I noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pmNotice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rulesChris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:56 pm Of those, only 4711 Belleview/Dylan was totally dead. Ashland just got delayed and changed hands. 3rd and Grand never died. Like the Lux Riverfront project, it just had to go through some side process before it could remerge. I believe that the same is happening to Mac's deal at Main and Armour.
3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Yes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pmI noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pmNotice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rulesChris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:56 pm Of those, only 4711 Belleview/Dylan was totally dead. Ashland just got delayed and changed hands. 3rd and Grand never died. Like the Lux Riverfront project, it just had to go through some side process before it could remerge. I believe that the same is happening to Mac's deal at Main and Armour.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
A momentum has stalled….. the number of projects has slowed quit a bit. Other cities have seen a lot of proposal, we haven’t really seen all that many tbhAlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:25 amYes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pmI noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pm
Notice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rules
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
^Permit momentum slowed down for KC metro overall, not just KCMO. But still in top 25 for YTD. We may see a catchup if such stalled projects move forward.
May Metro Permits
https://www.census.gov/construction/bps ... 202205.xls
May Metro Permits
https://www.census.gov/construction/bps ... 202205.xls
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
It's hard for me to see any new projects going through PIEA that would be subject to the affordability rules (i.e., not grandfathered into the old rules). Excepting those projects that are explicitly low-income (tax credit projects, etc.). Until then, you'll see the Port and RideKC seeing all new development requests. Kevin O'Neill has to be loving his current situation as THE power broker downtown.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:25 amYes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pmI noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pm
Notice that 2 of 3 are not incentivized and the 3rd is only moving again because they are getting incentives under the pre-ordinance rules
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
This is how I see it looking at things from the outside. Developers are going to have to jump through some major hoops and probably still have to go through the Port Authority etc. Major projects under this new affordable housing rule and with an anti development city council will be nearly impossible to get done. Especially in a city like KC where rents are still low and costs to build are rising.CrossroadsUrbanApts wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:32 amIt's hard for me to see any new projects going through PIEA that would be subject to the affordability rules (i.e., not grandfathered into the old rules). Excepting those projects that are explicitly low-income (tax credit projects, etc.). Until then, you'll see the Port and RideKC seeing all new development requests. Kevin O'Neill has to be loving his current situation as THE power broker downtown.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:25 amYes. I think we all agree the incentive changes aren't great. But we're making pretty good with what we've got so far from what I can tell. It's been 1.5 years since they voted to change incentive rules.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:03 pm
I noticed. The recent cases prove that incentivized projects are having a much harder time (as we all know).
I wish the city council there could understand that even with the tax breaks, most urban development makes financial sense.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Kevin O'Neil's "streetcar is an incentive" is the most laughable propaganda I have heard among the current council members by far lol.CrossroadsUrbanApts wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:32 am Kevin O'Neill has to be loving his current situation as THE power broker downtown.
Thank God the election is coming up! We just gotta make sure the right changes are made.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
KC seriously lagging in 5 plus units.... not a good look but could easily change.earthling wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:46 am ^Permit momentum slowed down for KC metro overall, not just KCMO. But still in top 25 for YTD. We may see a catchup if such stalled projects move forward.
May Metro Permits
https://www.census.gov/construction/bps ... 202205.xls
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
^For the month, not for the year to date. It's somewhat common to have a low month some months.
History of permits (click on 5+ tab)...
https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/buil ... y%2C_MO-KS
KCMO might consider matching Minneapolis incentives programs. They also have an affordable requirement but not as strict as KC's IIRC and they are significantly attracting development even though rents are not rising as much.
History of permits (click on 5+ tab)...
https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/buil ... y%2C_MO-KS
KCMO might consider matching Minneapolis incentives programs. They also have an affordable requirement but not as strict as KC's IIRC and they are significantly attracting development even though rents are not rising as much.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
This old rendering was the only one that was presented to the PIEA. I'm not sure if that is just a different side of the building than the above rendering, or a separate design. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up with considerable changes from either of these.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Permits and proposals are also not the same thingdaGOAT wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:02 pmKC seriously lagging in 5 plus units.... not a good look but could easily change.earthling wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:46 am ^Permit momentum slowed down for KC metro overall, not just KCMO. But still in top 25 for YTD. We may see a catchup if such stalled projects move forward.
May Metro Permits
https://www.census.gov/construction/bps ... 202205.xls
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Rezoning plan filed.
Total Units: 256
Description: Five story apartment building with one story podium parking garage with basement consisting of 256 apartment units and associated amenity areas
Total Units: 256
Description: Five story apartment building with one story podium parking garage with basement consisting of 256 apartment units and associated amenity areas
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Restaurant or stores on the ground floor?normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:14 pm Rezoning plan filed.
Total Units: 256
Description: Five story apartment building with one story podium parking garage with basement consisting of 256 apartment units and associated amenity areas
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Idk. TBH I think there is too big of a focus on ground floor retail. Should be retail OR walk up units not just retail.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:42 pmRestaurant or stores on the ground floor?normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:14 pm Rezoning plan filed.
Total Units: 256
Description: Five story apartment building with one story podium parking garage with basement consisting of 256 apartment units and associated amenity areas
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Retail makes more sense there and especially a TOD.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
I feel that’s location dependent as well. SC line it makes more sense for retail, Dev on side streets walk up units make sensenormalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:46 pmIdk. TBH I think there is too big of a focus on ground floor retail. Should be retail OR walk up units not just retail.AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:42 pmRestaurant or stores on the ground floor?normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:14 pm Rezoning plan filed.
Total Units: 256
Description: Five story apartment building with one story podium parking garage with basement consisting of 256 apartment units and associated amenity areas
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Agreed but current rule being floated is 50% of street frontage as retail. I think some kind of activation might be good but (A) there is a cost to it further diluting the benefit of incentivesr and (B)walk-up units that are rented out are better than empty retail stalls.Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:39 pmI feel that’s location dependent as well. SC line it makes more sense for retail, Dev on side streets walk up units make sensenormalthings wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:46 pmIdk. TBH I think there is too big of a focus on ground floor retail. Should be retail OR walk up units not just retail.
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
The plans uploaded to Compass reveal a horrendous ground floor. I'd say around 75% of frontage on 3rd is parking garage. Only the Grand side is decent. Doesn't appear to be any retail space either
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Re: 3rd & Grand to be redeveloped as TOD
Oh, it gets worse. Feel free to join in my mocking: https://twitter.com/bobspecht/status/15 ... 9423740928