Downtown Baseball Stadium

[shinatoo]

With Copaken owning two key blocks in this connection, I imagine a development there will address this concern.

Unless copaken gives up the ghost on their office towers, I don’t see them developing in the loop anytime soon. I wish someone would buy out their properties so we can mitigate the devastated city blocks they own

Can't the city pass some legislation to force land bankers into shitting or getting off the pot?

Value assessment could go up enough to make taxes on empty lots or parking painful.

[DColeKC]

Not really sure about that orientation. I would guess they would want home plate to point towards existing development and P&L to make a closer walk. Of course, if the Royals are going to have their own separate entertainment district maybe they want to face towards it and further away from existing entertainment. That probably is really bad news to Cordish and P&L. Curious how they would respond to direct competition.

Cordish has had conversations over the years on this, even put money into the pot long ago for a study. More people downtown is better for everyone and I don't envision the Royals doing much more than a few bars that are activated on game days. Not a full-blown entertainment district but instead focus on office and residential. You'd think the Royals themselves could occupy some office space but the Cardinals still office out of Busch Stadium even with a brand new office building across the street.

If they propose a entertainment area with a similar vibe to PNL, the city should and would push back. This doesn't work if it hurts or ruins other area's we've put money into, especially tax payers money.

[moderne]

I assume the new stadium would not be named Kauffman?

[FlippantCitizen]

Carl’s Jr. Park. (We water the grass with Brawndo)

[dukuboy1]

I read & heard a lot of opinions on this topic and the impact it could have downtown, good & bad especially in regards to will it take away from P&L if they build another entertainment district, etc.

I would think that if you build in the EV you create a stronger neighborhood over in that area and help connect things East to West. Honestly a feel that P&L has competition with Crossroads and does fine. But I like the idea of really being able to now have distinct neighborhoods and area of town to visit and be able to walk to them or use public transit to explore.

However my main point (sorry for the tangent) I have yet to see anyone anyone frame this as a NET gain of workers to downtown. The Royal, I believe, would have about 100 full time M-F employees who would now be working downtown. These are front office personnel, maintenance workers, etc. that are there year round. Plus that number goes up in season when you add in the various hospitality workers, game day employees etc. for 82 home dates over 6 months. Then factor in media people, support staff for players and basically everyone doing their jobs not just being fans. Currently that all happens out at the TSC which is an island basically and nothing around and with this relocating in downtown you can opportunities.

That's going to be a major boost to the surrounding areas and of course 6 months of fans being down there for home dates creates a lot of opportunity for the entire area down there.

Just wanted to think of that perspective as I had yet to see ppl talking about the positive impact of the Royals becoming a downtown employe not just a sports entertainment venue. That alone makes it's impact bigger than the Sprint/T-Mobile center because there is a major league franchise coming with the stadium.

[beautyfromashes]

If they propose a entertainment area with a similar vibe to PNL, the city should and would push back. This doesn't work if it hurts or ruins other area's we've put money into, especially tax payers money.

Sherman seemed pretty clear in his messaging that he wanted their own entertainment district. I do wonder how this would be feasible having two downtown. But, we have to get P&L paying for itself. And we’ve argued about this already a lot. Cordish has been given a good infrastructure base. They’ve built a few nice buildings to bring people living into that district. They have to move faster. They have to work in parallel vs serial. One building at a time is dragging the demand and missing the pace for the downtown growth numbers needed to turn it around. I know they’re conservatively harvesting their crops year after year, but it’s time for multiple towers cranes at a time to not be so dramatically fearful for them.

[DColeKC]

If they propose a entertainment area with a similar vibe to PNL, the city should and would push back. This doesn't work if it hurts or ruins other area's we've put money into, especially tax payers money.

Sherman seemed pretty clear in his messaging that he wanted their own entertainment district. I do wonder how this would be feasible having two downtown. But, we have to get P&L paying for itself. And we’ve argued about this already a lot. Cordish has been given a good infrastructure base. They’ve built a few nice buildings to bring people living into that district. They have to move faster. They have to work in parallel vs serial. One building at a time is dragging the demand and missing the pace for the downtown growth numbers needed to turn it around. I know they’re conservatively harvesting their crops year after year, but it’s time for multiple towers cranes at a time to not be so dramatically fearful for them.

I understand that take on moving faster, maybe this will be the push needed. I think some of this comes down to simple project management abilities with Cordish being very, very busy right now with so many major projects across the country. Yet, still family owned and operated by a smaller group of people. I feel that's a good thing for this city but could impact the speed of progress.

I think you'll see the project across the highway and Four Light going up at the same time or with some overlap.

[alejandro46]

TBH I have no qualms about a seperate "Entertainment District" for DT Baseball. Something smaller sized with 1 bar, more tables and large TVs basically BallPark Village. P&L is more of a grouping of different restaurants, clubs and bars. In real estate clustering is real and more types of options lifts all boats. Driving more traffic downtown + residents + workers will be good for PNL too.

[WoodDraw]

People made the same argument about Westport (well Westport owners did) when p&l was being built.

Cordish has some very privileged space and they’ll be fine. It would be great to have another developer actually building things downtown.

[beautyfromashes]

TBH I have no qualms about a seperate "Entertainment District" for DT Baseball. Something smaller sized with 1 bar, more tables and large TVs basically BallPark Village. P&L is more of a grouping of different restaurants, clubs and bars. In real estate clustering is real and more types of options lifts all boats. Driving more traffic downtown + residents + workers will be good for PNL too.

