Politics

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
aknowledgeableperson
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Re: Politics

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:56 am I used the word socialism because there’s a large group on the far-left who want to take more from companies and individuals to put towards more social programs. There’s a line and if you go too far with taxing and social programs, negative consequences start to happen. Democratic socialist long term goal is to replace capitalism with socialism and they’re committed to this long term goal. Take power from corporations and give it to the people sounds great in theory.

I find myself leaning right but very turned off by several far-right ideas.
"there’s a large group on the far-left" define "large group". How large of a group are you talking about? There are a few elected officials in the Senate and House and likely a few others at state and local levels but the numbers are few, far, far fewer than elected officials who some may call White Nationalists, Neo-Nazi, etc. Guess you don't remember reading about the high tax rates of the 50's and how the economy was then.
What "negative consequences" are you talking about?

"
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:05 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:18 pm This topic is way too far over my head.
That’s been evident for a while
At least I’m not a coward and actually try to discuss difficult topics. It must be so hard never engaging in conversations and only posting photos.

I guess that’s what people do when every topic is over their head and the only time they speak up is to get a quick insult in.

The topic of how to fix race relations in this country is over the top of nearly everyone’s heads considering a viable solution has yet to be offered up or realized.

Why do you read anything I post if it so clearly bothers you? Just keep posting photos and let the adults deal with the difficult issues.
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:06 am
DColeKC wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:56 am I used the word socialism because there’s a large group on the far-left who want to take more from companies and individuals to put towards more social programs. There’s a line and if you go too far with taxing and social programs, negative consequences start to happen. Democratic socialist long term goal is to replace capitalism with socialism and they’re committed to this long term goal. Take power from corporations and give it to the people sounds great in theory.

I find myself leaning right but very turned off by several far-right ideas.
"there’s a large group on the far-left" define "large group". How large of a group are you talking about? There are a few elected officials in the Senate and House and likely a few others at state and local levels but the numbers are few, far, far fewer than elected officials who some may call White Nationalists, Neo-Nazi, etc. Guess you don't remember reading about the high tax rates of the 50's and how the economy was then.
What "negative consequences" are you talking about?

"
I'll compromise and say that the physical amount of people on the far-left who push for a socialist form of government is small, but they're so loud it seems as if they're a large group. They've helped split the democratic party a bit along the way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/29/maga ... ocrat.html

I don't know of any far-right elected officials describing themselves as white nationalists or neo-nazi unlike those on the far-left who proudly claim to be Democratic Socialists. The only person in politics that comes to mind right way is Steven Miller who was an advisor to Trump. He wrote some emails and for sure seems to be a white nationalist. Any elected officials I'm missing?

As for the 1950's economy and high tax rates. Many factors went into that including coming out of WWII, TV's in homes, large companies merging and needing even more workers etc etc. Also, while the tax rates on the wealthy were higher, there were barely any wealthy people in 1950's compared to today's situation. Playing devils advocate, one could argue that the decrease in taxes has lead to the wealth this country has and if the high tax rates of the 1950's had stayed in effect, we could have been worse off for it. The poverty rate today is half of what it was in the 1950's despite the high taxes of the time.

The biggest negative consequences as proven in other countries is slower economic growth, lack of motivation by individuals due to lesser rewards and a decrease in entrepreneurialism.
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Re: Politics

Post by Link2 »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:05 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:05 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:18 pm This topic is way too far over my head.
That’s been evident for a while
At least I’m not a coward and actually try to discuss difficult topics. It must be so hard never engaging in conversations and only posting photos.

I guess that’s what people do when every topic is over their head and the only time they speak up is to get a quick insult in.

The topic of how to fix race relations in this country is over the top of nearly everyone’s heads considering a viable solution has yet to be offered up or realized.

Why do you read anything I post if it so clearly bothers you? Just keep posting photos and let the adults deal with the difficult issues.
Again, the insults are like clock-work
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Re: Politics

Post by grovester »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am I'll compromise and say that the physical amount of people on the far-left who push for a socialist form of government is small, but they're so loud it seems as if they're a large group. They've helped split the democratic party a bit along the way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/29/maga ... ocrat.html
Didn't look very split last Tuesday.
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am I don't know of any far-right elected officials describing themselves as white nationalists or neo-nazi unlike those on the far-left who proudly claim to be Democratic Socialists. The only person in politics that comes to mind right way is Steven Miller who was an advisor to Trump. He wrote some emails and for sure seems to be a white nationalist. Any elected officials I'm missing?
Democratic Socialists or Nazis? Both sides much?

