Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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phuqueue wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:02 am
DColeKC wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:10 am
FangKC wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:57 am They better design the ballpark to be retrofitted and have the ability to enclose and air-condition it. I'm not liking this recent study on KC possibly having "feels like" temperatures of 125 degrees in 30 years. No one will sit outside in the summer watching a baseball game in those temperatures. Anything above 90 degrees would affect attendance.

12th Street was the entertainment district of Kansas City until the 1960s. During that era, there were 11 different theaters along 12th Street, eight others within a block, and four more within two blocks. It was also the epicenter for nightclubs in the City.
Wasn’t that study saying we could see a peak heat index of 125 in 30 years? I didn’t get the impression they were talking like that would be an average or anything.
125 doesn't have to be the average, if 125 is the peak then 105, 110, 115 are becoming much more common, and that is still pretty unbearable. Forget whether fans are willing to come out with a 115 degree heat index, it'll become dangerous for the players to even play the game.
Nature of the beast right. We live on a spinning and volatile rock. Seems like most climate change scientists predict at most an increase of 4 degrees to the average temps in 30 years. More mild winters, great! More Death Valley heat waves, fml.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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TheBigChuckbowski wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:06 am Surely I'm not the only one that thinks if you give a baseball a team a bunch of land around a stadium that they won't do anything but keep it parking forever, right?
Definitely a valid fear. Let’s just hope a few large parking garages are part of the final product.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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TheBigChuckbowski wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:06 am Surely I'm not the only one that thinks if you give a baseball a team a bunch of land around a stadium that they won't do anything but keep it parking forever, right?
It wouldn't be enough surface parking to really make a dent in their revenue versus actually developing it into an income stream. Sure they will keep some close in parking for staff/vip type but I'm guessing 100 at max.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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As one who has maybe conceded it's going to be EV so spent years building up the potential in my mind I will say if we don't focus on the pedestrian experience from the stadium along 12th (for example) to the more established current parts of downtown neighborhood it will feel isolated. Critical to success IMO.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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KCPowercat wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:08 am As one who has maybe conceded it's going to be EV so spent years building up the potential in my mind I will say if we don't focus on the pedestrian experience from the stadium along 12th (for example) to the more established current parts of downtown neighborhood it will feel isolated. Critical to success IMO.
Completely agree and I hate to be pessimistic about the EV location, but I just don't feel good about it at this point. There are so many additional things they have to get right using the EV location.

I just want to avoid the stadium island scenario at all costs.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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Hard for me to imagine it being isolated there. I've been to too many stadiums even more isolated when they first opened.

Not to mention how isolated it currently is.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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KCPowercat wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:36 am Hard for me to imagine it being isolated there. I've been to too many stadiums even more isolated when they first opened.

Not to mention how isolated it currently is.
Can't get any worse than it already is!
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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FangKC wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:57 am They better design the ballpark to be retrofitted and have the ability to enclose and air-condition it.
A fully enclosed stadium won't happen but to take a page out of soccer specific stadiums across the world, they could focus on making sure the fans are shade protected. The

In the future as technology improves, cooling elements can be added in some creative ways to keep fans and players safe.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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DColeKC wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:06 am
earthling wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:44 pm Is there any specific source that has confirmed a public vote would occur? The rumblings that I and a couple others here have heard earlier this year is that they intend to pursue mostly privately financed with some TIF and State aid, structured in a manner not to require a public vote. I highly doubt a public vote will pass with inflation and uncertainty. And no matter the economic situation, hard to imagine E Jack voting for it and probably not most of S Jack.
Believe this is still the plan and goal is to avoid putting it to a public vote. They’ve got a great amount of private investment so I’m optimistic they won’t hit a major roadblock.
Oh. Well if that’s the plan, then that means they’re gonna be able to move very fast. Like right after the season announce and get done by 2026 speed.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:25 pm
DColeKC wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:06 am
earthling wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:44 pm Is there any specific source that has confirmed a public vote would occur? The rumblings that I and a couple others here have heard earlier this year is that they intend to pursue mostly privately financed with some TIF and State aid, structured in a manner not to require a public vote. I highly doubt a public vote will pass with inflation and uncertainty. And no matter the economic situation, hard to imagine E Jack voting for it and probably not most of S Jack.
Believe this is still the plan and goal is to avoid putting it to a public vote. They’ve got a great amount of private investment so I’m optimistic they won’t hit a major roadblock.
Oh. Well if that’s the plan, then that means they’re gonna be able to move very fast. Like right after the season announce and get done by 2026 speed.
I don't see how 2026 is even a remote possibility. But it's a great date to shoot for so that maybe something will be in place by the time the lease is up.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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I just hope the Royals really follow through and build a new stadium downtown since Kansas City's corporations have abandoned it over the years.
It's a bit ironic that Sprint and Cerner are now gone now after their poor decisions to build suburban office parks.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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KCPowercat wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:42 am I mean if we tear down municipal and bartle and Marriott I think there is a chance.

