OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

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KCPowercat
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

If north loop changes and bringing down 9 way isn't "something" man I don't know what could be. Those are huge for the downtown neighborhoods. Yes more than how fast people zip around downtown if they don't want to be going downtown. There was nothing romantic about coming across the buck bridge just to wait to turn right to keep going on 35.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by UMKC Roo »

The one thing I like about the new bridge is that you should have better view of downtown when driving than the old one did. And when the old bridge is removed you can see it all with no barrier.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by moderne »

Wrong. No DT view when driving unless you have x ray vision to see through the new north bound span that is higher than the southbound.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by beautyfromashes »

I love when Grid gets pissed off. The hard truth starts flying out. :)
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by dukuboy1 »

I'm very much for lowering grade on HWY 9 and connecting the East & West sides of RIvermakret/Columbus Park. I liked the renderings they have shown on that.

I'm also a big fan of removing the North Loop as well, or doing something different with it. However I'm not 100% sure how that will work to access I70. With the amount of industrial businesses & heavy truck traffic coming out of Northtown & East Bottoms accessing I70 to the West it is going to take some very detailed and imaginative interstate re-working. Basically the entire East side of the loop downtown would have to handle about 95% of the traffic now from the North on I29/I35 (less anyone going into downtown. That would require a total makeover of everything, there is room to do it but man what a mess. Plus with cap on 670 south loop you have no way to expand it, width wise.

That traffic will need to go somewhere and it won't magically go away or be less, especially as the Northland grows and the fact that 2 major interstates use it as through points. I35 is a NAFTA trade route and one handful of Canada To Mexico Interstate routes. I'm for the removal but a big if not bigger job would be needed to improve the interstate access on the East End
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by GRID »

KCPowercat wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:57 pm If north loop changes and bringing down 9 way isn't "something" man I don't know what could be. Those are huge for the downtown neighborhoods. Yes more than how fast people zip around downtown if they don't want to be going downtown. There was nothing romantic about coming across the buck bridge just to wait to turn right to keep going on 35.
MoDot and Kdot just rebuilt the Lewis and Clark viaduct back to its 1950's glory all seven lanes of it. What makes you think MoDot is really serious about removing the north loop when they just did that? That viaduct certainly doesn't have the traffic volumes to justify such a wide bridge. I mean one positive is that it could actually accommodate two dedicated transit lanes with zero impact to traffic.

Yes Route 9 needs to be at grade. But so did 169/Broadway. 90% of any traffic issues was because of the people trying to access the loop from Broadway. Take away that access and no more traffic issues. There are only about 45 other places people can get access to the loop downtown. If you are trying to get from the Northland to JoCo or wherever, then use the interstates. It's like 3 minutes longer to go around from KCI. Or you can come into downtown and take surface streets and see some of the city while doing it. There is no reason to have high speed direct connections to 169. And if you are going to do it then at least build a cool bridge that is an attraction to pedestrians.

I just don't see the point of maintaining the west loop, the north loop, or lewis and clark as freeways. And both 169 and 9 should be city streets as soon as their bridge decks land south of river.

This a dead horse. All you can do is move on. But I don't see MoDot doing anyting proper with downtown so I hope KCMO watches everything else they touch very carefully (north loop removal, south loop cap, east loop/stadium etc.) And I hope if they do make Route 9 at grade, the intersections don't end up looking like something in Lee's Summit.
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:35 pm I love when Grid gets pissed off. The hard truth starts flying out. :)
haha, That bridge is just one of KC's few iconic structures and the city had a chance to really redo not only the bridge, but tie the downtown core to the river market and riverfront. I just think they failed pretty miserably at everything other than that precious movement to and from I-35 which should have gone away.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by GRID »

dukuboy1 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:59 pm I'm very much for lowering grade on HWY 9 and connecting the East & West sides of RIvermakret/Columbus Park. I liked the renderings they have shown on that.

I'm also a big fan of removing the North Loop as well, or doing something different with it. However I'm not 100% sure how that will work to access I70. With the amount of industrial businesses & heavy truck traffic coming out of Northtown & East Bottoms accessing I70 to the West it is going to take some very detailed and imaginative interstate re-working. Basically the entire East side of the loop downtown would have to handle about 95% of the traffic now from the North on I29/I35 (less anyone going into downtown. That would require a total makeover of everything, there is room to do it but man what a mess. Plus with cap on 670 south loop you have no way to expand it, width wise.

That traffic will need to go somewhere and it won't magically go away or be less, especially as the Northland grows and the fact that 2 major interstates use it as through points. I35 is a NAFTA trade route and one handful of Canada To Mexico Interstate routes. I'm for the removal but a big if not bigger job would be needed to improve the interstate access on the East End
All interstate traffic should be routed on the east loop. There is plenty of room to widen that. That freeway is never going away. Rebuild it with the stadium development and try to cover as much of it as possible. They should have made the new Bond Bridge 8 lanes at least. It was dumb not to. But it should still be able to handle the traffic most of the time.

670 can carry all the traffic too. 8 lanes through there is fine. The problem with 670 is the southwest corner of the loop and 70 through traffic going down to one lane. It would take a total rebuild, but that can be fixed using the same footprint of the existing interchange. The bridges that crisscross there just need to be rebuilt so 670 can maintain more lanes west of Bartle hall.

