Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
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normalthings
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by normalthings »

Simon is buying the best case Plaza owner
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

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normalthings wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:29 pm Simon is buying the best case Plaza owner
Maybe some knowledge on mixed use developments trickles up from Jamestown
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Highlander »

With all the changes going on at the Plaza, will the string of vacant storefronts east of Pennsylvania on the south side of Nichols Road be filled (Victoria Secret et al spot)? Seems like that should be one of the more desirable spots on the Plaza. I wonder if the Capital One Cafe is earmarked for that spot? Is a Levi's Store still potentially in the works?
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Cratedigger »

Highlander wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:00 am With all the changes going on at the Plaza, will the string of vacant storefronts east of Pennsylvania on the south side of Nichols Road be filled (Victoria Secret et al spot)? Seems like that should be one of the more desirable spots on the Plaza. I wonder if the Capital One Cafe is earmarked for that spot? Is a Levi's Store still potentially in the works?
The cafe is earmarked for 430 Nichols Rd I think
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by msmith011 »

normalthings wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:29 pm Simon is buying the best case Plaza owner
Yep. Simon malls are well run from my experience and they have an understanding of both indoor and open air lifestyle centers, the latter of which is what the Plaza is/wants to be. Plus they have deep relationships with top-tier retailers. For example, when I look at where Gucci recently opened stores in the past year, they're Simon centers: Austin, Charlotte, Indianapolis, etc.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

A problem is... they are a mall operator. And not doing well financially. The Plaza needs to become more mixed use now but they may not be in good enough shape to invest a healthy amount for something like converting Nichols Rd to a real open Plaza.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:52 am A problem is... they are a mall operator. And not doing well financially. The Plaza needs to become more mixed use now but they may not be in good enough shape to invest a healthy amount for something like converting Nichols Rd to a real open Plaza.
It’s all pointless if the city won’t let development happen in and around
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by msmith011 »

Highlander wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:00 am With all the changes going on at the Plaza, will the string of vacant storefronts east of Pennsylvania on the south side of Nichols Road be filled (Victoria Secret et al spot)? Seems like that should be one of the more desirable spots on the Plaza. I wonder if the Capital One Cafe is earmarked for that spot? Is a Levi's Store still potentially in the works?
The Victoria's Secret/Pink space is 10,500+ square feet and the neighboring Bath & Body Works space is 2,900+ square feet. I haven't seen any permits/plans filed for these spots, but given the combined size it could be broken up into smaller spaces or go to one tenant. Zara stores are quite large and would be perfect, in my opinion. No word on Levi's.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Cratedigger »

msmith011 wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:02 pm
Highlander wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:00 am With all the changes going on at the Plaza, will the string of vacant storefronts east of Pennsylvania on the south side of Nichols Road be filled (Victoria Secret et al spot)? Seems like that should be one of the more desirable spots on the Plaza. I wonder if the Capital One Cafe is earmarked for that spot? Is a Levi's Store still potentially in the works?
The Victoria's Secret/Pink space is 10,500+ square feet and the neighboring Bath & Body Works space is 2,900+ square feet. I haven't seen any permits/plans filed for these spots, but given the combined size it could be broken up into smaller spaces or go to one tenant. Zara stores are quite large and would be perfect, in my opinion. No word on Levi's.
Idk if this is still their ideology but Zara has said they won’t expand to the Midwest USA. The people there wear larger sizes that don’t work with their European supply chain

I think an Aritzia would be successful on the plaza
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

normalthings wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:09 am
earthling wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:52 am A problem is... they are a mall operator. And not doing well financially. The Plaza needs to become more mixed use now but they may not be in good enough shape to invest a healthy amount for something like converting Nichols Rd to a real open Plaza.
It’s all pointless if the city won’t let development happen in and around
Q brought up shutting down part of Nichols. It's a start.

The hardest part is height requirements but many other Capex improvements could still be made if owner could fund it. Building a midsize residential with a new functional Moorish (publicly accessible) tower taller than rest might pass more easily.

And changing out 6 or so retail for broader night life wouldn't involve city.

The path forward is still just a mall.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

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A group of community leaders want to create the Plaza Council Association, a well-funded, nonprofit organization similar to the Downtown Council to work collaboratively on the Plaza's behalf. From my impression, the Downtown Council seems to have been a positive for downtown KCMO. Some big successes made possible by an organization that can continue to push forward big ideas as they pass through multiple stakeholder groups. Also I've met a few of the group involved in this proposed Plaza steering committee. Each are incredibly passionate about KC and a few are StrongTowns advocates.

But I'm young. So for those that have seen more, what are your thoughts?

https://flatlandkc.org/news-issues/conc ... lub-plaza/
recommended to-do list includes keeping its streets and crosswalks safe; maintaining landscaping; repairing streets and sidewalks; ensuring fountains are working; providing clear signage for parking, and creating and maintaining a pedestrian zone.

On the security front, recommendations include increased security patrols at the Plaza, its garages and along Brush Creek; better coordination with city police; policies for the homeless and panhandling, and considering a curfew for unaccompanied youth after 6 p.m.

To make the Plaza more vibrant, she suggests more appealing retailers; more open spaces with movies, concerts and markets; limited street vendors; more outdoor dining places and closed-off streets, and inviting a brewery or distillery.
Besides Marshall, other steering committee members are Tom McGee, a developer with VanTrust Real Estate; Dennis Strait, an architect at Gould Evans; Tyler Enders, principal of Made in KC; urban strategist Beth Zollars, and entrepreneur Matthew Mellor.

