Downtown Baseball Stadium

[Metro]

The Royals arent moving from the metro. With that said I hope the downtown vote fails

[beautyfromashes]

The Royals arent moving from the metro. With that said I hope the downtown vote fails

Right, cause there are is not enough open lots to hold back for future construction. We probably should have at least 100 years of empty lots and parking lots to convert before approving such a big project that would take so many of them. It’d be a shame to build up downtown and not leave the next generations the wide open spaces we have now. It’s for the children!

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I genuinely can’t grasp the mentality that the status quo for the current location is acceptable.

[Metro]

The Royals arent moving from the metro. With that said I hope the downtown vote fails

Right, cause there are is not enough open lots to hold back for future construction. We probably should have at least 100 years of empty lots and parking lots to convert before approving such a big project that would take so many of them. It’d be a shame to build up downtown and not leave the next generations the wide open spaces we have now. It’s for the children!

*Yawn* more tired trope from the pass anything crowd. A new stadium with a ballpark village will hurt PNL, we are going to pony up with the Chiefs.

[Metro]

I genuinely can’t grasp the mentality that the status quo for the current location is acceptable.

Right we better spend billions on the Royals to move there. Impossible to develope it without that and clearly its been a pressing need to develope the outter side of downtown since were finished with everything else.

[Cratedigger]

I genuinely can’t grasp the mentality that the status quo for the current location is acceptable.

Right we better spend billions on the Royals to move there. Impossible to develope it without that and clearly its been a pressing need to develope the outter side of downtown since were finished with everything else.

It has never not been a sea of parking lots my entire life.
Maybe it’s not impossible to develop that area, but the status quo in East Village is not acceptable either

[Anthony_Hugo98]

I genuinely can’t grasp the mentality that the status quo for the current location is acceptable.

Right we better spend billions on the Royals to move there. Impossible to develope it without that and clearly its been a pressing need to develope the outter side of downtown since were finished with everything else.

The only thing that the ownership team has mentioned asking for from the public is an extension of the stadium tax. They’ve repeatedly stated that they will be paying for the all components outside of the stadium themselves.

The current landowners of the EV won’t do anything until the Royals have decided on what their doing, and those lots very likely won’t be developed anytime soon if the Royals vote fails. Pretending that these empty lots that create a multiblock stretch of lifeless nothingness is somehow good for the city and the Stadium should remain where is it’s a wild take to continue to perpetuate on a forum of Urbanists and Development enthusiasts.

[phuqueue]

The team might not have specified what other public money they're seeking, but they want more public money than the existing stadium tax can provide, so I think it's a little misleading, even if it is in an extremely literal sense "true," to say that the only public money the team has mentioned is extending that tax. They're expecting to go (approximately) halfsies on what they peg as a $2 billion project, and you aren't going to wring a billion dollars out of the current tax (especially not once it is split with the Chiefs). There will be more public money, even if the sources have not yet been identified in public statements.

And paying for everything aside from the stadium isn't a sweetener, it's the very least they can do -- why should the public directly fund a private, for-profit development? The Royals should at least pay for that, even if they aren't going to pay for their own stadium. But if it really is so desirable to live next to a baseball stadium, if a baseball stadium really is such a shot in the arm for organic urban development in the surrounding neighborhood (I remain skeptical of this, but then that would call into question the value of doing this project in the first place), then it seems like all the more reason for the entire project to be privately funded. Let the baseball stadium drive up the value of the neighboring development, then let the Royals capture that higher value to subsidize the cost of the stadium themselves. This is the model that, for example, transportation companies in East Asia use with great success, but our eagerness to transform public money into private profits is why nothing actually works in this country.

[KC_Ari]

They worded it carefully to only say public money from 'Jackson County'. That leaves the city, state, other counties in the region, etc. And I would fully expect some sort of incentivized deal arranged for the non-stadium portions.

I still read it as only wanting direct public support for the stadium portion (So roughly 500mil) with other incentives like TIF for the district half. I'm holding off on making an evaluation of the merit of any of their requests until they actually have a plan to present.

[langosta]

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[phuqueue]

Not sure they've ever explicitly said it would be half and half, but they've called it a $2 billion project and said they would kick in "at least" $1 billion (don't feel like going back to find links myself, but they're buried earlier in this thread). With as few details as have been publicly revealed so far, we're all just reading tea leaves, but I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that if they were expecting to kick in significantly more than $1 billion, they wouldn't hesitate to tout that higher number instead.

[KC_Ari]

It was a very rough estimate/reading the tea leaves since the Royals are silent. The Jackson county renovation tax was $425 million when it passed in 2006, so $212.5 million for the Royals with a renewal if it is split 50/50 with the Chiefs without other public funds.

[beautyfromashes]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/05/ ... akers.html
Las Vegas county looks to be paying $125M and 30 years in property tax exemption for a 30,000 seat stadium on the strip. Should be a good standard for Jackson County to follow.

[KC_Ari]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/05/ ... akers.html
Las Vegas county looks to be paying $125M and 30 years in property tax exemption for a 30,000 seat stadium on the strip. Should be a good standard for Jackson County to follow.

That also mentions $180M from the state of Nevada in the form of tax credits.

Per both reports, the agreed-upon deal includes a total of around $380MM in public money heading to the project. That is composed of $180MM from the state in transferable tax credits, with $90MM to be repaid over time from stadium revenues.

