New Chiefs Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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FlippantCitizen
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

Post by FlippantCitizen »

UMKC Roo wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:07 pm
FlippantCitizen wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:04 pm "East Crossroads" is kind of hiding the ball as to what people are really advocating for. Y'all want the stadium to come right up to Grand right? That's just the Crossroads. East Crossroads is east of Oak, at least IMO.
The streetscape around EV is just so horrifically bad. Imagine they put stadium with horrific EV streetscape *and* you don’t get any high-rise there either. It would be a very sad waste of potential for Royals stadium.

I don’t see how there is salvaging the EV situation unless there’s some high-rise to make up for lack of streetscape.
My priorities are probably different than yours. I'm totally cool if the Royals do some mid-rise housing adding residents inside the loop downtown without a marquee tower in phase one or even ever I couldn't honestly give a shit about towers, I care more about infill and density. I also don't need some beautiful streetscape around the stadium to be 100% there the same day the ballpark opens. The only places where stadium and streetscape coexist well are where they've been growing together for 100+ years. Stadiums create dead zones that need to be overcome either by time or by masterplanning. I'd rather see a large scale masterplan infill a completely empty part of DT rather than replace an area I already enjoy.The appeal of an urban stadium for me is the ability to access it easily by a mode other than personal vehicle, and to synergy with existing DT assets. EV achieves both of those criteria fine with out any potential to harm existing areas that are finding their own success.

Sidenote, I told my wife who is from Chicago about the push by some voices to put the ballpark in the Crossroads. Her immediate response was "you can't just recreate Wrigleyville by putting a stadium in the Crossroads." I could not have agreed more with her assessment.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:07 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:05 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:58 pm The Royals district should focus on low-rise residential and retail with a few sports bars mixed in. If it goes in EV the bars will likely be dead on non-game days.
“Low-rise” like Light 1-3?
No, those would be high-rise buildings unless you disagree with IBC definition.

I'm not saying the Royals should not also do high-rise apartments if they think the market can handle it and if they think they can compete. The smart money would be on low-rise residential though.
Why would the stadium not be able carry high-rise?!? They've said they want an entertainment area. There'd be at least 100 event days of some type and they need the traffic to carry their retail and food businesses. The only thing that would be worse than P&L would be distance to the streetcar line (which wasn't really met with open arms by Cordish at the beginning). I'd say the extra room is a big advantage for EV too. They could do larger, full block residential buildings that could justify lower rents than the Lights. The stadium needs to create their own market in the area. Would be a huge win for the city to meet the growing demand for residential downtown at a reasonable price. Just what DT needs.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:49 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:07 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:05 pm
“Low-rise” like Light 1-3?
No, those would be high-rise buildings unless you disagree with IBC definition.

I'm not saying the Royals should not also do high-rise apartments if they think the market can handle it and if they think they can compete. The smart money would be on low-rise residential though.
Why would the stadium not be able carry high-rise?!? They've said they want an entertainment area. There'd be at least 100 event days of some type and they need the traffic to carry their retail and food businesses. The only thing that would be worse than P&L would be distance to the streetcar line (which wasn't really met with open arms by Cordish at the beginning). I'd say the extra room is a big advantage for EV too. They could do larger, full block residential buildings that could justify lower rents than the Lights. The stadium needs to create their own market in the area. Would be a huge win for the city to meet the growing demand for residential downtown at a reasonable price. Just what DT needs.
We do need reasonably priced new residential downtown which is why I mentioned mid-rise apartment buildings. A new high-rise with ballpark views won't be reasonably priced and the light buildings are already top of the market. By opening day of this new stadium, Cordish would be in the middle of construction on 4L or possibly even farther along.