MTG and Paul Gosar would qualify.
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am As for the 1950's economy and high tax rates. Many factors went into that including coming out of WWII, TV's in homes, large companies merging and needing even more workers etc etc. Also, while the tax rates on the wealthy were higher, there were barely any wealthy people in 1950's compared to today's situation. Playing devils advocate, one could argue that the decrease in taxes has lead to the wealth this country has and if the high tax rates of the 1950's had stayed in effect, we could have been worse off for it. The poverty rate today is half of what it was in the 1950's despite the high taxes of the time.

The biggest negative consequences as proven in other countries is slower economic growth, lack of motivation by individuals due to lesser rewards and a decrease in entrepreneurialism.
lol barely any wealthy people in the 1950s. Only took 100 mil to be equal to todays billionaire.
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:06 am
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:05 am
TheLastGentleman wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:05 pm

That’s been evident for a while
At least I’m not a coward and actually try to discuss difficult topics. It must be so hard never engaging in conversations and only posting photos.

I guess that’s what people do when every topic is over their head and the only time they speak up is to get a quick insult in.

The topic of how to fix race relations in this country is over the top of nearly everyone’s heads considering a viable solution has yet to be offered up or realized.

Why do you read anything I post if it so clearly bothers you? Just keep posting photos and let the adults deal with the difficult issues.
Again, the insults are like clock-work
In response to an insult. You seem to give yourself and others who insult me a pass, but only want to call me out for hurling insults back. I get it, you're biased.
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

grovester wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:00 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am I'll compromise and say that the physical amount of people on the far-left who push for a socialist form of government is small, but they're so loud it seems as if they're a large group. They've helped split the democratic party a bit along the way.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/29/maga ... ocrat.html
Didn't look very split last Tuesday.
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am I don't know of any far-right elected officials describing themselves as white nationalists or neo-nazi unlike those on the far-left who proudly claim to be Democratic Socialists. The only person in politics that comes to mind right way is Steven Miller who was an advisor to Trump. He wrote some emails and for sure seems to be a white nationalist. Any elected officials I'm missing?
Democratic Socialists or Nazis? Both sides much?

MTG and Paul Gosar would qualify.
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am As for the 1950's economy and high tax rates. Many factors went into that including coming out of WWII, TV's in homes, large companies merging and needing even more workers etc etc. Also, while the tax rates on the wealthy were higher, there were barely any wealthy people in 1950's compared to today's situation. Playing devils advocate, one could argue that the decrease in taxes has lead to the wealth this country has and if the high tax rates of the 1950's had stayed in effect, we could have been worse off for it. The poverty rate today is half of what it was in the 1950's despite the high taxes of the time.

The biggest negative consequences as proven in other countries is slower economic growth, lack of motivation by individuals due to lesser rewards and a decrease in entrepreneurialism.
lol barely any wealthy people in the 1950s. Only took 100 mil to be equal to todays billionaire.
Democratic Party Split? - Ok, whatever you want to say. I don't think the recent election results were because of such a great and unified party.

MTG and Paul Gosar - GOP has condemned them and distanced themselves from people like this. Shame on people for voting them in but point taken.

1950's - I'll use a page out of Link2's book. Do some research.

https://rooseveltinstitute.org/2017/08/ ... the-1950s/

"By today’s standards, there were many fewer rich households in the 1950s than there are now—in fact, almost none. The rich people from the 1950s that Greenberg is comparing to the rich of today were what we would now call the upper middle class—thus, not an apples-to-apples comparison. Had there been any 2017-style rich people in those days, they would likely have faced an effective tax rate near that confiscatory statutory rate of 91%."
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Re: Politics

Post by Link2 »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am
aknowledgeableperson wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:06 am
DColeKC wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:56 am I used the word socialism because there’s a large group on the far-left who want to take more from companies and individuals to put towards more social programs. There’s a line and if you go too far with taxing and social programs, negative consequences start to happen. Democratic socialist long term goal is to replace capitalism with socialism and they’re committed to this long term goal. Take power from corporations and give it to the people sounds great in theory.