Some on this board would be all for that level of teardown. Those buildings are old and dirty.
Assuming this comment from the Bartle thread is directed towards me (and it isn't sarcasm - I don't think it is), I think this is a misrepresentation of what I'm advocating for. I think I made it clear that I don't advocate tearing anything/everything in deference to a downtown stadium, and I don't think its an easy choice or one that should be taken lightly. The north crossroads site (from Grand to the Printing Plant) is a chance to align the stadium along the axis of the streetcar along with our greatest civic assets. I think this will encourage better development / better retail / better land usage along that axis as a stadium is an attraction on par with Union Station in terms of # of visitors.

Of that 4 block site, only about 15% of it is being used to any potential at all - the rest is surface parking or the empty printing press. Yes, it removes 1 very nice side of the street. But I think it elevates and enhances more of the downtown area then if the stadium's location is more isolated. If the stadium is directly east (and not inclusive of the printing press building) then about 50% of the land is used, although that drops the further east you take the stadium, but it begins to get more isolated again.

Its an oversimplification to say this (because the Grand block is much, much nicer), but I think downtown is better with the T-Mobile Center today than it would be with the Justrite Stamp building and Lil Jake's Eat It and Beat It.

Maybe I've got rose-colored glasses for the possibilities of the stadium, but I think some on here are overly deferential to to status quo. The usage of those buildings from north to south are vacant, dry cleaners, surface lot, 2 restaurants, vacant, strip club, restaurant, cocktails, event space, vacant, restaurant, restaurant, salon. In the last 20 years many businesses have come and gone on this block - but it's never taken off. This is the kind of block we want to be (and should be) filled with pedestrians, activity and life. But the Crossroads can't support that right now - its adding maybe a couple hundred residents a year right now which probably means it will take decades or more for things to materially improve here. Yes, this is the kind of block and buildings that we want downtown, but as it stands, the area has never been able to make this block much more than this. A stadium that attracts 2 million people downtown will help all the other blocks in the city - by gradually filling in surface lots and elevating the land and retail usages in the city. At the price of one very nice row of storefronts its a choice I'd be willing to make.
I'm not saying I'm right - there's plenty of valid counter arguments (i.e. why hasn't Sprint Center improved this block, small buildings are the lifeblood of the city, KCDowntown is an absolute monster). I just think the North Crossroads site is a good opportunity for the future of our city - please put it on the jail site though.

KCDowntown
Last edited by KCDowntown on Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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It wasn't directed at anybody specifically or a specific past convo.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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My pushback on that is would we be filling in surface lots, or would we be putting in a stadium and then pushing all of the surface lots back from the stadium?

Seems like if you own a surface lot in the crossroads, it would be pretty easy to sit on it and make some passive income from parking. All of those parking lots suddenly just got more valuable to keep as parking.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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KCDowntown wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:41 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:42 am I mean if we tear down municipal and bartle and Marriott I think there is a chance.

Some on this board would be all for that level of teardown. Those buildings are old and dirty.
Assuming this comment from the Bartle thread is directed towards me (and it isn't sarcasm - I don't think it is), I think this is a misrepresentation of what I'm advocating for. I think I made it clear that I don't advocate tearing anything/everything in deference to a downtown stadium, and I don't think its an easy choice or one that should be taken lightly. The north crossroads site (from Grand to the Printing Plant) is a chance to align the stadium along the axis of the streetcar along with our greatest civic assets. I think this will encourage better development / better retail / better land usage along that axis as a stadium is an attraction on par with Union Station in terms of # of visitors.

Of that 4 block site, only about 15% of it is being used to any potential at all - the rest is surface parking or the empty printing press. Yes, it removes 1 very nice side of the street. But I think it elevates and enhances more of the downtown area then if the stadium's location is more isolated. If the stadium is directly east (and not inclusive of the printing press building) then about 50% of the land is used, although that drops the further east you take the stadium, but it begins to get more isolated again.