What would be flat out dumb is for the local tax payers to be paying for two entertainment districts both fighting for the same dollars. Royals need to something different and unique. Or just focus on a great stadium first and develop the surrounding areas in later phases.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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FlippantCitizen wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:28 pm
UMKC Roo wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:07 pm
FlippantCitizen wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:04 pm "East Crossroads" is kind of hiding the ball as to what people are really advocating for. Y'all want the stadium to come right up to Grand right? That's just the Crossroads. East Crossroads is east of Oak, at least IMO.
The streetscape around EV is just so horrifically bad. Imagine they put stadium with horrific EV streetscape *and* you don’t get any high-rise there either. It would be a very sad waste of potential for Royals stadium.

I don’t see how there is salvaging the EV situation unless there’s some high-rise to make up for lack of streetscape.
My priorities are probably different than yours. I'm totally cool if the Royals do some mid-rise housing adding residents inside the loop downtown without a marquee tower in phase one or even ever I couldn't honestly give a shit about towers, I care more about infill and density. I also don't need some beautiful streetscape around the stadium to be 100% there the same day the ballpark opens. The only places where stadium and streetscape coexist well are where they've been growing together for 100+ years. Stadiums create dead zones that need to be overcome either by time or by masterplanning. I'd rather see a large scale masterplan infill a completely empty part of DT rather than replace an area I already enjoy.The appeal of an urban stadium for me is the ability to access it easily by a mode other than personal vehicle, and to synergy with existing DT assets. EV achieves both of those criteria fine with out any potential to harm existing areas that are finding their own success.

Sidenote, I told my wife who is from Chicago about the push by some voices to put the ballpark in the Crossroads. Her immediate response was "you can't just recreate Wrigleyville by putting a stadium in the Crossroads." I could not have agreed more with her assessment.

You can't recreate Wrigleyville even with an unlimited budget in any city. That's not even the concept or idea I'd push for.

My #1 priority is synergy with existing downtown assets and #2 is accessibility. I'm backing off the crossroads idea because cheese lovers are not a group of people you want to do battle with! Seriously though, even though it would likely make for a much better long term success story, it's too complicated and I'll wait until more information comes out to push on it.

EV is a "OK" location, just not perfect. This is KC though and perfection doesn't exist and we have to take what we can get when we can get it.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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FlippantCitizen wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:28 pm I care more about infill and density. I also don't need some beautiful streetscape around the stadium to be 100% there the same day the ballpark opens.
I have, consistently, on this forum pounded the table to get more infill over big towers. So don't put me in that camp.

We don't need a Wrigleyville or Battery anywhere in downtown. We have that, it's called P&L. What we do need is a stadium that blends into the urban fabric. That is mostly about streetscape, not more chain entertainment & bars.

The reason we care so much about this stadium is because it has the potential to be an all-time game changer for KC -- if they do it correctly. What I imagine is a stadium where you can see active use on all sides of it across the street. A tower or two would be great but not necessary. If this is done correctly we are going to transform downtown to another level. What we have right now is a bunch of blank walls and lots on buildings that can't(?) be removed. This isn't going to make for a transformational district/stadium. There needs to be a plan to fix the streetscape or what's the point? If all you get is a stadium, blank walls, surface lots & another P&L type amenity...then we are only moving the ball forward 2/10 when we had the potential to move it forward 8/10 or more. Nothing else than North Loop has the chance to move the ball this much. That is why this can't be taken lightly. KC has to get something more than a stadium, blank streets & low rise out of this.

The reason why we better get towers if we have a shit streetscape is because then atleast we'll be getting *something* major out of this beyond the stadium. Also, towers are going to add many more residents downtown than low-rise.

This project needs to have a high bar, not a low one.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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normalthings wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:08 pm To be fair: A lot of people want to build around the PAC but Kauffman and related parties have always refused to sell their land or they block the construction of things to the south. EPC and Hotel Bravo are the first time these groups have ok’d something and even then it’s for projects at the far end of doable.

As long as EV Royals development fills up quickly, I am fine with Paseo West Chiefs taking longer to fully fill out. The ability to bring a venue of such a large size to downtown Kansas City is extremely exciting to me. I could see Sporting KC going into West Bottoms or another section of Paseo West allowing all to be connected by a single LRT line.
There's a lot to unpack here since I've seen this thread, but the first paragraph is true.