I find myself leaning right but very turned off by several far-right ideas.
"there’s a large group on the far-left" define "large group". How large of a group are you talking about? There are a few elected officials in the Senate and House and likely a few others at state and local levels but the numbers are few, far, far fewer than elected officials who some may call White Nationalists, Neo-Nazi, etc. Guess you don't remember reading about the high tax rates of the 50's and how the economy was then.
What "negative consequences" are you talking about?

"
I don't know of any far-right elected officials describing themselves as white nationalists or neo-nazi unlike those on the far-left who proudly claim to be Democratic Socialists. The only person in politics that comes to mind right way is Steven Miller who was an advisor to Trump. He wrote some emails and for sure seems to be a white nationalist. Any elected officials I'm missing?
Although no longer in office, it's pretty evident Trump is a white nationalist
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:40 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am
aknowledgeableperson wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:06 am

"there’s a large group on the far-left" define "large group". How large of a group are you talking about? There are a few elected officials in the Senate and House and likely a few others at state and local levels but the numbers are few, far, far fewer than elected officials who some may call White Nationalists, Neo-Nazi, etc. Guess you don't remember reading about the high tax rates of the 50's and how the economy was then.
What "negative consequences" are you talking about?

"
I don't know of any far-right elected officials describing themselves as white nationalists or neo-nazi unlike those on the far-left who proudly claim to be Democratic Socialists. The only person in politics that comes to mind right way is Steven Miller who was an advisor to Trump. He wrote some emails and for sure seems to be a white nationalist. Any elected officials I'm missing?
Although no longer in office, it's pretty evident Trump is a white nationalist
I think Trump is trash. I think he was a nationalist for sure. I don’t think he was a white nationalist but I certainly understand how many people with certain beliefs believe that.
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Re: Politics

Post by grovester »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:24 pm
MTG and Paul Gosar - GOP has condemned them and distanced themselves from people like this. Shame on people for voting them in but point taken.
MTG will likely get plum committee assignments under McCarthy. Some distance!
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Re: Politics

Post by Link2 »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:43 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:40 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:59 am

I don't know of any far-right elected officials describing themselves as white nationalists or neo-nazi unlike those on the far-left who proudly claim to be Democratic Socialists. The only person in politics that comes to mind right way is Steven Miller who was an advisor to Trump. He wrote some emails and for sure seems to be a white nationalist. Any elected officials I'm missing?
Although no longer in office, it's pretty evident Trump is a white nationalist
I think Trump is trash. I think he was a nationalist for sure. I don’t think he was a white nationalist but I certainly understand how many people with certain beliefs believe that.
Tucker Carlson is a white nationalist. Not elected -- but one of the most influential voices on the Right.
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:59 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:43 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:40 pm

Although no longer in office, it's pretty evident Trump is a white nationalist
I think Trump is trash. I think he was a nationalist for sure. I don’t think he was a white nationalist but I certainly understand how many people with certain beliefs believe that.
Tucker Carlson is a white nationalist. Not elected -- but one of the most influential voices on the Right.
I’m more hesitant to slap the white nationalist on people but doesn’t change the fact that Tucker and people like him are just mouthpieces for their preferred political party.
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Re: Politics

Post by Link2 »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:47 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:59 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:43 pm

I think Trump is trash. I think he was a nationalist for sure. I don’t think he was a white nationalist but I certainly understand how many people with certain beliefs believe that.
Tucker Carlson is a white nationalist. Not elected -- but one of the most influential voices on the Right.
I’m more hesitant to slap the white nationalist on people but doesn’t change the fact that Tucker and people like him are just mouthpieces for their preferred political party.
I mean he is clearly a white nationalist. And there aren't two sides to all debates. One side takes its cues from these despicable folks, while the other does not. There is no equivalent to either of them on the Left.
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:04 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:47 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:59 pm

Tucker Carlson is a white nationalist. Not elected -- but one of the most influential voices on the Right.
I’m more hesitant to slap the white nationalist on people but doesn’t change the fact that Tucker and people like him are just mouthpieces for their preferred political party.
I mean he is clearly a white nationalist. And there aren't two sides to all debates. One side takes its cues from these despicable folks, while the other does not. There is no equivalent to either of them on the Left.
Warning: This is NOT an insult, but do you realize you don't exactly come across as neutral? Where does someone like Joy Reid fit into this? Is she not as bad because she doesn't have the same viewership? What about all the media folks who carry water for the democrats?

