OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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AlkaliAxel
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by AlkaliAxel »

WoodDraw wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:33 pm I would be careful making all these statements until you know how much they're paying in rent.
Me being the one guy who makes these statements is also meant to neutralize the 10:1 ratio of doom to positive statements
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by FangKC »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:32 pm Can’t help but thinking if Waddell Reed had stayed to occupy this building that BCBS would’ve had Strata or TMobile site tower built for their new office.
More likely they would have built a new structure on the land they recently purchased from Union Station (the East Yards site) next to their existing building.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by AlkaliAxel »

FangKC wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:30 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:32 pm Can’t help but thinking if Waddell Reed had stayed to occupy this building that BCBS would’ve had Strata or TMobile site tower built for their new office.
More likely they would have built a new structure on the land they recently purchased from Union Station (the East Yards site) next to their existing building.
That would've been a positive as well. Left one on the table here.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by WoodDraw »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:11 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:33 pm I would be careful making all these statements until you know how much they're paying in rent.
Me being the one guy who makes these statements is also meant to neutralize the 10:1 ratio of doom to positive statements
Saying you want to go find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow isn't being positive, it's being an idiot.

Think of any project downtown that you like and then pull up the thread on this forum discussing it for years. There are a lot of people here that have dedicated more than that to accomplishing things they want.

You're the kid in the back that keeps saying, "are we there yet? Are we there yet?" over and over again.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by AlkaliAxel »

WoodDraw wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:38 am
AlkaliAxel wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:11 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:33 pm I would be careful making all these statements until you know how much they're paying in rent.
Me being the one guy who makes these statements is also meant to neutralize the 10:1 ratio of doom to positive statements
Saying you want to go find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow isn't being positive, it's being an idiot.

Think of any project downtown that you like and then pull up the thread on this forum discussing it for years. There are a lot of people here that have dedicated more than that to accomplishing things they want.

You're the kid in the back that keeps saying, "are we there yet? Are we there yet?" over and over again.
If you wanna disagree with a statement that's fine, but you don't have to be an asshole just because someone doesn't share your opinion
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by WoodDraw »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:03 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:38 am
AlkaliAxel wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:11 pm

Me being the one guy who makes these statements is also meant to neutralize the 10:1 ratio of doom to positive statements
Saying you want to go find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow isn't being positive, it's being an idiot.

Think of any project downtown that you like and then pull up the thread on this forum discussing it for years. There are a lot of people here that have dedicated more than that to accomplishing things they want.

You're the kid in the back that keeps saying, "are we there yet? Are we there yet?" over and over again.
If you wanna disagree with a statement that's fine, but you don't have to be an asshole just because someone doesn't share your opinion
You'll appreciate it in the long run. You can call it an opinion, but really it was just a hope and feeling and I'm happy to crush it for you.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by AlkaliAxel »

WoodDraw wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:56 pm You'll appreciate it in the long run. You can call it an opinion, but really it was just a hope and feeling and I'm happy to crush it for you.
I'm good, actually. And I still stand by my original statement which is completely reasonable and had been said by many others.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by FlippantCitizen »

The site of the current BCBS building with its extensive parking presents a really interesting opportunity. I’ll be interested what could happen with that space.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by Link2 »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:05 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:56 pm You'll appreciate it in the long run. You can call it an opinion, but really it was just a hope and feeling and I'm happy to crush it for you.
I'm good, actually. And I still stand by my original statement which is completely reasonable and had been said by many others.
Hey, I'm a fan of the optimism -- it's a nice change from much of the posts on here.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by DColeKC »

WoodDraw wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:38 am
AlkaliAxel wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:11 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:33 pm I would be careful making all these statements until you know how much they're paying in rent.
Me being the one guy who makes these statements is also meant to neutralize the 10:1 ratio of doom to positive statements
Saying you want to go find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow isn't being positive, it's being an idiot.

Think of any project downtown that you like and then pull up the thread on this forum discussing it for years. There are a lot of people here that have dedicated more than that to accomplishing things they want.

You're the kid in the back that keeps saying, "are we there yet? Are we there yet?" over and over again.
Sometimes I wonder who on this forum has actually impacted any development downtown and who just likes to talk about it? Nothing wrong with either but at the end of the day you've got your talkers and your doers.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by bspecht »

DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:42 pm Sometimes I wonder who on this forum has actually impacted any development downtown and who just likes to talk about it? Nothing wrong with either but at the end of the day you've got your talkers and your doers.
Many.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by DColeKC »

bspecht wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:04 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:42 pm Sometimes I wonder who on this forum has actually impacted any development downtown and who just likes to talk about it? Nothing wrong with either but at the end of the day you've got your talkers and your doers.
Many.
Really? I don’t get that feeling when discussing certain topics. Could just be ignorance on said topic. There are a few who clearly know what’s up and some who are peanut gallery status. I fall into that second category on a few topics myself.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by Cratedigger »

DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm
bspecht wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:04 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:42 pm Sometimes I wonder who on this forum has actually impacted any development downtown and who just likes to talk about it? Nothing wrong with either but at the end of the day you've got your talkers and your doers.
Many.
Really? I don’t get that feeling when discussing certain topics. Could just be ignorance on said topic. There are a few who clearly know what’s up and some who are peanut gallery status. I fall into that second category on a few topics myself.
I mean I'm peanut gallery for nearly everything on here but isn't that the point of this forum? Not everyone needs to developing to be part of the conversation.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by UMKC Roo »

Cratedigger wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:18 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm
bspecht wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:04 pm

Many.
Really? I don’t get that feeling when discussing certain topics. Could just be ignorance on said topic. There are a few who clearly know what’s up and some who are peanut gallery status. I fall into that second category on a few topics myself.
I mean I'm peanut gallery for nearly everything on here but isn't that the point of this forum? Not everyone needs to developing to be part of the conversation.
With some it's not that they're giving insight, it's just that they've clearly been so worn down by 90's & early 2000's letdowns that nothing is appeasing anymore, and it festers on even optimistic times.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by DColeKC »

Cratedigger wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:18 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm
bspecht wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:04 pm

Many.
Really? I don’t get that feeling when discussing certain topics. Could just be ignorance on said topic. There are a few who clearly know what’s up and some who are peanut gallery status. I fall into that second category on a few topics myself.
I mean I'm peanut gallery for nearly everything on here but isn't that the point of this forum? Not everyone needs to developing to be part of the conversation.
No I agree that you don’t need to be a mover and a shaker to have an opinion and be a part of the conversation. I think the comment above made it sound like all the old heads on here have done such great things for downtown when in reality, the most vocal haven’t actually done anything. And that’s fine but we shouldn’t be telling younger members of this forum to restrain their enthusiasm or that they’re idiots for wanting it all and wanting it now. Simply being involved in the discussion for decades doesn’t earn anyone a special badge.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by shinatoo »

DColeKC wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:46 am
Cratedigger wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:18 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm

Really? I don’t get that feeling when discussing certain topics. Could just be ignorance on said topic. There are a few who clearly know what’s up and some who are peanut gallery status. I fall into that second category on a few topics myself.
I mean I'm peanut gallery for nearly everything on here but isn't that the point of this forum? Not everyone needs to developing to be part of the conversation.
No I agree that you don’t need to be a mover and a shaker to have an opinion and be a part of the conversation. I think the comment above made it sound like all the old heads on here have done such great things for downtown when in reality, the most vocal haven’t actually done anything. And that’s fine but we shouldn’t be telling younger members of this forum to restrain their enthusiasm or that they’re idiots for wanting it all and wanting it now. Simply being involved in the discussion for decades doesn’t earn anyone a special badge.
I was just thinking about this the other day: Why did you join the Rag? Is that why you're still here? If not why now? (generally speaking, not directed at DoleKC specifically).

I joined to get early news on projects so I could position myself with the architects or developers to sell my services, but that was 20 years and two jobs ago. Now I'm here for that same reason to a minor degree, but mainly because I love this city, and honestly because I like to stir the pot every once and a while.

But I'm certainly part of the peanut gallery now and I doubt anyone really values my opinion or takes me too seriously, and I'm fine with that.

I do hate the long political rants. And when some people are super negative all the time. Or try to spam the board to control the narrative. But all of those people tend to bring value too.

I've only ever muted three people and none of them are on the forum anymore.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by UMKC Roo »

shinatoo wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:58 am
I've only ever muted three people and none of them are on the forum anymore.
The phrase that really irks me is “we already tried that back in 2001 and it didn’t work” as if urban core now is anywhere near the state it was back then.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by WoodDraw »

DColeKC wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:46 am
Cratedigger wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:18 pm
DColeKC wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm

Really? I don’t get that feeling when discussing certain topics. Could just be ignorance on said topic. There are a few who clearly know what’s up and some who are peanut gallery status. I fall into that second category on a few topics myself.
I mean I'm peanut gallery for nearly everything on here but isn't that the point of this forum? Not everyone needs to developing to be part of the conversation.
No I agree that you don’t need to be a mover and a shaker to have an opinion and be a part of the conversation. I think the comment above made it sound like all the old heads on here have done such great things for downtown when in reality, the most vocal haven’t actually done anything. And that’s fine but we shouldn’t be telling younger members of this forum to restrain their enthusiasm or that they’re idiots for wanting it all and wanting it now. Simply being involved in the discussion for decades doesn’t earn anyone a special badge.
It's not exactly what I meant. I'm sure I was too much of a dick which I'm trying to be better at, but come on it, it's not like you're careful on me when you think I'm wrong.

If someone thinks that Copaken should build a new spec tower, or cordish should pump out new towers all at once, and so on, that's all fine. But like it's also not going to happen and it gets a little exhausting reading the same comment over and over.