I'll have more to say to when I can write
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:16 pm You can't recreate Wrigleyville even with an unlimited budget in any city.
Again, North Loop offers a location surrounded by old, historic buildings that would make it feel surrounded and not isolated. Tear down the FlashCube building and two other buildings and you're good to go. It would also speed up replacement of the highway with the proper street grid.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:39 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:16 pm You can't recreate Wrigleyville even with an unlimited budget in any city.
Again, North Loop offers a location surrounded by old, historic buildings that would make it feel surrounded and not isolated. Tear down the FlashCube building and two other buildings and you're good to go. It would also speed up replacement of the highway with the proper street grid.
I'm very open to north loop location (it would be better than EV) but if they're not considering the site then I won't analyze it
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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UMKC Roo wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:35 am
beautyfromashes wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:39 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:16 pm You can't recreate Wrigleyville even with an unlimited budget in any city.
Again, North Loop offers a location surrounded by old, historic buildings that would make it feel surrounded and not isolated. Tear down the FlashCube building and two other buildings and you're good to go. It would also speed up replacement of the highway with the proper street grid.
I'm very open to north loop location (it would be better than EV) but if they're not considering the site then I won't analyze it
The Chiefs aren’t currently considering any location besides TSC.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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^Royals. North Loop could be large enough, but not for wanted entertainment district. Would connect to P&L by streetcar.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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The north loop doesn't exist.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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WoodDraw wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:32 am The north loop doesn't exist.
Central to Main (even Walnut) and 8th Street to the highway. Enough room for a "Wrigley-style" stadium with further expansion once/if the highway is removed.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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I think that requires buy in from Kansas and the feds
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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WoodDraw wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:06 pm I think that requires buy in from Kansas and the feds
All lots owned by the Kempers.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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beautyfromashes wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:16 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:06 pm I think that requires buy in from Kansas and the feds
All lots owned by the Kempers.
Yeah, I would find it hard to do in this case. But you do you! happy to have all plans explored.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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Ya'll thinking some new high rise buildings are going to magically pop up around a football or baseball stadium, or be included in the stadium construction, is comical. Do you NOT look at what has happened with stadium construction and the areas adjoining those properties over the last 70 years?

WHY do you think that things WILL be different here and that some massive high rises will be part of the deal? COMICAL.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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Maybe what we need is an office tower in the outfield?
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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normalthings wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:10 am Maybe what we need is an office tower in the outfield?
If we were given the option to take what was in that rendering from early 2020 or roll the rice, I would pick that rendering in a heartbeat.
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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im2kull wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:59 pm Ya'll thinking some new high rise buildings are going to magically pop up around a football or baseball stadium, or be included in the stadium construction, is comical. Do you NOT look at what has happened with stadium construction and the areas adjoining those properties over the last 70 years?

WHY do you think that things WILL be different here and that some massive high rises will be part of the deal? COMICAL.
I think it's the only way a DT baseball stadium gets approved and funded. We've moved past just doling out huge sums for a stadium on an "island". The peripheral development is a benefit both to the city because it brings residents to the core which is the cities major desire and produces a funding stream for the team to offset the cost of the stadium construction. If the Royals come to the city with an EV plan that is a standalone stadium surrounded by lots or garages, it's a no go(.)
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Re: New Chiefs Stadium

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im2kull wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:59 pm Ya'll thinking some new high rise buildings are going to magically pop up around a football or baseball stadium, or be included in the stadium construction, is comical. Do you NOT look at what has happened with stadium construction and the areas adjoining those properties over the last 70 years?

WHY do you think that things WILL be different here and that some massive high rises will be part of the deal? COMICAL.
I think the idea with this new downtown baseball stadium is to go at it with a master development plan to avoid Stadium island version 2.

Not sure any new high rise buildings will go up right away or ever, but they should be apart of the plan.

Now as far as a new football stadium or the Chiefs doing anything out at TSC, don't see it happening. Not residential anyway.
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