This is me asking honestly for a response, not attempting to insult anyone.
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Re: Politics

Post by Link2 »

DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:24 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:04 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:47 pm

I’m more hesitant to slap the white nationalist on people but doesn’t change the fact that Tucker and people like him are just mouthpieces for their preferred political party.
I mean he is clearly a white nationalist. And there aren't two sides to all debates. One side takes its cues from these despicable folks, while the other does not. There is no equivalent to either of them on the Left.
Warning: This is NOT an insult, but do you realize you don't exactly come across as neutral? Where does someone like Joy Reid fit into this? Is she not as bad because she doesn't have the same viewership? What about all the media folks who carry water for the democrats?

This is me asking honestly for a response, not attempting to insult anyone.
Absolutely, I'm not neutral -- never claimed to be. You cannot equate those two and consider yourself a serious person. That does not deserve a response.

And I'm not looking for an argument here. Let's just drop it.
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Re: Politics

Post by TheSmokinPun »

Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:37 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:24 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:04 pm

I mean he is clearly a white nationalist. And there aren't two sides to all debates. One side takes its cues from these despicable folks, while the other does not. There is no equivalent to either of them on the Left.
Warning: This is NOT an insult, but do you realize you don't exactly come across as neutral? Where does someone like Joy Reid fit into this? Is she not as bad because she doesn't have the same viewership? What about all the media folks who carry water for the democrats?

This is me asking honestly for a response, not attempting to insult anyone.
Absolutely, I'm not neutral -- never claimed to be. You cannot equate those two and consider yourself a serious person. That does not deserve a response.

And I'm not looking for an argument here. Let's just drop it.
Joy Reid is not leftist and is probably more just to the left of center but also didn't call for people to be attacked or scaremongering about kids. I'm far from a fan of MSNBC or CNN but they really never did anything like Fox News has.
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:37 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:24 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:04 pm

I mean he is clearly a white nationalist. And there aren't two sides to all debates. One side takes its cues from these despicable folks, while the other does not. There is no equivalent to either of them on the Left.
Warning: This is NOT an insult, but do you realize you don't exactly come across as neutral? Where does someone like Joy Reid fit into this? Is she not as bad because she doesn't have the same viewership? What about all the media folks who carry water for the democrats?

This is me asking honestly for a response, not attempting to insult anyone.
Absolutely, I'm not neutral -- never claimed to be. You cannot equate those two and consider yourself a serious person. That does not deserve a response.

And I'm not looking for an argument here. Let's just drop it.
I'm not equating Joy Reid to Tucker but let's not pretend there are no cable tv hosts who do the work for liberals. Tucker and Hannity IMHO are shock jocks, always have been. I've only seen handpicked clips from their shows but it's enough to clearly show they're all about ratings and not the truth.

They are opinion hosts after all.
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

TheSmokinPun wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:00 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:37 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:24 pm

Warning: This is NOT an insult, but do you realize you don't exactly come across as neutral? Where does someone like Joy Reid fit into this? Is she not as bad because she doesn't have the same viewership? What about all the media folks who carry water for the democrats?

This is me asking honestly for a response, not attempting to insult anyone.
Absolutely, I'm not neutral -- never claimed to be. You cannot equate those two and consider yourself a serious person. That does not deserve a response.