It definitely would increase the vibrancy of DT with people walking between the districts instead of parking in the garage and staying fairly close to one point. Streetcar should do the same where people will travel between Westport/Plaza and DT. Should make the entire core more walkable and boost the feeling of safety. That seems to be a major concern right now with suburban types from what I read on discussions about the DT stadium. Would have to think that all this brings more possibility for an anchor tenant at the Sprint Center (still that for me) in the not-to-distant future.

[DaveKCMO]

Quick reminder that an East Village (or North Loop) stadium would be inside the existing streetcar district. While the stadium itself wouldn't be subject to assessment if it's owned by the County, it will generate a lot of sales tax revenue and any adjacent development would be subject to assessment (including any paid public parking lots not owned by a government).

The 18th & Vine site is not in the district at all, while the East Crossroads site is inside the far east boundary of the district but only partially in the assessment zone.

[beautyfromashes]

Quick reminder that an East Village (or North Loop) stadium would be inside the existing streetcar district. While the stadium itself wouldn't be subject to assessment if it's owned by the County, it will generate a lot of sales tax revenue and any adjacent development would be subject to assessment (including any paid public parking lots not owned by a government).

The 18th & Vine site is not in the district at all, while the East Crossroads site is inside the far east boundary of the district but only partially in the assessment zone.

That's a good point. Increased money paid into the district could possibly allow for its expansion.

[smh]

I wonder if anyone involved in this project is looking at the ULI Hines results from last year when the competition was in KC? Lots of great ideas in there for how to build a real neighborhood with a ballpark.

[GRID]

Not really sure about that orientation. I would guess they would want home plate to point towards existing development and P&L to make a closer walk. Of course, if the Royals are going to have their own separate entertainment district maybe they want to face towards it and further away from existing entertainment. That probably is really bad news to Cordish and P&L. Curious how they would respond to direct competition.

Cordish has had conversations over the years on this, even put money into the pot long ago for a study. More people downtown is better for everyone and I don't envision the Royals doing much more than a few bars that are activated on game days. Not a full-blown entertainment district but instead focus on office and residential. You'd think the Royals themselves could occupy some office space but the Cardinals still office out of Busch Stadium even with a brand new office building across the street.

If they propose a entertainment area with a similar vibe to PNL, the city should and would push back. This doesn't work if it hurts or ruins other area's we've put money into, especially tax payers money.

This. Not only that, but a district the size of the P&L would not survive in East Village. I would think they will build up the area with residential and maybe a total of 50-100k of retail space. The P&L District will do very well before and after games even if it were not that close to the stadium. Honestly being a mile or so away would likely benefit it since anything directly across the street from a stadium would likely be difficult to get into on game days.

I'm sort of just basing this on Camden Yards and Nats Park where I have been to dozens of games, but also just about any other urban ballpark. There is not that much directly next to Coors Field etc. There is a sweet spot distance from the stadiums that works well. Too close and it's either too chaotic during game days or a dead zone every other hour of the year.

If the stadium were in EV or Xroads, the P&L District would be a perfect distance for the bigger entertainment district while a much smaller stadium/game day oriented district/plaza next to the stadium would compliment it.

[DColeKC]

TBH I have no qualms about a seperate "Entertainment District" for DT Baseball. Something smaller sized with 1 bar, more tables and large TVs basically BallPark Village. P&L is more of a grouping of different restaurants, clubs and bars. In real estate clustering is real and more types of options lifts all boats. Driving more traffic downtown + residents + workers will be good for PNL too.

It's a good thing no matter where it goes for sure. I can for sure see them including a few bars or restaurants but ideally, not a larger indoor area like Bally's Live in Ballpark Village. The revenue they generate on game days is great but Cordish has a full-time team who has to work tirelessly to make that place financially work when there are no baseball games across the street. I don't think the Royals want to get into that business and it's the secret to the ones that work in existing baseball districts.

[GRID]

There is a LOT of pushback for moving the stadium downtown. I knew it would be a lot, but wow. I wonder if there is a possibility where the Royals decide to build a new stadium at the TSC or renovate again.

Unless the Royals come up with a plan that really wows the public and so far the renderings don't do that, I don't see this passing a public vote even if just extending the current tax.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I don't really know why they're calling this an "entertainment" district or village. It just seems like a village. Apartments, retail, some food & drink. I don't see this being too similar to P&L other than it has residential. Which is fine.

[TheSmokinPun]

There is a LOT of pushback for moving the stadium downtown. I knew it would be a lot, but wow. I wonder if there is a possibility where the Royals decide to build a new stadium at the TSC or renovate again.

Unless the Royals come up with a plan that really wows the public and so far the renderings don't do that, I don't see this passing a public vote even if just extending the current tax.

Haha, okay. I've seen the usual amount but like every poll 610 & 810, and other sports outlets, have done has it at like 80% approve to go downtown.

[TheUrbanRoo]

I actually haven't seen it getting that bad. There's alot of people out there voicing support. 810 radio guy said most of the people texting in were supportive. It's probably just the voices freaking out against it the loudest because they see their view dwindling down the drain right now.

[DColeKC]

There is a LOT of pushback for moving the stadium downtown. I knew it would be a lot, but wow. I wonder if there is a possibility where the Royals decide to build a new stadium at the TSC or renovate again.

Unless the Royals come up with a plan that really wows the public and so far the renderings don't do that, I don't see this passing a public vote even if just extending the current tax.

I'm 150% in favor of John Sherman threatening to move the team. Push back is understandable but it's not coming from informed people. The parking and traffic comments alone are enough to make my head explode (to the pleasure of some people on here).