Westbrook said the Country Club Plaza that the proposed association wants to usher into a new century goes beyond the dozen blocks planned by developer J.C. Nichols that began opening shops in 1923.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by earthling »

Depending on how well organized and if shown to be successful this decade, could open the opportunity for Plaza to be sold off in pieces in the future. A downside to splitting off Plaza into pieces is possible loss of Plaza vibe cohesion. If this Council can establish the cohesion, it offsets that issue. The Plaza can operate more organically if sold off per block.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by normalthings »

The single greatest action would be to up some the surrounding areas and allowing projects to get approved
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Cratedigger »

normalthings wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:26 pm The single greatest action would be to up some the surrounding areas and allowing projects to get approved
Seems like they agree
In Marshall’s PowerPoint presentation at the Sulgrave meeting, there were several critical bullet points describing the current state of the Plaza:

Some new store openings lack the draw and interest of the traditional Plaza retail audience, and short-term leases and vacancies leave long-time visitors and neighborhood resident concerned about the future of the Plaza.

Locals often comment that there’s “nothing to do” on the Plaza.

Some developers, who traditionally have sought opportunities in and around the Plaza, are discouraged by unnecessarily long and drawn out fights to get city and neighborhood approval to build.

Deferred maintenance on hardscapes and landscaping is hampering the Plaza and Brush Creek.

A rise in crime and assaults, in and around the Plaza, keeps visitors and local residents away.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by empires228 »

Cratedigger wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:22 pm
msmith011 wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:02 pm
Highlander wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:00 am With all the changes going on at the Plaza, will the string of vacant storefronts east of Pennsylvania on the south side of Nichols Road be filled (Victoria Secret et al spot)? Seems like that should be one of the more desirable spots on the Plaza. I wonder if the Capital One Cafe is earmarked for that spot? Is a Levi's Store still potentially in the works?
The Victoria's Secret/Pink space is 10,500+ square feet and the neighboring Bath & Body Works space is 2,900+ square feet. I haven't seen any permits/plans filed for these spots, but given the combined size it could be broken up into smaller spaces or go to one tenant. Zara stores are quite large and would be perfect, in my opinion. No word on Levi's.
Idk if this is still their ideology but Zara has said they won’t expand to the Midwest USA. The people there wear larger sizes that don’t work with their European supply chain

I think an Aritzia would be successful on the plaza
To say that about Zara is ignoring that they're in suburban Cleveland and Chicago.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by atticus23 »

empires228 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:29 pm
Cratedigger wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:22 pm
msmith011 wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:02 pm

The Victoria's Secret/Pink space is 10,500+ square feet and the neighboring Bath & Body Works space is 2,900+ square feet. I haven't seen any permits/plans filed for these spots, but given the combined size it could be broken up into smaller spaces or go to one tenant. Zara stores are quite large and would be perfect, in my opinion. No word on Levi's.
Idk if this is still their ideology but Zara has said they won’t expand to the Midwest USA. The people there wear larger sizes that don’t work with their European supply chain

I think an Aritzia would be successful on the plaza
To say that about Zara is ignoring that they're in suburban Cleveland and Chicago.
Or maybe Zara realized to their honor that Midwest USA will always need bigger sizes in the lands of Deep Dish pizza and chili covered spaghetti (Cinci, not Cleveland) scrapping plans to expand; pun intended.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by dukuboy1 »

Cratedigger wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:09 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:26 pm The single greatest action would be to up some the surrounding areas and allowing projects to get approved
Seems like they agree
In Marshall’s PowerPoint presentation at the Sulgrave meeting, there were several critical bullet points describing the current state of the Plaza:

Some new store openings lack the draw and interest of the traditional Plaza retail audience, and short-term leases and vacancies leave long-time visitors and neighborhood resident concerned about the future of the Plaza.

Locals often comment that there’s “nothing to do” on the Plaza.

Some developers, who traditionally have sought opportunities in and around the Plaza, are discouraged by unnecessarily long and drawn out fights to get city and neighborhood approval to build.

Deferred maintenance on hardscapes and landscaping is hampering the Plaza and Brush Creek.

A rise in crime and assaults, in and around the Plaza, keeps visitors and local residents away.
I agree witht he bolded part of this post. Would be nice to have governing board that can compromise with the needs of residents, the City, and developers to move the Plaza forward and still keep it's charm. It is a delicate balance but one that can be done with the correct leadership. It seems now there are 2 groups basically on the extreme ends and whoever yells the loudest will be heard.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by empires228 »

atticus23 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:38 pm
empires228 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:29 pm
Cratedigger wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:22 pm

Idk if this is still their ideology but Zara has said they won’t expand to the Midwest USA. The people there wear larger sizes that don’t work with their European supply chain

I think an Aritzia would be successful on the plaza
To say that about Zara is ignoring that they're in suburban Cleveland and Chicago.
Or maybe Zara realized to their honor that Midwest USA will always need bigger sizes in the lands of Deep Dish pizza and chili covered spaghetti (Cinci, not Cleveland) scrapping plans to expand; pun intended.

I just looked and they're in Columbus and Cleveland. KC and St. Louis wouldn't be a long shot. They're also at the Mall of America.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by TheUrbanRoo »

Plaza is keeping the lights on this till Feb. 19th in honor of their 100th anniversary.

Why can't we keep them this long every year? It seems kinda silly to only have such a popular item on for only few weeks of the year when it's literally just flipping a light switch.
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Re: Plaza move-ins (ongoing)

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

UMKC Roo wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 10:10 pm Plaza is keeping the lights on this till Feb. 19th in honor of their 100th anniversary.

Why can't we keep them this long every year? It seems kinda silly to only have such a popular item on for only few weeks of the year when it's literally just flipping a light switch.
Scarcity and exclusivity drive demand
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