what the championship required size is but if they want the maximum size only MetLife can host.
That said, just because a field isn't FIFA Championship size doesn't mean it's not regulation size for MLS or international play.
shinatoo wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 9:42 am
Arrowhead is getting remodeled to accommodate soccer. So if they stay there or rebuild there, or anywhere else, the stadium will be built for soccer too, just like every other NFL stadium has been for decades. My guess is within 15 years SKC moves back into Arrowhead.
But, wouldn't a combination SKC/Chiefs stadium produce enough events combined to make it viable for an urban center? That's 40 games of soccer and 25 of football along with concerts during the summer. That's starting to get close to how many events a Royals stadium has in a year. Maybe, instead of trying to lure the Royals downtown we should be looking to spend more money to build a retractable roof "New Arrowhead" that could also grab events like a Final Four and Super Bowl.
Not sure where the 25 NFL games come from. 9-11 home games a season plus a max of 3 postseason games.
MLS has 17 home dates a year.
I'm not arguing the merits of staying at TSC or moving elsewhere. I can see the benefits and drawbacks to both.
shinatoo wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 11:30 am
Not sure where the 25 NFL games come from. 9-11 home games a season plus a max of 3 postseason games.
Yeah, probably 25 events total including concerts, preseason, regular season and postseason. Might get more events if it was downtown like Monster Jam that have been at TMobile. But, let’s say the K right now gets 85 events a year. A stadium with Chiefs/SKC could easily get that along with some ‘big fish’ events that would really market the city.
Was listening to a podcast from last week where Jon Ketz says he thinks the Royals are just simply waiting on the Chiefs at this point, and that the Chiefs will present their idea sometime this year. Then they’ll probably vote in April, he says.
TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 3:43 pm
SKC will not be moving back into Arrowhead. Never happening in a million years.
I said a NEW Arrowhead downtown and only if soccer demand reaches the point where the number of seats would be logical. Soccer stadiums in Europe are actually larger than the current Arrowhead capacity and still sell out every game. Most are also in close proximity or in the urban core.
FangKC wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 3:12 am
If Hunt considered Clay County at all, it's more likely Arrowhead Stadium would get built next to Worlds of Fun instead of in the municipality of NKC. That way Hunt could seek financial support from Clay County as well as KCMO, since that WOF site is still within Kansas City limits. The WOF parking lots could be used since the amusement park is closed down for most of the football season, and there are hotels nearby.
TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 3:43 pm
SKC will not be moving back into Arrowhead. Never happening in a million years.
I said a NEW Arrowhead downtown and only if soccer demand reaches the point where the number of seats would be logical. Soccer stadiums in Europe are actually larger than the current Arrowhead capacity and still sell out every game. Most are also in close proximity or in the urban core.
Arrowhead is 76,416. There are only 9 Football stadiums in Europe that have higher capacity. That includes Moscow.
TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 3:43 pm
SKC will not be moving back into Arrowhead. Never happening in a million years.
I said a NEW Arrowhead downtown and only if soccer demand reaches the point where the number of seats would be logical. Soccer stadiums in Europe are actually larger than the current Arrowhead capacity and still sell out every game. Most are also in close proximity or in the urban core.
Arrowhead is 76,416. There are only 9 Football stadiums in Europe that have higher capacity. That includes Moscow.
What's your point? There's only 3 teams in the NFL with a greater capacity.
You said, "Soccer stadiums in Europe are actually larger than the current Arrowhead". I was pointing out that only a small % of soccer stadiums in Europe are actually larger than the current Arrowhead. Considering 98 "Premier" clubs (English Premier, German Bundesliga, French Ligue 1, Spanish LaLiga, and Italian Serie A) the 9 European stadiums larger than Arrowhead represent a smaller percentage of stadiums than the 4 in the NFL. Two stadiums are not even "Premier League" venues, so it's only 7.
There are only two European stadiums larger than Met Life, the largest NFL stadium, Wembley and Camp Nou.
My guess is 40k will be the average attendance in the MLS in 10 years, and you will see many cities utilizing their NFL stadiums for MLS. I count six MLS teams that are not in NFL cities. 9 if you count the Canadian clubs. 6 MLS clubs currently play in NFL/CFL stadiums and none have plans for separate stadiums. 23 clubs in NFL/CFL, 6 already use the NFL/CFL venue leaving 17 potential moves, or about half the league.
Total capacity is also not apples to apples. US stadiums have significantly more premium seating, drink rails, and food & beverage vs. Europe. Some of the historic Euro stadiums have near 0.
I’ll take your 40,000 capacity in 10 years for MLS as probably about right. In 20 years, I think it will grow closer to the capacity of the average NFL team when the US starts getting the best players in the world vs some of the worst. Which is the whole point I was trying to make. There is this divergence between the sports where combination stadiums will be the norm. The next stadium we build beyond this round should likely be foe both SKC and the Chiefs and would make an urban location viable because of the increased, combined number of games. Perhaps, we should jump the shark for an urban NFL location now anticipating SKC being a future tenant. I wouldn’t be surprised if you start seeing NFL teams start to purchase the MLS teams in their cities to build synergy and capture the value of the stadiums they’ve already built.