Its an oversimplification to say this (because the Grand block is much, much nicer), but I think downtown is better with the T-Mobile Center today than it would be with the Justrite Stamp building and Lil Jake's Eat It and Beat It.

Maybe I've got rose-colored glasses for the possibilities of the stadium, but I think some on here are overly deferential to to status quo. The usage of those buildings from north to south are vacant, dry cleaners, surface lot, 2 restaurants, vacant, strip club, restaurant, cocktails, event space, vacant, restaurant, restaurant, salon. In the last 20 years many businesses have come and gone on this block - but it's never taken off. This is the kind of block we want to be (and should be) filled with pedestrians, activity and life. But the Crossroads can't support that right now - its adding maybe a couple hundred residents a year right now which probably means it will take decades or more for things to materially improve here. Yes, this is the kind of block and buildings that we want downtown, but as it stands, the area has never been able to make this block much more than this. A stadium that attracts 2 million people downtown will help all the other blocks in the city - by gradually filling in surface lots and elevating the land and retail usages in the city. At the price of one very nice row of storefronts its a choice I'd be willing to make.
I'm not saying I'm right - there's plenty of valid counter arguments (i.e. why hasn't Sprint Center improved this block, small buildings are the lifeblood of the city, KCDowntown is an absolute monster). I just think the North Crossroads site is a good opportunity for the future of our city - please put it on the jail site though.

KCDowntown
I agree, that block would be less disruptive, but as noted, I don't think it's big enough.

Every situation is about balance. How can we preserve the urban core while also making it better and more livable? Is the cost benefit worth it? For the East proposed site, I don't think the cost benefit favors the stadium in my opinion. There are too many challenges as well as too many useful existing buildings.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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I know there's been discussion on here about the direction the stadium faces. Does that matter if we have a retractable roof stadium, why? I'd still prefer a North Loop location with the Royals paying to remove the highway and integrate underground parking into that current land. Parking garages is the worst park of stadiums. If they could put the where the current highway is now with a park or other buildings on top, I think that would fully connect RM to DT, make parking easy and not make a huge isolation for the stadium from surrounding neighborhoods.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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The royals don't even want to pay for their own stadium. Don't think they're going to be up for taking out a highway.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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WoodDraw wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:25 pm The royals don't even want to pay for their own stadium. Don't think they're going to be up for taking out a highway.
They might if they got the land for underground parking and control rights to build on top of it. Sign over all the land in the North Loop swath with the only requirement being they must maintain the street grid on all property except the actual stadium.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 1:56 pm I know there's been discussion on here about the direction the stadium faces. Does that matter if we have a retractable roof stadium, why? I'd still prefer a North Loop location with the Royals paying to remove the highway and integrate underground parking into that current land. Parking garages is the worst park of stadiums. If they could put the where the current highway is now with a park or other buildings on top, I think that would fully connect RM to DT, make parking easy and not make a huge isolation for the stadium from surrounding neighborhoods.
Would rather have them go to the jail site and just cap the entire south loop out past Oak, even if it's just parking garages. I worry that if they were involved in north loop they'd do it all wrong or. half-job and permanently ruin our chances of connecting RM properly. City would do it better. Meanwhile, I do think they could cap the rest of the south loop with anything and it would be better than nothing.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by beautyfromashes »

AlkaliAxel wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:04 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 1:56 pm I know there's been discussion on here about the direction the stadium faces. Does that matter if we have a retractable roof stadium, why? I'd still prefer a North Loop location with the Royals paying to remove the highway and integrate underground parking into that current land. Parking garages is the worst park of stadiums. If they could put the where the current highway is now with a park or other buildings on top, I think that would fully connect RM to DT, make parking easy and not make a huge isolation for the stadium from surrounding neighborhoods.
Would rather have them go to the jail site and just cap the entire south loop out past Oak, even if it's just parking garages. I worry that if they were involved in north loop they'd do it all wrong or. half-job and permanently ruin our chances of connecting RM properly. City would do it better. Meanwhile, I do think they could cap the rest of the south loop with anything and it would be better than nothing.
No offense, but the jail site and Crossroads site seems like an, "I'm scared!" option. Both try to jam the stadium as close to existing amenities and activity as possible worrying that a DT stadium won't be a success at bringing people into a new area. A "bolt on" seems like a fail to me. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to change DT dramatically. South Loop should be decked on its own. If it requires a baseball stadium to make it happen, that's weak. Cordish and Lowes and developers should do it. We need to build something spectacular and think bigger.
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