And I'm not looking for an argument here. Let's just drop it.
Joy Reid is not leftist and is probably more just to the left of center but also didn't call for people to be attacked or scaremongering about kids. I'm far from a fan of MSNBC or CNN but they really never did anything like Fox News has.
I dislike all mainstream media but follow the ratings. Fox News has a formula and it crushes the competition. I used to force myself to watch a bit off the big 3 but just can't handle any of it anymore.
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Re: Politics

Post by phuqueue »

DColeKC wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:18 pm This topic is way too far over my head. I understand American has a race problem and I understand implying that the black community has things to work on can be perceived as a racist comment. Of course I don't intend it to be that way but it's no different than me saying white people have a lot of things to fix within their culture as well. What if the answer is everything? America still has things to fix as a country, white people still have things to fix (including breeding more racist) and minorities have cultural issues to address that only they can address. I do know one race telling a different race they need to fix something will result in positive change 0% of the time.
I'm not smart or eloquent enough to really explain this, especially in a message board post, but what is problematic isn't just "implying that the black community has things to work on." More fundamentally, it is the idea that there even is a monolithic "black community," apparently comprising all black people, who should be held responsible for the actions of other members of that community. The only thing that all black people intrinsically have in common is that they are black. I don't believe any individual is responsible for the actions of any other individual who is a total stranger to them. And when you argue that this community "has things to work on," you imply that the causes of and solutions to their problems lie within themselves and tacitly deny the role that racism and white supremacy have played in creating the material circumstances in which this "community" exists. You are ultimately saying that the "black community" has higher crime rates because something about being black simply makes you more predisposed to committing crimes. The "black community" has higher poverty rates because something about being black simply makes you less capable of achieving financial success. The "black community" has lower educational attainment because something about being black simply makes you less capable of achieving academic success. Etc etc etc. If someone believes that these things are biologically determined by race, then yes, that is racist. But if they are not racially determined like that, then we need to dig deeper than just saying that "the black community has things to work on."

It is also worth pointing out that the "black community," such as it exists, does "work on" things. There is no shortage of stories about people stepping up to try to clean up their neighborhoods, shut down criminal activity on their streets, improve their schools, and so on. But the "black community" lacks power in this country, so these are generally small-scale, hyper local projects with varying degrees of success. You can "work on" things all you want, but without the appropriate tools (capital, political power, etc), you are never going to scale that up to societal-level change.
My money management comment was applicable to all people. It's why you see poor people strike it rich and end up poor again. This isn't unique to any one race. I was getting at handing over large chunks of money and hoping it helps or simply to check the box won't help. Well, maybe it will help a very slight amount but not to the level I believe the majority of this country wants to see.
I mean, you also see poor people strike it rich and then stay rich. Rich people can become poor by being bad with money (though even rich people who are bad with money have so much help that they can often stay rich in spite of themselves), but poor people can't become rich just by being good with money, because you need money in the first place.
As for the 1950's economy and high tax rates. Many factors went into that including coming out of WWII, TV's in homes, large companies merging and needing even more workers etc etc. Also, while the tax rates on the wealthy were higher, there were barely any wealthy people in 1950's compared to today's situation. Playing devils advocate, one could argue that the decrease in taxes has lead to the wealth this country has and if the high tax rates of the 1950's had stayed in effect, we could have been worse off for it. The poverty rate today is half of what it was in the 1950's despite the high taxes of the time.
The poverty rate had already fallen to around its modern level by the mid-60s, but the top marginal rate remained as high as 70% into the 80s. I'm trying to remember what happened in the mid-60s that might have slashed the poverty rate independently of tax rates. It's right on the tip of my tongue. I can't quite remember but I think it might rhyme with "freight momiety." Does that sound familiar to anybody?
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Re: Politics

Post by im2kull »

Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:04 pm
DColeKC wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:47 pm
Link2 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:59 pm

Tucker Carlson is a white nationalist. Not elected -- but one of the most influential voices on the Right.
I’m more hesitant to slap the white nationalist on people but doesn’t change the fact that Tucker and people like him are just mouthpieces for their preferred political party.
I mean he is clearly a white nationalist. And there aren't two sides to all debates. One side takes its cues from these despicable folks, while the other does not. There is no equivalent to either of them on the Left.
Calling everyone a "White Nationalist".. just cause.. is about the dumbest thing I have heard on here. Use your words, Link2. Then again, you already stated that you're a leftist extremist.. so.. what else is there to say? You're the very thing you claim to hate.
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