I'd be very surprised if MO would provide anything close to that amount since they didn't for the Cardinals. I guess the saving grace of both the NKC and EV sites are that they are in federal opportunity zones.

[Metro]

I genuinely can’t grasp the mentality that the status quo for the current location is acceptable.

Right we better spend billions on the Royals to move there. Impossible to develope it without that and clearly its been a pressing need to develope the outter side of downtown since were finished with everything else.

The only thing that the ownership team has mentioned asking for from the public is an extension of the stadium tax. They’ve repeatedly stated that they will be paying for the all components outside of the stadium themselves.

The current landowners of the EV won’t do anything until the Royals have decided on what their doing, and those lots very likely won’t be developed anytime soon if the Royals vote fails. Pretending that these empty lots that create a multiblock stretch of lifeless nothingness is somehow good for the city and the Stadium should remain where is it’s a wild take to continue to perpetuate on a forum of Urbanists and Development enthusiasts.

I dont care about Urbanist and Development enthusiasts. Downtown has plenty of other areas that need infill first the focus should be on that along with developement along the new street car line, and keeping the Chiefs in KC which all also attracr bigger events. The city will be more than fine if the Royals move across the river downtown will get plenty of business from it.

[Metro]

Did anyone here the governors comments on Pete Mundanes show?

[langosta]

.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Right we better spend billions on the Royals to move there. Impossible to develope it without that and clearly its been a pressing need to develope the outter side of downtown since were finished with everything else.

The only thing that the ownership team has mentioned asking for from the public is an extension of the stadium tax. They’ve repeatedly stated that they will be paying for the all components outside of the stadium themselves.

The current landowners of the EV won’t do anything until the Royals have decided on what their doing, and those lots very likely won’t be developed anytime soon if the Royals vote fails. Pretending that these empty lots that create a multiblock stretch of lifeless nothingness is somehow good for the city and the Stadium should remain where is it’s a wild take to continue to perpetuate on a forum of Urbanists and Development enthusiasts.

I dont care about Urbanist and Development enthusiasts. Downtown has plenty of other areas that need infill first the focus should be on that along with developement along the new street car line, and keeping the Chiefs in KC which all also attracr bigger events. The city will be more than fine if the Royals move across the river downtown will get plenty of business from it.

What areas are you referencing? The North Loop lots that are all owned by commerce, who won’t relinquish control no matter the price? The crossroads lots that are split between 3-4 separate land owners, all of which intend to land bank, and have starting prices in excess is $250/sqft for some of these lots.

Knocking out a nearly 10 block area with direct development of the stadium and surrounding residential, commercial and office would only further encourage spin-off and adjacent Dev. No one’s paying these inflated land values yet, but lower the availability and increase the activation of downtown even more? It becomes more lucrative to outside investment, and the prices become more justified.

You can not care about the Urbanist and Dev enthusiasts all you want, but the folks on here have a pretty damned good grasp and understanding of this issue, as those interests and ideals interline quite a bit with the fields that tend to make these projects happen. Don’t know why you seem so hostile on this idea, but a downtown stadium and ensuing development would far and away benefit downtown and have knock on effects that would be of immeasurable benefit.

[Chris Stritzel]

I dont care about Urbanist and Development enthusiasts. Downtown has plenty of other areas that need infill first the focus should be on that along with developement along the new street car line, and keeping the Chiefs in KC which all also attracr bigger events. The city will be more than fine if the Royals move across the river downtown will get plenty of business from it.

Clearly you care enough to be on a forum full of urbanist and development enthusiasts.

Seriously, your posts on this subject scream the same old KC thinking that is very well documented on this forum. That thought screwed Kansas City out of growth in population and subsequent tax base for years on end. And as the city finally gets on track, people of your mindset think it would be better to push the Royals to North KC in the hope of filling in the lots in downtown with development.

The Royals going downtown will do multiple things at once including filling lots with mixed-usages, bringing thousands of additional visitors downtown per game, and boost the downtown economy through development and visitors spending money at restaurants and bars. It’s the perfect storm and only someone who’s shortsighted would think otherwise.

The Royals moving to downtown KC presents a once in a half century opportunity to guide the future of development on the eastern side of downtown and into Paseo West. Will we continue to let it rot and hope that developers develop it with housing and office spaces? Or do we take advantage of the opportunity put in front of us now to get this out of the way now and lead to a quicker victory as a result?

Think in broader terms, not just narrow terms of “downtown needs more housing along the streetcar”, because, while that’s true, it’s also true that downtown won’t get more housing along the streetcar line (where property values are higher) until the blocks around the edges are built on.

[GRID]

If the Royals don't choose East Village, I wonder if that opens up EV for a new Chiefs stadium. May as well. It will take decades to build EV out with apartments if it ever happens (not a very desirable area for residential.) You still have quite bit of empty land to build in the river market, west downtown, north loop crossroads, crown center etc. I don't see EV developing much if a stadium doesn't happen there. It's too much of an island between highways and gov buildings.

But where would the Royals go other than EV? Maybe the KC Star location or north loop? The NKC location seems very odd and counter productive, but it would be better than staying at the TSC I guess. Jackson County east of 435 outside of Lee's Summit and Blue Springs is disaster.