I don't really give a fuck about who's been here or not longer. My point was just look at a thread you care about and see how long it takes from when someone firsts posted about it until it opened.

We talk about development in years, not days or weeks. I welcome the enthusiasm, but also have seen people drive themself crazy on this forum. It's not healthy. (Raises hand)
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by DColeKC »

WoodDraw wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:58 pm
DColeKC wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:46 am
Cratedigger wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:18 pm

I mean I'm peanut gallery for nearly everything on here but isn't that the point of this forum? Not everyone needs to developing to be part of the conversation.
No I agree that you don’t need to be a mover and a shaker to have an opinion and be a part of the conversation. I think the comment above made it sound like all the old heads on here have done such great things for downtown when in reality, the most vocal haven’t actually done anything. And that’s fine but we shouldn’t be telling younger members of this forum to restrain their enthusiasm or that they’re idiots for wanting it all and wanting it now. Simply being involved in the discussion for decades doesn’t earn anyone a special badge.
It's not exactly what I meant. I'm sure I was too much of a dick which I'm trying to be better at, but come on it, it's not like you're careful on me when you think I'm wrong.

If someone thinks that Copaken should build a new spec tower, or cordish should pump out new towers all at once, and so on, that's all fine. But like it's also not going to happen and it gets a little exhausting reading the same comment over and over.

I don't really give a fuck about who's been here or not longer. My point was just look at a thread you care about and see how long it takes from when someone firsts posted about it until it opened.

We talk about development in years, not days or weeks. I welcome the enthusiasm, but also have seen people drive themself crazy on this forum. It's not healthy. (Raises hand)
I can understand and appreciate that take.
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Re: OFFICIAL - Waddell & Reed - 14th & Baltimore

Post by GRID »

WoodDraw wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:58 pm It's not exactly what I meant. I'm sure I was too much of a dick which I'm trying to be better at, but come on it, it's not like you're careful on me when you think I'm wrong.

If someone thinks that Copaken should build a new spec tower, or cordish should pump out new towers all at once, and so on, that's all fine. But like it's also not going to happen and it gets a little exhausting reading the same comment over and over.

I don't really give a fuck about who's been here or not longer. My point was just look at a thread you care about and see how long it takes from when someone firsts posted about it until it opened.

We talk about development in years, not days or weeks. I welcome the enthusiasm, but also have seen people drive themself crazy on this forum. It's not healthy. (Raises hand)
This.

I am sure some of you think I am a debbie downer, but if I didn't love KC, I would not post here and it would not have been myself and kcpowercat that had the idea to start this forum in the first place.

KC has really come a long way, but it's still a relatively slow growth city, not super slow, but slow/moderate. That's fine. It is what it is. It's also a city that is still way to oriented to suburban development. That's not fine and could be changed. It's also a city who's residents are extremely hard on developers but only in the urban core for some bizarre reason. Developers are treated like evil invaders there and that is also not fine and gets very frustrating. But you have to factor all that into how to figure out how long things will take to develop.

The track history of most development in urban KC is just a very very slow if it happens at all. I love KC, but having one tower crane up at a time in a city the size of KC is just not that great and it will take a very long time to really change the city. Even today, urban KC really struggles to compete with Johnson County. I don't think people there realize how much commercial development has and continues to occur there compared to other midsized metro areas. Downtown is way better, but it could and should be twice the size it is as far as class A office, hotels etc.

Maybe a downtown stadium will change that, but I don't think so because I said the same thing when they expanded Bartle (twice), built the PAC, built the P&L District and Sprint Center. But when you look at things, none of that has really caused much more development. Not a single developer has proposed a projects similar to a Cordish tower and it's five years between towers for them. Other than the Loews, hotel construction in downtown has been lackluster, and companies in JoCo are staying in JoCo. So what makes anybody think that a new Royals stadium is going to be surrounded by development? (and I mean real urban development, not just a few 5 over ones.

Then you STILL have a LOT of people in that metro that look down on the MO side and think the KS side is the future of the city and would welcome moving everything to village west and south OP with open arms. I have no idea why, but I just argued with half the internet trying to prove that all the chiefs do not live in Johnson County lol. I know, waste of time but that drives me nuts.

So it's hard to not be what I would call a realist. KC is a nice city, but it does take forever for it to change enough for most to even notice and you have to accept that.

And one more thing. I may not do much besides post on forums now, but when I lived in KC, I feel like I did everything I possibly could to make KC a better place and this is was back when KC was truly an embarrassing, decaying city. I was extremely active in the community and I really do think I played a role in sparking the initial wave of downtown revitalization.

Having said all that, KC is still a great city and I love it there. It's just not growing or changing as fast as people there think. If you get out and see the country, it's average at best and people that try to stop development need to realize that. It just seems like a lot because it's way more than
what was happening in downtown KC 20 years ago which was absolutely nothing.
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