The west loop is pointless and you don't even have access to the west bottoms from the Lewis and Clark viaduct. Any truck traffic to and from fairfax and west bottoms can easily use the 670 exits and the north/south 70 segment in KCK which also has almost no traffic now.

With all the freeways meeting downtown, it will always be a little slow. You are never going to fix all that and make it flow like the Grandview triangle without destroying even more of downtown. Just need to get rid of half it and make the other half more robust (and then cover it up).

Trying to maintain all that access is just crazy. It's not needed. People would use other routes. That's why 169 should have been removed from the loop, not enhanced and upgraded to yet another freeway.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by im2kull »

It's cute that ya'll think the North Loop removal and 9 hwy redo are happening and that this "bridge" was the prerequisite. LOL

Talk about rose colored lens..
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by FlippantCitizen »

GRID's on fire. I have to agree on most everything he's saying. "This is the first step to North Loop Removal." Well why do you say that? "MoDot told us so." Basically sums it up for me. None of this is good or makes sense for anyone but car commuters and especially thru traffic.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by Cratedigger »

Shoutout to Collison for reposting this article today. I was just wondering the status of these. Feel like they need to be a must now that saving the old bridge is dead. I also wonder if there is opportunity here to tie into the Greenline initiative?

https://cityscenekc.com/regional-skate ... -bridge-3/

—A regional skate park under the approaches to the new bridge in the River Market. It has the support of MoKan Skates, the founders of the Harrison Street DYI Skate Park in Columbus Park. The report cites other examples around the country of similar skate parks built beneath bridges. Estimated cost: $500,000- to $750,000.

—Installing signage along pedestrian and bicycle access routes beneath the new bridge and the nearby River Front Heritage Trail that inform people about the legacy of Buck O’Neil, the Kansas City Monarch baseball great. The Negro League Baseball Museum worked with the committee on the idea. Estimated cost: $250,000.

—Building a stair structure at Third and Broadway to allow pedestrians easier and quicker access to the new bridge, which will include a lane for pedestrians and bicyclists. A separate ped/bike ramp already is part of the project. Estimated cost: $500,000.

—Creating public art including sculptures and murals that would help memorialize Buck O’Neil. The committee wants the artwork to be installed on both sides of the new bridge. Estimated cost: $1 million.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by dukuboy1 »

im2kull wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:07 pm It's cute that ya'll think the North Loop removal and 9 hwy redo are happening and that this "bridge" was the prerequisite. LOL

Talk about rose colored lens..
I was asking the question more of the how not really whether it will happen or not. Do I think it will happen within the next 10yrs? I'll say it has about a 10% chance. Going up after that, assuming more people are living downtown and there is a return to a more robust business presence. The current WFH environment is not going away but IMO there will be changes that employers will put in place to allow for flexibly & have people return to onsite work. Will it be the same before COVID? Most likely not but that is ok because I think there will be a good balance and one coming within the next year or so.

But I do not see much happening on this front until Downtown and River Market show even more growth and they are almost forced to do something. Short term I could see them tearing out a few of the exit ramps that are just terrible/dangerous ramps now. Otherwise I would not hold my breath for anything to happens for a a long time.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by FangKC »

It won't happen until we see surface lots disappear in the North and East loops. As long as the North Loop is parking lots, there is no pressure for state/city budgeting money for it.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

The state makes money in the long run and remove short term maintenance needs. Definite incentive.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by TheBigChuckbowski »

Yeah, it's a maintenance liability now. Turn it into sellable/taxable land and it becomes an asset. Financially, North Loop removal should absolutely happen.

I also don't buy the argument that it shouldn't happen until the parking lots are filled in. 1. Those lots are under the control of basically one company, if they don't want to develop them, they don't want to develop them. We shouldn't hold back a good decision for downtown because one land owner isn't doing anything with their parking lots. 2. The highway is causing that land to be less desirable for development.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

Got on the NB west loop for first time since it reopened. Surprised they didn't renovate more of it while it was closed. the exit to 69 will be to the far right then Broadway then 70 EB on far left so that should work out pretty well. We are now up to exit 2Z. That's a LOT of exits in one stretch.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by moderne »

Could you see what they are doing to the rock escarpment that was excavated to fit the new 69 lane? It appears like some sort of blown concrete in portions,and a stone retaining wall below?
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by WoodDraw »

Maybe I've forgotten the discourse, but my memory of this is that modot offered a bunch of pretty shit options, including repairing the current bridge and closures or replacement that would have fucked our ability to change the north loop.

I don't remember anyone being like oh wow, they nailed this. It was just relief that modot didn't fuck over any chance of us doing what we wanted in the future.

Blame modot and the powers that be for being shit all you want, but let's not create a fiction on how this happened. Modot wanted the cheapest solution possible and we kicked in enough money to avoid the worst. I don't know what else we could have done.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by UMKC Roo »

I remember at the time just being glad it kept the north loop removal option viable and alive
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by Cratedigger »

Wasn’t paying attention at the time.

Whatever. It’s done.

Hope they help “enhance” it with a skate park, art, etc near the base
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Re: OFFICIAL - Buck O'Neil Bridge

Post by enough »

By what definition of "bridge" is the collection of highway ramps currently under construction even a bridge? It's a cluster of highway ramps with a river somewhere below. If I were Buck O'Neil, I'd be deeply offended.
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